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Geoff3DMN
6th March 2010, 10:59 AM
Welcome to 1984...

Teen Nathan Wilkie arrested for playing 'offensive' rap music from car | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/weird-true-freaky/teen-nathan-wilkie-arrested-for-playing-offensive-rap-music-from-car/story-e6frflri-1225837535956?from=igoogle+gadget+compact+news_rss )

Wonderful society we're making here :(

MrJesseRoss
6th March 2010, 11:00 AM
I'm just thankful it didn't happen in SA for once.

Renoman
6th March 2010, 11:05 AM
Ha ha. He probably really got arrested for mouthing off to the coppers! That and looking like a tosser...

If he had been sitting in his car yelling such shit, it wouldn't be on the news - he would have rightly told to shut up as well.

I struggle to see the problem - its clearly offensive, he was responsible for it and in this case mouthed off to cops who told him to shut up!

You're allowed to do all sorts of unpleasant things at home between consenting adults as it were, that would get you arrested in public. This is just another one...

Geoff3DMN
6th March 2010, 11:17 AM
I struggle to see the problem - its clearly offensive, he was responsible for it

In your opinion it's offensive I get that.

In the opinion of other people the 'Piss Christ' painting was offensive and yet action demanded by some groups didn't happen and the painting stayed.

In the opinion of yet another group of people the work of photgrapher Bill Henson was offensive, and yet later they declined to press charges.


Offense is a personal opinion and not a black and white thing.

My concern is that our society seems to be heading further and further away from being an inclusive (give people the benefit of the doubt) one to a exclusive (take action and see what happens) one and that's a bad thing in my book.

Lutze
6th March 2010, 11:20 AM
I hope the cops win this one.

The rappers defence of "I know what I mean, and he knows what I mean and that's all that matters" is utter bull shit. Sitting outside a supermarket blaring music that probably has a "explicit lyrics" sticker on it is reprehensible.

The shops are not meant to sell it to kids, but this kid was forcing it on everyone that was near his car... not cool, to cap that - if you give a copper cheek then I think they should have a right to give you a poke with a cattle prod... ;)

ClockWork
6th March 2010, 11:23 AM
These azzholes are all around me.

I believe they think they're sharing the goodness of their fine taste in music with everyone, by having all the windows open... yes... the back windows also - and the volume cranked up to 11, and when they come to a seven minute traffic light, one could say it's noise pollution.

You know... Muthar Fuckar Muthar Fuckar Muthar Fuckar Muthar Fuckar - for 7 minutes in your ear, and in everyone elses ears.

The suspended belief that no one else exists.

The content is pure crap - that's not my beef though. It's the freak out volume!

'Member when Griffin were selling those devices for iPods where you could plug a wireless receiver into your car radio and tune it to 82FM (or something like that) and the toons on your iPod would come out your speakers?

My fantasy was that a crafty and illegal product would emerge that allowed one to transmit that wireless signal into the car next to yours, so that Muthar Fuckar would suddenly switch over to Beethoven's 9th at full volume.

decryption
6th March 2010, 11:25 AM
I reckon this wanker was probably arrested for just being a turd, not necessarily the music. I quite enjoy "offensive rap" music but if you had *any* sort of music cranked up in a supermarket car park, you're being rude, even if it was something morally acceptable by the mainstream, it'd still be something you don't want blasting out of some bogan's car in the supermarket whilst you're trying to do your shopping.

All the police had to do was tell him "hey, the music is loud, turn it down or I'll book ya for noise pollution" - my bet is that the kid got angry and refused, so the police upped the ante by booking him for something more serious.

Geoff3DMN
6th March 2010, 11:26 AM
The content is pure crap - that's not my beef though. It's the freak out volume!


I don't have a problem with the police booking people for excessive volume but that is NOT what happened here.

The police booked him for offensive 'music'.

Geoff3DMN
6th March 2010, 11:27 AM
if you had *any* sort of music cranked up in a supermarket car park, you're being rude.

I totally agree!

So book him with excessive noise.

Since the cops did not do so then I can only assume that the volume was not excessive and it was the content that got him booked (as stated), and THAT sets a bad precedent.

Lutze
6th March 2010, 11:32 AM
I totally agree!

So book him with excessive noise.

Since the cops did not do so then I can only assume that the volume was not excessive and it was the content that got him booked (as stated), and THAT sets a bad precedent.

Okay... so you think it would be okay for him to have hardcore, but legal, pornography playing on twin dvd screens in the back of his car - with the audio on that cranked up?

The content also has a bearing on the case.

Geoff3DMN
6th March 2010, 11:39 AM
Okay... so you think it would be okay for him to have hardcore, but legal, pornography playing on twin dvd screens in the back of his car - with the audio on that cranked up?

The content also has a bearing on the case.

Of course the content has a bearing on the case.

If the content was against the law then he could have and should have been charged as a result of that content.

If the content was of such as type that it was of a classification 'Rated R' then it should be restricted to non public areas.

However it that content isn't of a restricted classification, it is generally available to purchase over the counter by anyone of any age.

That inherantly implies that it is suitable for public consumption.

If people believe that is not in fact the case then the classification system needs to be updated instead of what's happened here.

ClockWork
6th March 2010, 11:48 AM
Snip from article:


"The end result is he has been served a summons for offensive behaviour for playing your CD, which they said was too loud and the lyrics offensive, especially to women."My point is, the ... young boys... who play this stuff, always have it cranked up. It's either all or nothing.

But let's take it from the artistic point of view.
My next door neighbours who are in their 20's think it's okay to play Metallica at full volume, any time they want, regardless of the protests made by 50 other people, on the basis that it's their player, their music and they'd never do it after 8:30 pm.

So... what if I decided that a soundtrack of... let's say - full on machine gun fire for 2 hours at full volume was to me at least, pleasing and artful, and applied the same rules as my Metallica kids next door?

Geoff3DMN
6th March 2010, 11:51 AM
My point is, the ... young boys... who play this stuff, always have it cranked up. It's either all or nothing.

Maybe that's true, probably it's true.

So lets assume it's true.

Why didn't the cops charge him with excessive noise?

Why charge him with 'offensive' content?

ClockWork
6th March 2010, 11:51 AM
Two birds. One stone. :)

YouTube - Kid Selzy - "KNOW 1" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX960ky2emQ)

Now crank up your volumes, folks and arrive at your decisions.

glacierdave
6th March 2010, 12:19 PM
What's reported is almost certainly not the whole story - it almost never is.

What really happened may not even come out in court.

Leaving that aside, my thought is that everyone is welcome to their own level of "this is offensive". When it impacts on the general public then differing rules may apply. For those who hold up the photography of Bill Henson or the humour of, say, Kevin Bloody Wilson - these largely happen in a semi-public setting. The same could be said for attending a concert by Kid Selzy.

By that I mean that you'll know what's going on but in order to be present you'll have to pay money to get in for the show. If you pay money just to get in so you can decry the offensive nature of whatever then I feel sorry for you.

In this case, though, casual passers-by didn't really get to make that choice and, perhaps, this is the crux of the issue.

MrJesseRoss
6th March 2010, 12:35 PM
What gets me is that they're making statements like "It's not illegal to have your windows down or to buy a CD", when he was arrested for "offensive behaviour for playing [the] CD, which they said was too loud and the lyrics offensive, especially to women". Those are two completely different things. When music with that kind of lyrical content is played in public it can be seen as offensive to many people, and that's why the police took action.

I put this in the same category as kids hanging around shopping malls, yelling and swearing and generally being antisocial. People have the right to not have that shoved in their face when they're out shopping, public place or not.

marc
6th March 2010, 12:41 PM
I reckon this wanker was probably arrested for just being a turd, not necessarily the music.

+1

Loud music in a very public place + kid-friendly area + left the car running with music on + talking back to the cops and being a smart-arse = get pinged for whatever they can charge you with.

I don't really feel sorry for the kid.


Why didn't the cops charge him with excessive noise?

Why charge him with 'offensive' content?

Maybe they felt they had a stronger case with the content angle, or maybe they made a mistake and should have charged him with noise pollution (or whatever the related charge is).


I put this in the same category as kids hanging around shopping malls, yelling and swearing and generally being antisocial. People have the right to not have that shoved in their face when they're out shopping, public place or not.

Yep. It's a fine line, but I do think the police do need laws that let them fine/charge anti-social behaviour. Anti-solical = stuff that most people would consider a big deal, not just extremist nut-jobs. Stuff like public urination, vomiting, yelling and swearing, spitting etc. Public spaces do need different laws to private spaces, in my opinion.

MrJesseRoss
6th March 2010, 01:00 PM
Yep. It's a fine line, but I do think the police do need laws that let them fine/charge anti-social behaviour. Anti-solical = stuff that most people would consider a big deal, not just extremist nut-jobs. Stuff like public urination, vomiting, yelling and swearing, spitting etc. Public spaces do need different laws to private spaces, in my opinion.

Personally, I'd love for action to be taken against people spitting in public. It's an absolutely vile thing to see.

MissionMan
6th March 2010, 01:32 PM
I don't see the issue. Publicly offensive lyrics that were clearly being played loud enough for the cops to hear.

There are people with little kids around that have to listen to the crap.

The_Hawk
6th March 2010, 01:36 PM
Being a tool to the cops isn't the best of options at any time, is it really so hard to understand when a uniformed officer asks you to turn it down you should turn it down...???

soulman
6th March 2010, 03:43 PM
I think the cops had to get him for offensive music because intentionally creating photos of yourself looking like a complete tool isn't against the law.

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2010/03/05/1225837/538228-news-nathan-20100306.jpg

angusg
6th March 2010, 04:02 PM
Police targeting people for playing loud music in their cars is nothing new, kind of a none event here

I'm with the majority on this one, if you do stupid things and leave yourself open as a target for police they WILL target you. I have a mate who when we were younger was constantly getting in trouble for traffic related offences, burnouts, got done running a red light, and he was always a prick to cops, and they'd always be a prick back to him. He lost his license several times, and in the end lost job because his boss couldn't get cover for him to drive the work vehicle.

I had a piece of shit car, often had bald tires (This was 5 years ago when I was in my teens, I'm not proud of it!) and whenever the cops'd pull me over for something, (going marginally over the speed limit, RBT, car screeching a little while taking off from traffic lights etc) I've always been polite and respectful to them (Yes officer, No officer) and I've only ever had one traffic related offence.

marc
6th March 2010, 04:04 PM
Being a tool to the cops isn't the best of options at any time, is it really so hard to understand when a uniformed officer asks you to turn it down you should turn it down...???

IT'S A FREE COUNTRY I CAN DO WOT I WANT.

(Yeah, agree. If a cop asks you to do something that's not unreasonable, it's in your best interests to politely accept their recommendation.)

angusg
6th March 2010, 04:05 PM
Personally, I'd love for action to be taken against people spitting in public. It's an absolutely vile thing to see.

I'll cough a loogie in a garden bed or down a gutter or something like that. I know it's gross but there's no way in hell I'm swallowing that. I'll always try and be discreet about it and always around a corner/alley way etc.

angusg
6th March 2010, 04:08 PM
Offense is a personal opinion and not a black and white thing.

Don't give me that, you need definition otherwise how is anything ever considered offensive? sometimes it is a contextual thing, but somethings are just plain offensive.

It's not hard either, it's just common sense.

glacierdave
6th March 2010, 04:21 PM
IT'S A FREE COUNTRY I CAN DO WOT I WANT.

Of course it is. Of course you can.

BUT!

Show me where it says you get to do so without consequences.

Geoff3DMN
6th March 2010, 04:35 PM
Don't give me that, you need definition otherwise how is anything ever considered offensive?

Definition of 'offensive' = "restricted by law or against the law".

If it's against the law or it's restricted by law (as to who can purchase/view and it's content) then it's offensive, if it isn't then it isn't.

angusg
6th March 2010, 04:37 PM
Definition of 'offensive' = "restriced by law or against the law".

If it's against the law or it's restricted by law (as to who can purchase/view and it's content) then it's offensive, if it isn't then it isn't.

of·fen·sive (-fnsv)
adj.
1. Disagreeable to the senses: an offensive odor.
2. Causing anger, displeasure, resentment, or affront: an offensive gesture.
3.
a. Making an attack: The offensive troops gained ground quickly.
b. Of, relating to, or designed for attack: offensive weapons.
4. (fn-) Sports Of or relating to a team having possession of a ball or puck: the offensive line.
n.
1. An attitude or position of attack: go on the offensive in chess.
2. An attack or assault: led a massive military offensive.

I don't care what the legal definition of offensive is either. It's not rocket science, it's just basic common sense.

ClockWork
6th March 2010, 04:45 PM
It's not rocket science, it's just basic common sense.

Which should be renamed to "uncommon sense" as almost no one has it. :tongue:

angusg
6th March 2010, 04:49 PM
Which should be renamed to "uncommon sense" as almost no one has it. :tongue:
you won't be hearing any arguments from me on that one!

iPath
6th March 2010, 05:16 PM
As everyone else has said, they could have also done him for noise pollution. Afterall if it can be heard from outside the vehicle then it is polluting.

This is nothing new for police to fine you for such offenses. Maybe they thought they would try traveling down a different route this time with a charge of "being offensive" rather then "Noise pollution". (suck shit to him)

mab
6th March 2010, 05:57 PM
My favourite comment from Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/b9mxc/teenager_arrested_for_listening_to_what_police/)

"It's like Australia and the UK are in a race to see who can unlock the 1984 achievement first."

Geoff3DMN
6th March 2010, 06:01 PM
I don't care what the legal definition of offensive is either.

That legal definition is the only one that's relevant here though.

Geoff3DMN
6th March 2010, 06:02 PM
It's like Australia and the UK are in a race to see who can unlock the 1984 achievement first.

Now that comment I can agree with (although I wish I didn't). :frustrating:

angusg
6th March 2010, 07:08 PM
That legal definition is the only one that's relevant here though.

Bollocks

happyfrappy
7th March 2010, 05:55 PM
My fantasy was that a crafty and illegal product would emerge that allowed one to transmit that wireless signal into the car next to yours, so that Muthar Fuckar would suddenly switch over to Beethoven's 9th at full volume.

A friend at MIT had done just that with a modified/amped up Griffin transmitter several years ago, it was to attack idiots who'd sit at a red light with all their windows down listening to a hiphop/rap radio station at full blast... it was priceless when that persons' radio would begin blasting Cyndi Lauper's "She Bop", Prince's "Purple Rain" or Rick Roll them :D
(best of all it was extremely portable, you could fit it in a small kids sized lunch box and sit on a bench at the crosswalk or mall parking lot)

ClockWork
8th March 2010, 02:13 AM
Stuff like public urination, vomiting, yelling and swearing, spitting etc. Public spaces do need different laws to private spaces, in my opinion.

If this were so, over a quarter of Sydney's population would be arrested every Friday night.

Bit of wishful thinking on my part there... ^_^

avolve
8th March 2010, 08:13 AM
The notion of common sense, whether you are aware of it or not, comes with much baggage. What might appear 'common sense' to to one person is based on their ideology, morals and values — which are not necessarily shared by others.

The rhetoric of common sense is oft used as a tool of manipulation, coercion and social control — whether over, intentional, or unconscious. You only need to think back a decade or two to reflect on clear examples of attempts to impose moral values on people, values that may seem far from our own (excuse the deference to the collective we).

For those who want to explore, dig you teeth more, Gramsci provided original research into the use of the notion of common sense as an insidious tool for social control:


Capitalism, Gramsci suggested, maintained control not just through violence and political and economic coercion, but also ideologically, through a hegemonic culture in which the values of the bourgeoisie became the 'common sense' values of all. Thus a consensus culture developed in which people in the working-class identified their own good with the good of the bourgeoisie, and helped to maintain the status quo rather than revolting.
Antonio Gramsci - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci)

In regards to the 'offender', are his actions any different to someone spouting the gospel? Someone spruiking the benefits of free market capitalism whilst hundreds of thousands suffer as a direct consequence of our lifestyles?

Some may find these questions ridiculous, even offensive. The point is they are based on different values. Would you like the police to come around and arrest us for using our tech gear because 6.9 million people have been murdered in the Congo largely because it the is source of 80% of the worlds Coltan (Coltan that is a key mineral used in devices like iPhones, laptops, etc)?

On the grand scheme of things, a young kind playing music which may offend is not that big an issue. Should he be given a speaking-to, perhaps. Yet who else in society should be given a speaking-to.

Who decides what is offensive? I assume there would be some disagreement as to who should be a member of the moral police...

marc
8th March 2010, 10:14 AM
In regards to the 'offender', are his actions any different to someone spouting the gospel?

Not really. Annoying noise pollution is annoying noise pollution.


On the grand scheme of things, a young kind playing music which may offend is not that big an issue.

In the grand scheme of things, his punishment will be minor and probably match the crime well.

~Coxy
8th March 2010, 10:53 AM
Definitely an overreaction by the cops, but that is pretty common these days!

If the kid is being a disruption to shoppers, then the owners of the property (I assume it was a shopping centre carpark) can ask him to leave. If he refuses, then by all means call in the cops and get him arrested on a real charge rather than some bullshit wishy washy thing.

The kid looks like a right tool but the problem with these wishy washy 'polic discretion' laws is that they can be and are used to target anyone. Very good point about the 1984 achievement, although thankfully I think we're not quite as bad as the UK yet.

ClockWork
8th March 2010, 11:04 AM
Apparently - or as far as I'm aware, if I have a verbal dispute in public and I shout out the words: fuck you - very loudly, and the cops just happen to be around at that exact moment, I can be charged for the use of offensive language.

In this case, the same law would apply, as it really doesn't matter where the source of the offensive language originates.

Wrong time - wrong place.

Stevoid
8th March 2010, 05:20 PM
Being the owner of a loud stereo, I must agree with most people here.

I turn it down coming up to the lights, I paid a little bit extra to sound deaden my car, and don't play offensive music in built-up area's.

I bought my sound system for quality sound over OMFG!!! HOW MUCH DOOF DOOF IS THIS LULZ?!?!

It's all nice and dandy having an awesomely loud stereo, but you got to remember other people probably won't like your music tastes (I know most people really hate mine! :P)

Geoff3DMN
8th March 2010, 08:02 PM
Apparently <SNIP> fuck you <SNIP> I can be charged for the use of offensive language.

It's my understanding that the context and usage of any 'word' has to be taken into account in determining if it's offensive or not and that no word is 'automatically' offensive.

entropy
8th March 2010, 08:33 PM
I am a firm believer that you have the right to do, and enjoy, whatever you want, as long as you don't infringe on the right of others to do, and enjoy whatever they want.

This little prick had pretty clearly overstepped that mark.

In economic terms: you have every right to maximise your utility as long as it doesn't diminish the utility of others.

In god-squad terms: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

ClockWork
8th March 2010, 08:40 PM
It's my understanding that the context and usage of any 'word' has to be taken into account in determining if it's offensive or not and that no word is 'automatically' offensive.

Fuck you Geoff.

Is that offensive enough?

:tongue:

natakim
8th March 2010, 08:48 PM
...

ClockWork
8th March 2010, 09:10 PM
...

lemme guess what you nearly said...

Ah screw it - C U Next Time.

;)

natakim
8th March 2010, 09:18 PM
lemme guess what you nearly said...

Ah screw it - C U Next Time.

;)

...

soulman
8th March 2010, 09:19 PM
How about "your cunt tastes delicious!" I've never known anyone to find that offensive.

natakim
8th March 2010, 09:25 PM
How about "your cunt tastes delicious!" I've never known anyone to find that offensive.

um... never mind.

he he he!!!

soulman
8th March 2010, 09:26 PM
Well, you did ask. Twice. :)

MissionMan
8th March 2010, 09:35 PM
Well, you did ask. Twice. :)

Most people I know would take offence to that. You must date a different class of women to me.

natakim
8th March 2010, 09:38 PM
Well, you did ask. Twice. :)

yes i did, but as an apology i quote henry miller as it was "mighty white of you" to point this out...

There are cunts which laugh and cunts which talk: there are crazy, hysterical cunts shaped like ocarinas and there are planturous, seismographic cunts which register the rise and fall of sap; there are cannibalistic cunts which open wide like the jaws of the whale and swallow alive; there are also masochistic cunts which close up like the oyster and have hard shells and perhaps a pearl of two inside: there are dithyrambic cunts which dance at the very approach of the penis and go wet all over in ecstasy; there are the porcupine cunts which unleash their quills and wave little flags at Christmas time: there are telegraphic cunts which practise the Morse code and leave the mind full of dots and dashes; there are the political cunts which are saturated with ideology and which deny even the menopause; there are vegetative cunts which make no response unless you pull them up by the roots; there are religious cunts which smell like Seventh Day Adventists and are full of beads, worms, clamshells, sheep droppings and now and then dried breadcrumbs; there are the mammalian cunts which are lined with otter skin and hibernate during the long winter; there are cruising cunts fitted out like yachts, which are good for solitaries and epileptics; there are glacial cunts in which you can drop shooting stars without causing a flicker; there are miscellaneous cunts which defy category or description, which you stumble on once in a lifetime and which leave you seared and branded; there are cunts made of pure joy which have neither name nor antecedent and these are the best of all, but whither have they flown?
And then there is the one cunt which is all, and this we shall call the super-cunt….
- Tropic of Capricorn by Henry Miller, P.194-195


"You can forgive a young cunt anything. A young cunt doesn't have to have brains. They're better without brains. But an old cunt, even if she's brilliant, even if she's the most charming woman in the world, nothing makes any difference. A young cunt is an investment; an old cunt is a dead loss. All they can do for you is buy you things. But that doesn't put meat on their arms or juice between their legs."
— Henry Miller (http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/147.Henry_Miller) (Tropic of Cancer (http://www.goodreads.com/book/quotes/249))

ClockWork
8th March 2010, 09:39 PM
Most people I know would take offence to that. You must date a different class of women to me.

He never said anything about women... he's just into waffles big time.

soulman
8th March 2010, 10:13 PM
...there are cunts made of pure joy which have neither name nor antecedent and these are the best of all...Wow! Great quotes! I'd forgotten how good that guy was. If it was Wednesday, I could tell you a story...


He never said anything about women... he's just into waffles big time.You're a funny cunt Clocky. :D

Goodbye
9th March 2010, 07:50 AM
Well I think this thread has done its dash and is now going downhill faster than a car with no brakes.