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View Poll Results: Unkown User Group Applied to Users Files

Voters
7. You may not vote on this poll
  • I had this problem after an upgrade install

    4 57.14%
  • I didn't have this problem after an upgrade install

    2 28.57%
  • I had this problem after an archive and install with preserve user settings

    0 0%
  • I didn't have this problem after an archive and install with preserve user settings

    0 0%
  • I had this problem after an erase and install then migration from my Tiger partition

    1 14.29%
  • I didn't have this problem after an erase and install then migration from my Tiger partition

    0 0%
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Carlingford, Sydney
    Posts
    311

    Default Unknown Group Privaleges After Leopard Upgrades

    If you do an upgrade install or an archive and install with preserve user settings, or even an erase and install with immediate migration from your Tiger partition, you may have strange problems with a number of different things, due to the fact that group:username (GID 501, for the original first admin account) has been dropped, the admin user is now a member of group:staff (GID 20). But your original files will now show as belonging to group unknown), and, depending on what install method you followed, you yourself may be unknown.

    Below is an example screenshot from someone else with the same problem.


    I've read of hundreds of reports on Apple's discussion lists, and Googling reveals many hundreds if not thousands of similar problems depending on search criteria used.

    Despite this problem being known since Leopard was released there is still no solution and according to reports the upcoming 10.5.2 release is still not going to address this issue.

    The problems resulting from this screw-up are many and various, and new ones turn up every day in Apple Discussions. In my case, having done an upgrade install, I discovered that none of the files in my home directory that showed group unknown were being indexed by Spotlight. If you want to share a folder by altering the permissions you can't, and that the Finder crashes when you try--if you click the lock in GetInfo so you can change something, you need to click the + button, do so, but then the Finder crashes. New files get saved as group unknown. Some people report they have to enter their admin password to do anything with their own files, whether save or move or trash. Some programs announce that they are getting an error when attempting to write their preference file.

    I'd like to run a poll only for those who upgraded from Tiger (not those who did clean installs) to try and get an idea of the percentage of up-graders hit by this bug.
    Greg Sharp
    President/Webmaster
    Australian Mac Users Group (AUSMUG)

  2. #2

    Default

    This is a known bug.

    AFAIK there seems to be no pattern as to why it happens, but I am thinking it has to be related to third party apps installed.

    Trades: Clockwork, applecollector, Amzy, Brains, chris, samuelclarke, mrldigitalmedia
    Link: http://www.lifeinplasticpants.com/2003/07/12/index.html

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,895

    Default

    I followed these directions: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=307128

    Finder no longer crashes when I change permissions from the Get Info window.
    "The need is not for, say, half a million -inch drill bits. The need is that there are ten million -inch holes that need to be drilled." - Robert Noyce
    www.nickforge.com

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Carlingford, Sydney
    Posts
    311

    Default

    I don't think this is anyones fault but Apple. I've seen this bug on machines that had no 3rd party software installed (only OS + Apple Software) as well as machines with multiple 3rd party apps. It is related to changes Apple have made by dropping NetInfo for user management in favour of its new ACL system. The upgrade procedure does not handle these changes properly due to poorly written upgrade/migration scripts not properly taking these changes into account when they were written.

    Blaming 3rd party apps is just a cop out in my opinion. Apple should have done a much better job, should have openly admitted it was a problem and addressed it with a fix since many thousands of people have been affected.
    Greg Sharp
    President/Webmaster
    Australian Mac Users Group (AUSMUG)

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,834

    Default

    AUSMUG intresting now maybe this also explains the issue in disk utility ?

    I have had 5 or 6 tickets open from the launch day of Leopard.

    There was one fix put out but it never made a change for me.

    Every few weeks someone at ADC updates some jibber jabber but no indications to me any of my tickets will be addressed in 10.5.2

    My thought to fix the problem is wipe my drive & install Leopard from the ground up. But then I also say none of these issues have affected my use yet ?

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    4,895

    Default

    Have either of you tried the link I posted? Does that not solve the problem?
    "The need is not for, say, half a million -inch drill bits. The need is that there are ten million -inch holes that need to be drilled." - Robert Noyce
    www.nickforge.com

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Carlingford, Sydney
    Posts
    311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by forgie View Post
    I followed these directions: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=307128

    Finder no longer crashes when I change permissions from the Get Info window.
    Thanks Forgie, this got rid of the unknown user group and stops the finder crashing. That said it is only a quick fix and certainly doesn't fix permissions properly. Unfortunately rather than addressing the real issues quick fixes and cover ups seem to be the order of the day.

    For example, my "Users" Folder shows from top to bottom system - Read & Write, admin - Read only & everyone - Read only.

    My Home Folder called "gregsharp" and files inside it at the top level + the following folders (Applications,Public, Sites & Subversion) show, gregsharp (Me) - Read & Write, _gregsharp - Read only & everyone - Read only

    All other top level folders inside my Home folder show just gregsharp (Me) - Read & Write and everyone - No Access (there is no Group listing. Why only 2 listings ?)

    Strangely all the files inside phpMyAdmin folder, which is inside my Sites folder are listed as everyone - Custom, gregsharp (Me) - Read & Write, _gregsharp - Read only & everyone - Read only (Why are there 4 listings?)

    I am sure that on a completely clean install of Leopard file permissions would be different to what I have now. I would be interested to find out what somebody with a clean install has listed for their folders if only to prove I'm not imagining a non existing problem.
    Greg Sharp
    President/Webmaster
    Australian Mac Users Group (AUSMUG)

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,834

    Default

    Forgie yes that was one idea sent to me by ADC.

    But having so many files on my system & growing that disk utilty cant fix really needs to be addressed properly. There will come a point where things will stop. Due to the fact I am not these other users. And stuff keeps multplying under there accounts.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    5,960

    Default

    I just did a fresh install on the wifes MacBook, then moved back application data/prefs by hand. So can't say if the upgrade done would have resulted in the problem being reported by thousands.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Carlingford, Sydney
    Posts
    311

    Default

    Another thing that would be interesting to check for differences between those that upgraded versus those that did a clean install is the User ID and Group ID of your Admin account. To check these values open Accounts in System Preferences. Click the lock and supply credentials. Hover mouse over Admin Account name and Option Click. You will now see an Advanced option that you should select.

    This will display the info I am referring to. Mine shows User ID 501 and Group ID 501.

    Do those with clean installs of Leopard have the same settings ?
    Greg Sharp
    President/Webmaster
    Australian Mac Users Group (AUSMUG)

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