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Rayd
10th August 2005, 07:38 AM
Just released this morning! looks ok :D
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/default.aspx?pid=msnmessenger
have fun :D

Paxton
10th August 2005, 08:05 AM
Get Adium (http://adiumx.com/)

Seriously, the interface is still flawed, and the implementation of Display pictures still leaves serious questions about what took so long for it to be released. They has over a year, and did, really nothing that Adium had already.


-Andrew

the_OM
10th August 2005, 09:56 AM
Still no iSight support.
Seriously, imagine how many isights Apple Australia would sell if the isight worked on something other than AIM.

Fuck, yahoo messenger supports it....... but it seems that almost everyone who uses a messenger service in australia is on MSN.

Disko
10th August 2005, 09:59 AM
I used it for about 3 minutes. Closed it. Trashed it.

Adium all the way. :)

blindfox
10th August 2005, 10:02 AM
Still no support for webcams or audio chat like the Windows version. Or am I missing something?


Edit: Not supported, useless shite.

Squozen
10th August 2005, 10:29 AM
Why would I move away from an open-source app that supports every protocol (Adium), and towards closed-source Microsoft software?

emacmark
10th August 2005, 10:43 AM
How is Adium better tham Mercury?

http://www.mercury.to/

Mercury supports webcam via isight and can interface with MSN.

My daughter currently uses Mercury as I have not heard of Adium before.

Mark

ford.boy
10th August 2005, 10:53 AM
I was looking forwards to an iChatesque interface with nice minamal features... EVEN THE DAMN PREFPANEIS MASSIVE.

Yuck MS, Yuck. Interface design, what's that??

Disko
10th August 2005, 10:55 AM
So... is anyone going to review it for AppleTalk? :P

Perhaps a head to head Adium vs MSN5 B)

the_OM
10th August 2005, 11:12 AM
We should at least make it fair.
amsn vs. msn5

Squozen
10th August 2005, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by emacmark@Aug 10 2005, 10:43 AM
How is Adium better tham Mercury?

http://www.mercury.to/

Mercury supports webcam via isight and can interface with MSN.

My daughter currently uses Mercury as I have not heard of Adium before.

Mark
Adium supports MSN, ICQ, Jabber, AIM and Yahoo. Currently Mercury only supports MSN. Adium also doesn't use Java, so it is likely faster and less memory-hungry. It's also provided under the GPL - I can't work out which licence Mercury is using from their site and can't download the app at work.

Mercury will handle webcams though, which Adium has very limited support for.

Disko
10th August 2005, 11:34 AM
features aside... here's a GUI vs GUI comparison.

<center>Adium
http://users.on.net/~disko/adiumx_.jpg

vs

Microsoft Messenger 5.0
http://users.on.net/~disko/msn5.jpg</center>


Why is msn so big? Thats absurd.

The Fluffy Duck
10th August 2005, 11:37 AM
I will have to give this mercuray a quick go. At least it does audio and video.

The only function I wanted in msn 5 wasw audio and webcam. They still cant do it?

Disko
10th August 2005, 11:41 AM
i don&#39;t think microsoft *want* to do it. They want to keep msn video and audio in the windows world. "Huh? I can&#39;t audio chat with my friends on mac? Macs suck."

Brains
10th August 2005, 11:43 AM
Gods, that is hideous.

Mind you, that Adium thing looks even worse.

I&#39;m sticking with Messenger 7 under VirtualPC.


Brains

Wally
10th August 2005, 11:44 AM
You can resize the windows you know..

Doesnt matter though. Adium surely would be much better.

Disko
10th August 2005, 11:48 AM
i can take another screenshot with scrollbars in it if you like wally. :)

queraxus
10th August 2005, 12:12 PM
Adium is infinitely customizable. Mine looks nothing like that pic.

It has serious issues with file transfers though. Most of the time, they don&#39;t work.

The Fluffy Duck
10th August 2005, 12:16 PM
But really. All they did was applied a brushed metal interface on it.

Trust me when I say you dont want all the features msn 7 uses. First of all its full of adds and NINEMSN bs you dont need and just clog the user interace. 90% of the features are aimed at pre teen girls who love to send winks/nudges and other such bs. The kind of people who use 8 diffrent kind of emoticons and weird font symbols to make up letters while ripping off a depressing line from a song they like or how much they love their bf.

All you need in a chat program is :

-contact grouping
-blocking
-chat typing
-audio
-video
-email
-file sharing

You dont really need much more than that.


EDIT: I just used mercury.........ew

morn
10th August 2005, 12:31 PM
Meh, at least they now have animated emoticons. It&#39;s still missing custom animated emoticons, the difference between using an IM client without custom animated emoticons and with, is like the different between being in an empty concrete room, and one that&#39;s properly painted and well furnished. Sure you don&#39;t really need them, but they are fun.

ford.boy
10th August 2005, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Brains@Aug 10 2005, 11:43 AM
Gods, that is hideous.

Mind you, that Adium thing looks even worse.

I&#39;m sticking with Messenger 7 under VirtualPC.


Brains
You seriously VPC for msn? :huh:

I think your priorities are a little skewed :P

queraxus
10th August 2005, 12:58 PM
I don&#39;t need winks or nudges or animated emoticons, or any other bollocks.

I want video and audio. Very simple.

Xenex
10th August 2005, 01:19 PM
Rick Schaut&#39;s (of the Microsoft MacBU) blog entry about the release. (http://blogs.msdn.com/rick_schaut/archive/2005/08/09/449535.aspx)

Also, he does reply to comments...

the_OM
10th August 2005, 01:30 PM
We should all post asking about videochat support.

God, what the fuck are they waiting for? yahoo and aim both support it..... for fucks sake, what does the mac business unit do beside update the office interface now and then and add obscure features that fuck all people will use...... and jesus christ, don&#39;t get me started on windows media player for mac.......
I just want to hit something right now. It&#39;s been a shitty day.

Disko
10th August 2005, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by the_OM@Aug 10 2005, 01:00 PM
We should all post asking about videochat support.
I already did - but the comments are moderated, so we&#39;ll see if it goes through.

edit: i quoted you on the front page and in that blog post queraxus :)

jeremy
10th August 2005, 03:30 PM
No significant new features and it only looks uglier than ever. I still say it&#39;s Jabber (http://www.jabber.org.au/ichat) all the way.

Paxton
10th August 2005, 03:45 PM
Disko, Sound Familiar?


Tuesday, August 09, 2005 11:30 PM by Disko
# re: Mac Messenger 5.0

At first glance, the UI is improved. At second glance: Why is everything so big? Where&#39;s the video support? Where&#39;s the audio support? Third party IM apps are beating Microsoft to the punch every time on adding new features for the Macintosh MSN users.

A quote I read on a forum today: "I don&#39;t need winks or nudges or animated emoticons, or any other bollocks. I want video and audio. Very simple."


-Andrew

Disko
10th August 2005, 03:48 PM
That be my comment&#33; :)

Rayd
10th August 2005, 04:24 PM
i like it :) the display pictures work, i get to know who comes online no matter what application im using, but reallllly want vid + aud support :(

macmate
10th August 2005, 04:36 PM
i like some improvements but for what i see its really a 1 month upgrade not a 1 year one&#33;&#33;&#33; i mean really. no vid or audio? at least you can take away the pictures that come up every single time you type a message (like the do in ichat) which really annoys me. this saves a lot of room.

its MS so its going to be shitte&#33;

kit
10th August 2005, 05:20 PM
I reiterate - why can&#39;t they buy aMSN which HAS VIDEO SUPPORT?


Mercury is a Java application, and it runs dog-slow (and looks like the devil too), and aMSN looks horrendous but does what it&#39;s supposed to.


I don&#39;t use MSN Messenger anymore, and likely won&#39;t until it can video-chat properly with PC users.

Don&#39;t get me wrong, Yahoo&#33; Messenger is horrible too (for the Mac).


We&#39;re getting the short straw all over the place. I just wish Apple would implement them into iChat and do it properly, and just let us have a nice client that can actually do what we want.

the_OM
10th August 2005, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by macmate@Aug 10 2005, 04:36 PM
i like some improvements but for what i see its really a 1 month upgrade not a 1 year one&#33;&#33;&#33; i mean really. no vid or audio? at least you can take away the pictures that come up every single time you type a message (like the do in ichat) which really annoys me. this saves a lot of room.

its MS so its going to be shitte&#33;
I always wondered, do resellers sell many iSights? Or are sales restricted because most people in australia use msn and isights won&#39;t work with it?

Rayd
10th August 2005, 05:47 PM
aMSN has vid support?

zac
10th August 2005, 05:48 PM
Hey just wanted to say a BIG thanks to the person who said to get Adium. I just got it and god it rocks, its like something out of cupertino - so swish and friendly. Cheers&#33;

the_OM
10th August 2005, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by ipod_man@Aug 10 2005, 05:47 PM
aMSN has vid support?
The aMSN for mac version I use hasn&#39;t....... and I&#39;m pretty sure its the latest release.

McMullet
10th August 2005, 06:01 PM
I&#39;ve been using it now for about 15 minutes now and I find it a little slow. It&#39;s not as responsive as adium, proteus, or even the previous version of messenger.

And why the hell did it take this long to bring out something like this? The end product hardly justifies it.

I&#39;ll keep using it until I can&#39;t bear it anymore... which I&#39;m guessing will be very soon.

petruk
10th August 2005, 06:01 PM
Mercury Messenger, albeit still slow at loading is *surprisingly* better than it&#39;s older versions, and includes webcam support. I used to think it was crap, now I love it.

jeremy
10th August 2005, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by kit@Aug 10 2005, 05:20 PM
I reiterate - why can&#39;t they buy aMSN which HAS VIDEO SUPPORT?
Because it&#39;s written in tcl/tk. It&#39;s no use to anyone who wants to make a program that&#39;s anything but ugly.


We&#39;re getting the short straw all over the place. I just wish Apple would implement them into iChat and do it properly, and just let us have a nice client that can actually do what we want.

Because that would be counter-productive. Apple supporting MSN like that would be like Microsoft supporting iPods in Windows Media Player or something.

In any case, I&#39;ve said it once and I&#39;ll say it many times again. People should be using Jabber and not some proprietary centralised IM.

queraxus
10th August 2005, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by jeremy@Aug 10 2005, 06:18 PM
In any case, I&#39;ve said it once and I&#39;ll say it many times again. People should be using Jabber and not some proprietary centralised IM.
You can say it a million times, and it won&#39;t make any difference.

When all your contacts are on msn, and a good percentage have video, and everyone has audio, Jabber doesn&#39;t make the grade.

Paxton
10th August 2005, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by zac@Aug 10 2005, 05:48 PM
Hey just wanted to say a BIG thanks to the person who said to get Adium. I just got it and god it rocks, its like something out of cupertino - so swish and friendly. Cheers&#33;
That was me, and I said it as a Joke, mainly because I am anit-Microsoft, except for Office, which is a necessity. I have been using Adium for 2 years, and have not had any issues at all with inter-operability. My friends and relatives don&#39;t even know what Platform I am on, except for the Avatar (Apple Logo).


Have a good one.


-Andrew

jeremy
10th August 2005, 07:36 PM
It&#39;s perfectly fine for text based messaging which is what 99% of IM is about and all that the MSN mac client or Adium supports. All we really need though is for someone to make a Jabber client for Windows that does video/audio chat that is compatible with iChat. One way to do this would be to implement the Quicktime 7 API when it comes out for Windows. The other might be to use some of the open source libs (e.g. ffmpeg (http://ffmpeg.sourceforge.net/)). The next step is just to hound your friends to use it&#33; ;)

marc
10th August 2005, 08:27 PM
LOL&#33; Love the responses. I&#39;m not sure if they&#39;re what MS wants though.


Originally posted by jeremy@Aug 10 2005, 06:18 PM
Because that would be counter-productive. Apple supporting MSN like that would be like Microsoft supporting iPods in Windows Media Player or something.
They may not be allowed to use MSNs protocol either.


In any case, I&#39;ve said it once and I&#39;ll say it many times again. People should be using Jabber and not some proprietary centralised IM.
Yes.

However, I&#39;m in the same boat as everyone else. Most of my friends are using MSN.

Adium is by far the best option. It&#39;s a bit ugly by default, but it&#39;s really customisable (I&#39;m usually not a fan of customisation... things should just look good the first time you launch them, but Adium does it well).

I&#39;ve attached a pic of the way I have it set up.

W2ttsy
10th August 2005, 08:52 PM
well i can always when a new version of MSN is out. suddenly the current version (4.0.2) stops working as well as it used to. will be interesting to see how version 5.0 goes.

W2ttsy

zac
10th August 2005, 09:36 PM
Yeah, the customizational abilities of Adium are great - especially the scripts. Get the pun script, you type /pun and it inserts a random pun for you. Slightly useless but really fun.

The Fluffy Duck
10th August 2005, 10:07 PM
For the love of god and all things holy tabbed chat windows&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
I cant believe this hasnt been brought up&#33;
They are the best thing ever.

Edit: Marc thats a loverly adium setup what mods are they so I can make it as nice looking as that?

jeremy
10th August 2005, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by marc@Aug 10 2005, 08:27 PM
They may not be allowed to use MSNs protocol either.
I&#39;m sure they could license the protocol like Trillian does, but I can&#39;t imagine that it&#39;d be cheap. But there are other issues as well, MSN isn&#39;t exactly the nicest thing to develop for since it&#39;s whole design is just far too complex and inefficient. Though I suppose if Apple were willing to pay the price that may not be such a concern to them though.


However, I&#39;m in the same boat as everyone else. Most of my friends are using MSN.

Was same for me but I&#39;ve kinda made friends with too many Jabber people :D ... Now I find people people on MSN are mostly boring and have nothing much to say. So I&#39;m logging it off for most of the time. There are still some friends who laggards and won&#39;t use Jabber but they can wait for me to log in to MSN when I feel like it.




Adium is by far the best option.

I can&#39;t complain about Adium, as long as you also use it on Jabber&#33; ;)

Big_J
11th August 2005, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by queraxus@Aug 10 2005, 12:58 PM
I don&#39;t need winks or nudges or animated emoticons, or any other bollocks.

I want video and audio. Very simple.
Just wondering...can anyone confirm that MSN 5.0 supports the winks and nudges people using MSN (Windows Version) are always trying to send me in Adium? Apparently in MSN (Windows Version) you can send these little animated cartoonish things and I&#39;m not even sure what a "nudge" is...

Brains
11th August 2005, 12:27 PM
A &#39;wink&#39; (personally, I think they got one letter wrong ;)) is a small Flash animation, kinda like a giant emoticon. And a &#39;nudge&#39; just makes the recipient&#39;s chat window wobble around a bit.


Brains

Brains
11th August 2005, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by ford.boy@Aug 10 2005, 02:56 AM
You seriously VPC for msn? :huh:

I think your priorities are a little skewed :P
No, not skewed at all.

Most of my family use MSN, because it came with their computers. My kids use MSN because all their friends are on MSN (mainly for the same reason). And as all my kids are in a different state to me, webcamming via MSN is important.

Is it too hard to make MSN Messenger feature-matched for both platforms?


Brains

TorranceTM
11th August 2005, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Brains@Aug 11 2005, 12:36 PM
webcamming via MSN is important.
Brains,

Any issues you have found or other hints?
Do you use an iSight or a generic USB camera?
Are you using Win 2k or Win XP in VPC?
How is the performance?

TIA.

froggy
11th August 2005, 04:24 PM
Does no one else out there use Fire for multi-protocol IM chats?

tranp
11th August 2005, 04:27 PM
Good effort by MS, it looks like some effort has gone into it. It&#39;s not as good as Adium but it&#39;s still nice.

Exocet
11th August 2005, 05:27 PM
Why can&#39;t Microsoft just RELEASE A DECENT CLIENT&#33;? I&#39;m so sick of putting up with this shit which is lightyears behind the Windows client. No sending of custom emoticons, no receiving of animated custom emoticons, no audio/video chat, no contact groups and to a lesser account, personal messages and MSN-Space update notification.

waynie
11th August 2005, 08:18 PM
I&#39;m never one to squash debate, but lets take baby steps here. I think that Microsoft took the effort to publish a new version itself is astounding. Yes, its missing a lot of features that windows users take for granted and Mac users can find in alternate applications. But atleast they put in some effort.

I think Apple itself is to blame for the lack of support amongst the variety of IM vendors out there. Why would Microsoft place a huge emphasis when we are such a small part of the market. I&#39;m also sure that iChat doesn&#39;t help matters - perhaps Microsoft feels that the voice and video markets on Mac are impossible to break due to iChat?

It does appear to me that MSN dumped Messenger for Mac, which is why it has been "rebadged" Microsoft Messenger in place of MSN Messenger. Many of the nice features on MSN Messenger for Windows are closely linked to MSN sites, so perhaps this partially explains the lack of content, although I don&#39;t believe it explains the lack of features.

I hope those who download the program take the time to provide Microsoft with feedback through the Help menu in the application, so they can know there is a demand for these services.

(Oh, and the new Yahoo Messenger for Windows released this week kicks ass... I even get better voice quality than Skype&#33; Oh wise Yahoo gods, please bring it to the Mac).

On-Site-Tec
11th August 2005, 09:11 PM
The very least they could have done is put a couple of features in that just DONT exist on 3rd party clients.

Like Web Cam and Audio chats.

Its just really frustrating&#33; But what do they care anyway&#33; hehe

Matt.

morn
11th August 2005, 09:41 PM
I understand if they don&#39;t want to go to the effort of implamenting a video and audio client for the mac version, but it&#39;s just pathetic that they don&#39;t have simple things like customisable emoticons or nudge.

waynie
13th August 2005, 11:54 AM
Dear Wayne,

Thank you for writing to MSN Messenger Technical Support.

My name is Dan and I will be assisting you today.

I am writing in response concern on having a video and audio conversation in MSN Messenger for Mac.

We appreciate your inquiry. Unfortunately, that features are not currently available within MSN Messenger for Mac.

Video and audio conversation features are only available in MSN Messenger for Windows, that is, MSN Messenger installed on computers with Windows Operating system (Windows XP, Windows ME, etc.).

We forwarded your concern to the product team that carefully reviews and considers it for future releases.

You are valuable here at MSN. Please feel free to write back for any other concerns. You may also use our online Help at:

http://help.msn.com/EN_US/HelpWindow_msg.a...0.ini&H_VER=1.7 (http://help.msn.com/EN_US/HelpWindow_msg.asp?INI=Macmsgv40.ini&H_VER=1.7)

Sincerely,

Dan
MSN Messenger Technical Support

ford.boy
13th August 2005, 12:45 PM
I don&#39;t know a thingabout programming. But.

isn&#39;t MSN a flash (or similar) based or IE based program on windows? If it is, can&#39;t it basically be ported using the IE mac engine? Or am I completely and utterly off?

Exocet
13th August 2005, 01:48 PM
...couldn&#39;t be more off. Flash is an animation program, and IE is a browser, not a programming language :)

designers_hub
13th August 2005, 08:13 PM
i wouldn&#39;t give a dam about video and audio support.

they don&#39;t even have a "display by email" function, thats just bull shit&#33;

seriously AT LEAST allow us to view contacts my email or our custom label. All my contacts have freaking long and annoying nick names and i can&#39;t tell who is who.

Is there a way i can get around this? I still want to use msn 5 cause all other 3rd party are so crap, ugly and complex.

I use ichat via jabber, but i can only send text messages, no file transfers and display pics.

designers_hub
13th August 2005, 10:27 PM
o i just tried Adium, gave it another shot. and i ONLY just found out there are tonnes of plug-ins&#33;

Now i have everything i ever wanted nd more on a nice and clean interface&#33;

EVERYONE GET ADIUM&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; the screenshots on this thread only displays one setting, you can customise the look in some many ways&#33;

ford.boy
13th August 2005, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Exocet@Aug 13 2005, 01:48 PM
...couldn&#39;t be more off. Flash is an animation program, and IE is a browser, not a programming language :)
I understand the difference in programming language and a browser; and I know that flash is and animation thing. ;) However, I must clarify:
I must have been asleep when I wrote that. :D


To use MSN 7&#39;s features (games, handwriting and drawing and &#39;winks&#39;) you must have flash and shockwave plugins for IE installed on your computer. There is obviously an element of this vector based animation and programming in there. The client itself is a program running proprietary code (well duh, it ain&#39;t opensource) and I am dead certain that i&#39;ve read it&#39;s a cut down version of IE in there somewhere.

My point is that the games and the winks could be as simple as adding a &#39;mini browser&#39; based on an open peice of software... say SAFARI. And I&#39;m betting that the webcam and voice is all in encrypted .WM*, so until they get the shoddy mac WMplayer up and running we won&#39;t ever see it on the platform.


Anyway. I&#39;ve just donesome searching through some wikis for this info. So I may be wrong.
:)

designers_hub
14th August 2005, 12:03 AM
actually your wrong flash can be used to make programs, software and all sorts of internet applications. i&#39;ve been using flash for a few years and i&#39;ve seen people do amazing things. i.e. i chat application which has audio, webcam, file transfer and even a whiteboard. It was so mad because it had GROUP audio, webcam and whiteboard support. It makes msn and ichat look crappy. i saw it years ago and i do recall the site.

HOWEVER, you are also right partly. Usually flash sites which have complex applications actually link back to php, mysql, .net etc scripts. So the backend is not flash but the GUI interface is.

So your wrong and right.

But yes flash is limited in its programming abilities and you wouldn&#39;t expect to build something like Microsoft Office in it without back support for other programming languages. A flash MSN is not far fetched however.

macintoshrules
14th August 2005, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by emacmark+Aug 10 2005, 10:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (emacmark &#064; Aug 10 2005, 10:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> How is Adium better tham Mercury?

http://www.mercury.to/

Mercury supports webcam via isight and can interface with MSN.

My daughter currently uses Mercury as I have not heard of Adium before.

Mark [/b]
Yeah, Mercury rocks&#33; I use it.

I use iChat (jabber.org.au MSN transport), aMSN and Mercury. All 3 rock&#33;

For my audio, I use Skype. Works WAY better than MSN audio - I can talk to someone who is playing CS online at the same time...

MSN audio chat won&#39;t do that...

And it actually works&#33;


<!--QuoteBegin-Brains

A &#39;wink&#39; (personally, I think they got one letter wrong ;)) is a small Flash animation, kinda like a giant emoticon. And a &#39;nudge&#39; just makes the recipient&#39;s chat window wobble around a bit.


Brains
[/quote]
Mercury does winks great. aMSN and mecury do nudges. But what I love about aMSN (that really pisses off the windows users) is that it has unlimited nudges&#33; I just keep clicking that button and it annoys the hell out of them when they nudge me back...

emacmark
15th August 2005, 03:37 PM
Help Please,
I have just installed MSN 5 on my emac and ibook. ibook works fine. On my emac, when I go to check my inbox for hotmail, MS word opens instead of going to the Hotmail page and inbox.
Any anyone got any ideas?
Thanks
Mark

konni
15th August 2005, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by marc@Aug 10 2005, 08:27 PM
Adium is by far the best option. It&#39;s a bit ugly by default, but it&#39;s really customisable.... I&#39;ve attached a pic of the way I have it set up.
I s&#39;pose I should try Adium (customised) but it looks like a lot of space hogging eye candy for a text based IM. I like to scan back on text occasionally - so if it&#39;s compact that&#39;s better AFAIC.

Anyway I want to give Jabber (open source) another plug for those who are into text. It gets all of my MSN contacts.

AquaGen
24th August 2005, 11:33 PM
I don&#39;t know why no-one on this board hasn&#39;t posted this yet?

amsn 0.95j for osx, with full webcam support and many other msn 7.0 features, by far the best msn to use on OSX tiger right now.

http://forums.cocoaforge.com/viewforum.php?f=14 (download here)