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mediasorcerer
16th November 2010, 04:44 PM
when is apple going to enable trim support for ssd,s,?i mean come on,they are selling mba,s with ssd,s and theres no trim support,frigging rude,!!!!!btw anyone got a new mba?how long till hdrive degradation,BAD APPLE!!!!
ps,anyone got any tweaks or tips for ssd,s and osx, i know its prudent to disable hdrive sleep in sys prefs[energy saver]
there is also enabling no access time [noatime] terminal]anyone know how to do it?:laughing::mad::mad::mad:

xerodude
16th November 2010, 06:55 PM
Get a Sandforce controller SSD. The firmware takes care of things for you.

glacierdave
17th November 2010, 07:04 AM
There are some indications that HFS+ handles the basic issues that require trim better than NTFS and, as a result, direct trim support isn't as critical an issue.

Have a read of this:

Mac SSD performance and TRIM in OSX | bit-tech.net (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/1)

mac_man_luke
17th November 2010, 07:14 AM
Iv been running an SSD for over 12 months now and really i have not noticed any performance degradation at all...

Brains
17th November 2010, 10:59 AM
luke, it's not performance degradation that is the problem -- it's the fact that every single write cycle slowly kills an SSD due to heat. TRIM is meant to help that by storing "consecutive" blocks as far apart from each other as possible to reduce spot-heating & thermal damage.

ipwn
17th November 2010, 01:43 PM
I just bought a SSD for my MacBook Pro and this article was very usefull in explaining TRIM for OSX

Does OS X need TRIM? | bit-tech.net (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/7)

I dont believe OSX needs "trim" as long as it is a Sandforce controller you will be fine,
OSX is very efficient in the way it handles data.


EDIT:
OOPS repost :( beaten too it.

~Coxy
17th November 2010, 04:07 PM
luke, it's not performance degradation that is the problem -- it's the fact that every single write cycle slowly kills an SSD due to heat. TRIM is meant to help that by storing "consecutive" blocks as far apart from each other as possible to reduce spot-heating & thermal damage.

That's wear-levelling.

TRIM enables the OS to tell the SSD that you have deleted a file, thus the SSD can mark the block on the disk as able to be reset to a clean slate at some point when the disk is otherwise idle.

This is important because writing to a clean block is quite fast, but writing to a used block is quite slow. Without TRIM, as the disk gets 'full' from day to day use (with wear levelling) eventually no blocks will be left clean.

basseyy
17th November 2010, 05:18 PM
[QUOTE=ipwn;1055652]I just bought a SSD for my MacBook Pro and this article was very usefull in explaining TRIM for OSX

Does OS X need TRIM? | bit-tech.net (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/7)

I dont believe OSX needs "trim" as long as it is a Sandforce controller you will be fine,
OSX is very efficient in the way it handles data.

where do you find those sandforce controllers? can they be added to the macbook airs?

Steeley
17th November 2010, 05:48 PM
[QUOTE=ipwn;1055652]I just bought a SSD for my MacBook Pro and this article was very usefull in explaining TRIM for OSX

Does OS X need TRIM? | bit-tech.net (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/apple/2010/07/01/mac-ssd-performance-trim-in-osx/7)

I dont believe OSX needs "trim" as long as it is a Sandforce controller you will be fine,
OSX is very efficient in the way it handles data.

where do you find those sandforce controllers? can they be added to the macbook airs?

I know that the OCZ Vertex 2 has the sandforce controller built in

bennyling
17th November 2010, 05:54 PM
You can't "add" a SandForce controller to anything, it comes with your SSD.

I guess the advice is to buy an SSD with the SandForce controller. Such a short list...

ipwn
17th November 2010, 06:12 PM
Owc have good drives with sandforce

Macsales.com

basseyy
18th November 2010, 06:08 PM
thanks guys..oh one extra question...does the new macbook airs have the sandforce controller on board?

bennyling
18th November 2010, 07:27 PM
thanks guys..oh one extra question...does the new macbook airs have the sandforce controller on board?

Nope.

It's some Toshiba monstrosity, but that said performance is pretty decent.

Madivad
5th February 2011, 12:51 PM
Nope.

It's some Toshiba monstrosity, but that said performance is pretty decent.

What? Apple is selling an inferior product? Bad Apple.. Bad Apple ;-)

WhyNotKenny
7th February 2011, 08:58 AM
Anybody know of what AppleCare will cover in three years' time with an SSD??

i.e. I suppose if the SSD dies, will probably have to be replaced, but how do you go about proving performance degradation, and whether that is grounds for AppleCare....

If SSDs are covered by AppleCare, is it worth tweaking the OS to improve life?? or just smashing it for all its worth within the three years to get it replaced...

*just thoughts* :slant:


EDIT: Just read through the BitTech Articles - sounds promising....

~Coxy
7th February 2011, 04:12 PM
Unfortunately, that bittech article is meaningless for two reasons:
-the SSD they tested is a crap OEM samsung that is slow even when new
-they overwrote the whole disk with zeroes in a misguided attempt to have a "clean slate". This is actually the worst thing to do for a SSD because every block is now slower (until the disk is TRIMmed.)

AppleCare will not cover performance degradation over time.
However, you can perform an ATA reset by booting off a utility CD to wipe the drive and restore performance.

Stez
7th February 2011, 04:18 PM
So if I format my OS X completely and start again it'll be like using TRIM? Or is it something that only the operating system can do?

I'm hoping Lion will have TRIM support, IMO I think it'll be too late to add in the next OS.

xerodude
28th March 2011, 10:52 AM
FYI....

SSD TRIM support for OSX 10.6.7.

groths.org Blog Archive TRIM Enabler for Mac (http://www.groths.org/?p=308)

mitty
28th March 2011, 05:19 PM
Anyone gonna try? I just got the OCZ 120GB Vertex 2. I guess worse case scenario I can just reinstall (which I'm kind of thinking of doing anyway).

Do I even need to? Conflicting reports say that because of the Sandforce controller I don't really need TRIM anyway.

EDIT okay, stuff it, applied the patch. So far seems to be working fine. If I have problems I'll let you know.

https://img.skitch.com/20110328-nhf7hnpgmq51eugaw2nsfgt92i.preview.jpg (https://skitch.com/mitty/rs9ys/macbook-pro)Click for large view (https://skitch.com/mitty/rs9ys/macbook-pro) - Uploaded with Skitch (http://skitch.com)

xerodude
28th March 2011, 05:30 PM
I installed it, without a hassle. System profiler reports TRIM enabled.

It maybe my imagination, but the MBPro seems faster.........

Steeley
28th March 2011, 05:34 PM
I applied the patch on the same drive as mitty and it's doing nothing. You guys running 64-bit kernel? Would that even have anything to do with it?

mitty
28th March 2011, 06:06 PM
^No idea. I'm just running snow leopard 10.6.7. I've done nothing special apart from install the patch. Check System Profiler... does it say "Yes" next to "TRIM Support" like the screenshot I posted above?

I've noticed zero difference in speed or anything else really. If all it does is prolong the life of the drive well I guess that's a good thing.

Vojtin
28th March 2011, 08:06 PM
MacBook 1.1 SSD OCZ Vertex 2 64GB patch works (TRIM enabled), longer boot.

beattz
28th March 2011, 10:47 PM
The patch successfully enabled TRIM on my MacBook Pro 2,1 with aftermarket 256 GB Samsung SSD.

The initial boot phase (pre login screen) is taking longer than it used to for me also.

I ran Xbench before and after enabling TRIM. I'm seeing a doubling in performance for Sequential Uncached Writes (both 4K and 256K blocks), modest improvement in Random Uncached Reads (256K blocks) and everything else is about the same.

I have not subsequently performed "Erase Free Space". I don't think it would be very effective because I recently deleted about 100GB worth of data when transitioning to a new MBP.

The_Hawk
29th March 2011, 12:36 PM
Just enabled the patch and it hasn't immediately caught fire...

Will see how things travel from here on out :)

mcargy08
12th April 2011, 12:11 PM
enabled mine and noticed it boots faster than when TRIM wasnt enabled

The_Hawk
12th April 2011, 04:15 PM
I'm having random hangs, although I don't know if it has anything to do with TRIM or the SSD... or even just 10.6.7 since it's after this that I have noticed this behavior.

Auto sleep is turned off.
My screen is set to go dark after a period of time.
Sleep by shutting the lid works fine.

It seems that if I just leave it sitting for a long while it won't come out of what should just be a black screen. No idea why.
If I leave Outlook, Adium and Tweetdeck running this problem doesn't seem to exist. It's like the computer gives up if it gets bored but otherwise works a treat.

So my work around (which is just about the normal operating condition anyway) means it's rarely an issue, still, something I thought I would mention.