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View Full Version : Apple Display Vs Other LCD's



estoyloco
2nd August 2004, 03:05 PM
Hey, as some of you may know(or will know now) i am planning on getting a G5 with a display. But my plans for an apple display were hindered when compnow ran out of 15 or so 20" displays that they had on sale fr $1799 - $1588 EDU.... since then i have been thinking that i could save a bunch of cash and use that to fund my ipod if i got a NON Apple display, say an LG 19" LCD currently $899 at officeworks...

Basically if i go that way i will have enough left over for a 40GB ipod...

Anyways that aside...my questions are....

1) what features should i look for in the display? whats a minimum response rate..
keep in mind im not a gamer at all.. but i dont want any ghosting while im doing Final Cut work or anyhting...

2) do the plugs they come with, plug strait into G5's generally? do they use DVI?

3) Does anyone have experience with a 3rdparty LCD and an apple product??i would like to hear from anyone with a 19" model in particular...

any brands you would recomend ????....

also i know this might seem strange but is the apple 17" LCD really closer to a 19" normal brand LCD??? do they measure it differently??? cos they are huge..they seem the same size as teh phillips 19" LCD's??? so if anyone has some kind of insight into that... much appreciated...

Thanks..
Any feedback is appreciated.....as always...but yeah someone with experience with these items inparticular would be great!

sillydog701
2nd August 2004, 03:57 PM
I have a Cinema Display 20" (previous generation with ADC) and Diamond View, 17" (LCD, DVI).

Both are good displays. I used to put them side-by-side to have extended desktop, but found that my *real* desktop is too small, so I take out the Diamond View 17" LCD.

Quasar
2nd August 2004, 04:15 PM
Samsung might be worth a look given their zero-dead-pixel policy.

As for connections, my understanding is that most PC LCD displays have both DVI and VGA.

gelfie
2nd August 2004, 05:20 PM
I can highly recommend Samsung displays. I currently have one of their 15" LCD's, and shortly will be looking to upgrade to either their 172X 17" 12ms response display, or their 173P 25ms response display which has a 178/178 viewing angle.

Those are essentially the two things to look for in an LCD. Viewing angle and response time. Probably in that order (In my opinion). The 12ms 172X only has a 160 degree horizontal viewing angle and a 140 degree vertical angle. So, despite its thinner bezel and faster response, I'm currently leaning toward the 173P.

Most displays now have both an analog VGA connector and a DVI connector. But just read the specs to make sure, otherwise you might end up with one or the other.

Also, be wary of warranty. Samsung offer 3 year warranty on their displays and their backlights (though the backlights now seem to have an "or 20,000 hours" addition). Some manufacturers only offer one year on the backlight.

Samsung also have a 7 day no-dead-pixel warranty, where you can have the display replaced if you find any dead pixels in the first week. (How was that for a redundant explanation?)

estoyloco
2nd August 2004, 08:39 PM
Gelfie.. i didnt know that about the viewing angle as i see alot of Apple displas have 160 and 160 viewing... apple displays have 40ms response..... and the FORMAC ones have 160 and 160 distortion free with 10-25ms.... so i guess i wouldnt want anything less than 160 and 25ms response time and 50,000 hours minimum....

I dont find the video playback that great on apple displays... but i dont care about that too much... as long as third party LCD's work as good and last as long them im sold..

cos i have friends who have had the 17"Appel Displays LCD's for years and there are no dead pixel, no problems etc.. so to me thats would be worth the extra $'s for the no fuss....

But yeah... i would definately go with one that has MINIMUM 3 year warranty like FORMAC, SAMSUNG etc.....

Tell me tho whats the deal with the viewing angle.does it just mean that its clearer from more areas/angles/views when facing the LCD... ?

i like the sounds of the no dead pixel policy... if i get dead pixels in the future, whats there minimum dead pixel policy????

iWebrat
2nd August 2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by gelfie@Aug 2 2004, 05:20 PM
So, despite its thinner bezel and faster response, I'm currently leaning toward the 173P.
If you're planning to use the LCD with your Mac, it's probably best to stay on the safe side and avoid the 173P. If I recall correctly, this display has no buttons and all monitor adjustments are done via specific Samsung software which is for Windows only.

estoyloco
2nd August 2004, 09:55 PM
Hey thats an awesome point that i never would have thought of....so i should lookout for that

What do you use LCD wise ? .. i see u have a G5..

iWebrat
2nd August 2004, 10:01 PM
I actually don't have an LCD yet, my poor G5 is stuck with the bland old beige Gateway VX920 monitor which I got from Gateway when they had that "we're getting out of here" sale.

I&#39;m planning on getting a Samsung 172X (although I was worred because I heard rumours that this wasn&#39;t Mac compatible, but there&#39;s a thread on Whirlpool which seems to squish that rumour). Previously I had looked at the Samsung 172T which is also a very nice display, the 172X&#39;s predecessor. It has a <25ms panel and a slightly wider bezel, it&#39;s also cheaper than the 172X if you can find them around.

gelfie
2nd August 2004, 10:50 PM
Tell me tho whats the deal with the viewing angle.does it just mean that its clearer from more areas/angles/views when facing the LCD... ?


Yeah basically. With LCD&#39;s if you view them off centre then they have a tendency to change brightness/contrast and even color in some cases. Displays with wide viewing angles can be viewed from the side without these effects.


i like the sounds of the no dead pixel policy... if i get dead pixels in the future, whats there minimum dead pixel policy????


Dead pixels are born with the display. Basically there are millions of transistors that make the display work, and if some are a bit iffy then you get pixels that are stuck on, or stuck off. They don&#39;t occur over time. Although some can be hard to spot. My first Apple laptop had four dead pixels, although when I looked at it in the shop I couldn&#39;t see any. They ended up being light colored ones hidden in the menu bar and control-strip so blended in.



If you&#39;re planning to use the LCD with your Mac, it&#39;s probably best to stay on the safe side and avoid the 173P. If I recall correctly, this display has no buttons and all monitor adjustments are done via specific Samsung software which is for Windows only.

Actually, looking at the Samsung product page, it lists X for Mac compatability. Now, weather this means "OS X" or just plain "Nup&#33;" I&#39;m not sure. But here is the link in case anyone wants a shot at working that out.

Samsung 173P Specifications (http://www.samsung.com/au/products/monitors/tft/173p.asp?page=Specifications)

Gelfie

estoyloco
3rd August 2004, 12:44 PM
Ok, thanks again Gelfie....

It seems that Samsung seem to be the most popular around here.... i guess i should jus go down to officeworks or harvey norman and compare... they just dont offer many (id any) 19" displays at the moment...

If anyone else has some experience please add&#33; or any other point... cos all the points gathered so far i wouldnt have even thought of&#33; so the replies have all been so inciteful&#33;

Is there a minimum contrast ratio i should look at? min brightness NITS?

Also in america all the hype seems to be about DELL LCD&#39;s... does anyone know where to get them from cos i have had a look on DELL.COM.AU and cant find them.. any resellers on the net or physical outlets in melbourne???anywhere??? cheers&#33; again&#33;

decryption
3rd August 2004, 02:33 PM
If you want the best price on the Samsung 172X, go to MSY, they have it for &#036;765, and are pretty much *always* the lowest price on any item. (http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf)
Or if you want get it from Officeworks/Harvey Norman, and tell them MSY have it cheaper, and they&#39;ll match the price for you :)

BigX
3rd August 2004, 04:32 PM
BenQ FP992 19"

I think it&#39;s good quality and very crisp... but I was going for size over everything else when I purchase it 6 months ago.

Have a look >> http://www.benq.com.au/HomeShowProduct.asp?prodID=239

Paul

larfinboy
4th August 2004, 06:07 PM
Like many of the other responses, I can recommend the Samsung LCDs.
The Samsung monitors, in my opinion, have the best styling of the generic monitors on the market at an affordable price. The screen quality is excellent and my overall experience has been good.

To correct a previous post, the Apple LCDs have a response time of 16ms and not 40ms. This is on par with the Samsung 172x which is also DVI and comes high recommended from may PC reviewers. APC voted it an award for best monitor in it&#39;s class.

I have two 173V monitors connected to my G5. This gives me a desktop 2560 x 1024. For this setup I had to purchase a Griffin ADC to VGA adapter since the Samsung 173V is Value model and only has analog inputs.

This configuration give plenty of space to read doco or web pages while I&#39;m working on the other monitor. I don&#39;t do much in the way of tool palettes on the second monitor while having my workspace or canvas on the main screen.

Total cost of the exercise: &#036;1251.85

1st Samsung 173V &#036;598 from a friend at wholesale pricing
2nd Samsung 173V &#036;626 from Dick Smith, floor stock
Griffin ADC to VGA &#036;27.85 bought second hand from eBay

I&#39;d always wanted a dual head rig and liked the fact the Mac can do this seamlessly. So this exercise was to see if the dual head solution really is workable. I think dual head is somewhat overrated.
And now one of the screens has gone to my mum with a PM G4,
her first computer B)

The upshot is that I&#39;m now in the market for a 20" or 23" Alu Apple LCD.


The new Apple LCD is something very special. :rolleyes:

estoyloco
4th August 2004, 06:47 PM
hmmm that 17" dual monitor setup sounds pretty cool, seing as im planning on spending around &#036;900-&#036;950 for a 19"... but i find the dual monitor setup confusing... i guess icould getused to it... maybe i should look into that&#33; iftis only &#036;1-200 more...i can get 17" LCD&#39;s for around &#036;500 each... not sure if they were the samsung ones listed here.. also there is a hyundai model i can get for &#036;500 too..

ALSO the BenQ monitor seems to have 1200x1240 pixels according to their wesite.. is this right??? BigX?

Thanks for the feedback... im glad im lookign at all my options...

Please post anything else...

With the dual monitor setup what is it that i need to buy tomake them work with my G5 assuming theyare both DVI????

Is the ports on the G5 = 1x DVI and 1xADC??? if so do apple ship a DVI to ADCconnector..

Cheers

larfinboy
5th August 2004, 10:12 AM
Dr. Bott&#39;s make a &#39;DVI Extractor II for ADC&#39; that will give you a DVI connector from an ADC connector. The RRP on this adapter is &#036;90.
A quick Google ™ search found that MacMall have them for &#036;60.

Dr. Bott&#39;s also do a &#39;VGA Extractor for ADC&#39; which is equivalent to the Griffin ADC to VGA adapter, which is fine for analogue VGA LCD input.

Since my setup uses two analogue DB15 connectors, I use the Griffin ADC to VGA adapter and the Apple supplied DVI to VGA.
The ADC port on the Radeon is the primary port by default when to monitors are connected. This can be changed of course.

estoyloco
5th August 2004, 04:51 PM
Nice... i just looked at apple.com.au and all i would need is an ADC to DVI like stated.

So i guess it would cost me &#036;500 x2(17"LCD&#39;s) + &#036;60(ADC) =&#036;1060

Sounds better than &#036;900-&#036;950 for a 19"....

Now just a few questions.. hopefully someone can answer them:

1) will the Dual monitor setup slow down the computer? slow down the graphics card?

2) Could i have a quick poll of what people would do and why... choices being 19" LCD for &#036;900 - &#036;950 or Dual 17" setup for &#036;1060. If anyone with experience can let me know why/what they did, how it worked well for them, what type of activities..

Any advatanges specific to video editing that one could think of??? regaurding either setup..

any advantages inany areas???

Cheers

gelfie
5th August 2004, 06:52 PM
Could i have a quick poll of what people would do and why... choices being 19" LCD for &#036;900 - &#036;950 or Dual 17" setup for &#036;1060. If anyone with experience can let me know why/what they did, how it worked well for them, what type of activities..

I use two displays at the moment on the mac both are 1024*768 and on the pc one is 1280*1024 and the other 1024*768. It doesn&#39;t slow anything down appreciatively. Except screen savers running on both screens at once, or other heavy video like that (i.e playing a game with video mirroring on).

As for which I&#39;d choose. If the 19" display had 1600*1200 resolution, I&#39;d probably buy that. But, most of them have the same resolution as the 17" displays (1280*1024) so you&#39;re really not gaining anything.

Dual displays do give you more real estate, however there is a big area in the middle that is often wasted. Because you won&#39;t have a window straddling the two displays (it&#39;s just annoying&#33;). So you tend to put entire windows on either one or the other display. A single large display does not have that problem.

But anyway. Assuming the 19" is 1280*1024 resolution. I would recommend buying two 17" displays instead.

larfinboy
6th August 2004, 09:04 AM
gelfie has made a couple of very valid points.
Most 19" LCD monitors have the same resolution as a 17", so you are only getting bigger fonts. I find the 17" at 1280x1024 quite acceptable.
I have a Sony G420 19" CRT monitor on my PC and run this at 1280x1024. It was a viewable area of 18" and there is very little difference between this and the 17" LCD.

There is a portion of space on your virtual desktop between the two screens that is generally not used. And this is one of the main reasons I&#39;m now looking at a larger LCD which is wide screen. My main focus is video editing and programming, which are somewhat conflicting is this area. Video editing really needs the most real estate on a single display, but programming is quite suited to have docs, help and other code segments on a second display.

It all depends on your usage. I nearly always have the G5 and a PC running at the same time since I&#39;m still migration functionality from PC to Mac.
The dual head setup is almost like running two machines, especially since the G5 is fast enough to run lots of applications at the same time.

So it&#39;s down to usage and personal preference. I would recommend getting the G5 and beg or borrow two monitor, what ever you can, for a week and see how you go.


Nice... i just looked at apple.com.au and all i would need is an ADC to DVI like stated.

So i guess it would cost me &#036;500 x2(17"LCD&#39;s) + &#036;60(ADC) =&#036;1060


One thing to comment on here, you won&#39;t get a DVI LCD monitor for &#036;500.
DVI is not standard on all LCD monitors, so the lower end models, like my Samsung 173V and it&#39;s replacement, the 710V, only have VGA.

estoyloco
6th August 2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by larfinboy@Aug 6 2004, 09:04 AM


One thing to comment on here, you won&#39;t get a DVI LCD monitor for &#036;500.
DVI is not standard on all LCD monitors, so the lower end models, like my Samsung 173V and it&#39;s replacement, the 710V, only have VGA.
Yeah your right.. i just emailed the guy....

Oh well back to thedrawing board..