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tcimac
10th December 2009, 09:18 PM
Angus Kidman & a Macbook (http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2009/12/macbook-migrant-my-week-with-a-mac/#more-347487)

iCarllovesapple
10th December 2009, 09:39 PM
That guy's reasons not to buy a Mac are fucked. Seriously fucked. After using OSX server everything that guy wants to do HE CAN DO ON A MAC JUST AS EASILY!!! Oh God.. Some people have got such a hard head, they make me sick. Edit: Just read one of his tweets.. It was something along the lines of "I thought the Vodafone mobile installer was bad to install on windows, it's much worse on a Mac. Did it even install?" If the idiot had a few brains, he'd have read the manual. I admit, setting up modems is annoying. BUT don't say that the OS your using is bad because of that software. Do your research before you try installing something. Learn how the Mac operates. A simple Google search would have fixed his issue. I can't believe how passionate I am, about an Operating System.

decryption
10th December 2009, 09:50 PM
I have a strong dislike for Angus Kidman. Everything he writes just pisses me off. It's like God put him on this earth to raise my blood pressure.

(and pfft, I did the same thing months ago (http://www.mactalk.com.au/2009/06/02/a-week-without-apple/) :p)

AngusKidman
10th December 2009, 11:13 PM
Just two quick points: (1) My main reason for not buying a Mac is the lack of a sub-sized model. This stream of abuse doesn't remotely acknowledge that. (2) I don't see why searching Google should be the first step ahead of installing the official Mac driver software from a hardware provider -- and if it is, it doesn't say much for the "it just works" world view. I'm hoping that my Mac experience will provide me with some insights, but they're not going to emerge from people who assume that any criticism of the platform is tantamount to treason.

iCarllovesapple
10th December 2009, 11:16 PM
Well Mr Kidman, since you've joined the forum we can help you when you need it. The Mac platform is very simple & a joy to use but if you enter with a CLOSED mind it will prove difficult and extremely annoying. A man like yourself who claims to be a great guy with gadgets should be able to figure out little things. It's not that different to the Windows Operating system.

supermariobothers
10th December 2009, 11:28 PM
Will be interested to find out the results - but I don't think that a week will be long enough.

Edit: Just read the tweet - does seem a bit rough to blame apple for 3rd party software not working, shitty phone software too. Incompatibilities are probably more to do with the Vodafone side of things, and they don't advertise it to 'just work'.

iCarllovesapple
11th December 2009, 01:41 AM
Ok wow.. Just read some of your Blog comment replies and you are a very silly person. You have a really bad attitude, too. I didn't realize how hard it was to go into Spotlight to find an application. I use spotlight 100 times a day to find applications or documents that are not in my Dock. There's a Keyboard shortcut for that too, by the way - since you think the Mac OS has little keyboard shortcuts and is too "clicky" for you. It's Command + Space. Do some research. Stop being so negative, it is really annoying. You have hundreds of readers on your blog and I can't understand why you are making it sound like Windows computers are so much better than Macs. They're not. They are the same. You want to access your files? Go to Finder instead of My Documents or My Pictures. You want to upload a file to your FTP server? Drag and drop it into Transmitt. Done, it's been sent. Want to quickly browse through your open applications to access that one clients email address that your coworker is hounding you for? Command + Tab. You want to really quickly setup an internet connection? Plug in your ethernet cable and Go! With a Windows computer - I believe there are drivers needed. You need to quickly edit a photo out of the box on your Mac? Open iPhoto and edit it. How would you do that on a PC Out of the Box?? Use Paint?

tcn33
11th December 2009, 04:30 AM
I don't see why searching Google should be the first step ahead of installing the official Mac driver software from a hardware provider -- and if it is, it doesn't say much for the "it just works" world view.

Actually those modems do "just work" - it's entirely possible to use one without installing anything. The issue is that using it without the bundled software means you don't get the other carrier-specific stuff they build in - account balance info etc; plus the bundled software is written with Windows in mind first, and OS X as an afterthought.

The point iCarl has made above this post is a decent one, if a little buried: Macs are pretty intuitive. Try something once the really obvious way - not the way Windows does it, but the easiest way you can think of. (Example: you want to email a photo? Drag and drop it on the Mail icon in the Dock.) If it doesn't work, then look it up. More often that not it'll be easier than on Windows. And if you can't find the answer then come and ask us :)

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 05:58 AM
For me, the easiest way to do something is with a keyboard, so the notion that easy = drag and drop doesn't automatically come into it. So far, that's meant the keyboard shortcut I've used the most has been Cmd-Space.

(And BTW iCarl, plugging in an Ethernet cable on a Windows machine is exactly as easy as on a Mac.)

Lumus
11th December 2009, 06:28 AM
I think iCarl is being a little harsh. Some aspects of OSX are not very obvious (such as Spotlight's keyboard shortcut) and as a recent mac convert it took me about 3 months to find some of them. And the whole installing and removing of applications, while much easier and simpler on OSX, is sufficiently different to confuse someone who's rarely used macs in the past.

I do agree however that a single week isn't enough to fully appreciate OSX.

(It also irks me when "Mac Fans" go all up in arms and basically start insulting people, as if we're better in some way. People are entitled to their own opinions and if you have a problem with the way someone thinks, at least be civilized about it!)

decryption
11th December 2009, 06:45 AM
I think iCarl is being a little harsh. Some aspects of OSX are not very obvious (such as Spotlight's keyboard shortcut) and as a recent mac convert it took me about 3 months to find some of them. And the whole installing and removing of applications, while much easier and simpler on OSX, is sufficiently different to confuse someone who's rarely used macs in the past.

I do agree however that a single week isn't enough to fully appreciate OSX.

(It also irks me when "Mac Fans" go all up in arms and basically start insulting people, as if we're better in some way. People are entitled to their own opinions and if you have a problem with the way someone thinks, at least be civilized about it!)

Totally agree with you - iCarl's rants are pathetic and make me want to slap him across the head. Then I realise he is 13 years old and it seems easier to ignore.

That said, Angus is a bit daft if installing Firefox confused him. Remember, this guy is an IT journalist, so you'd expect some insight as to how computers work, as opposed to a random drooling idiot.

This is from the comments on the Lifehacker post:

Jon - December 10, 2009 at 4:35 PM
really??!

1. go to Firefox web browser | Faster, more secure, & customizable (http://www.getfirefox.com)
2. click large download link
3. file downloads, disk image auto-opens when finished
4. drag the large firefox application on top of the Applications folder icon in the disk image window
5. there is no step 5…

Angus Kidman - December 10, 2009 at 4:46 PM
Step 3 didn’t happen. Had to use the Finder. And then had to use Spotlight to find Firefox to launch it.

So I guess he didn't bother to read this nice and clear set of instructions when he downloaded Firefox?

http://grab.by/173u

Nothing's gonna work if you don't read the documentation - Mac or Windows. And even then, did this window not give any hints as to where Firefox would reside? A little intuition goes a long way.

http://grab.by/174o

Instead he had to use Spotlight to find it! Uhh, it's pretty obvious it would be in the Applications folder, as that's where he would have had to have had dragged it.

Angus couldn't even find the eject button his keyboard:

Angus Kidman - December 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM
I think “What’s the easiest way to do this?” is a very subjective question, based as much on prior habit as anything else. For instance, I think the easiest way to eject a CD is with an eject button. Don’t have that option on a Mac :-)

Jon - December 10, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Yes you do. It’s on the keyboard, right next to the slot-loading drive! I don’t think it would really fit next to the drive anywhere….

Angus Kidman - December 10, 2009 at 4:25 PM
D’oh! Point taken re the eject key, thanks y’all. But I think the point about intuitiveness remains (especially given the convoluted process I’ve just been through to install Firefox — no way was that easier than in Windows).

He also says he loves keyboard shortcuts. That's cool, use Quicksilver. But he refuses to install it because he wants to "see how far I can get going with what’s available in the native OS X environment" - uhh, why? It doesn't prove anything. You wouldn't use Windows in a bare default state, so why treat the Mac the same way? I mean, he installed Firefox, which doesn't come with a Mac.

It seems to me that Angus has rote learned Windows and is so familiar with it and turned using Windows into such a habit, that using anything but Windows will be so uncomfortable and awkward, that he won't like using a Mac one bit as he is a typical, stubborn nerd. And... that's fine. Use Windows, that's what it's there for. Just don't expect anything insightful, useful or even entertaining from this MacBook Migrant stunt.

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 07:07 AM
I certainly didn't ignore the documentation in that instance. As I pointed out on LH, I never got prompted -- ie step 2 as illustrated on the Mozilla site didn't happen -- don't know why and it doesn't matter now, but it did make the experience feel less than seamless.

And (ignoring the various random bits of abuse) the point of the exercise is to identify those areas where an experienced Windows user needs to approach things differently on a Mac.

arkenstone
11th December 2009, 07:13 AM
For me, the easiest way to do something is with a keyboard, so the notion that easy = drag and drop doesn't automatically come into it. So far, that's meant the keyboard shortcut I've used the most has been Cmd-Space.



Firstly, I congratulate Angus for braving the community. Please don't be discouraged by the people here who have disagreed with you so vehemently, some find it hard to differentiate themselves from the computer they use.

On the topic of having to use a mouse a lot, I switched to Mac about three years ago but my single biggest gripe with the Mac platform is a massive lack of keyboard shortcuts or keyboard alternatives to mouse actions.

As someone who grew up on a CLI I find the keyboard drastically faster than a mouse for almost all tasks, it'd be nice if there were (or I knew of) keyboard shortcuts for more activities. I can't think of many tasks I can't achieve in Windows with only a keyboard.

glacierdave
11th December 2009, 07:39 AM
Congrats Angus for braving the criticisms, particularly on this forum.

Balance is a difficult thing to achieve. For every opinion you express there's someone who vehemently disagrees.

I've read quite a bit of your stuff (at LH, APC, etc) and, mostly, consider it reasonable. My caveat is that reasonable doesn't necessarily equate to balanced - but that's OK, I make up my own mind about things anyway.

I agree that for you, a Mac is likely to be a non-starter - mostly from the perspective of needing a decent traveling computer.

I'm a full-time Mac user but come from a Windows background (and a linux and Amiga background even further back than that).

My most recent Windows box was a HP laptop and I'm finding that I really miss the docking station. It was great to just un-dock and take my laptop with me and leave all the connected stuff behind. Now, I need to unplug multiple cables instead of hitting a single release lever.

At the same time, I've enjoyed a user interface that, as I get more familiar, I find more intuitive to use. Yes, it's somewhat mouse-centric but in my case that's alright. I've even found that where I used to carry a bluetooth mouse when traveling I now don't bother, the trackpad on the MBP is more powerful and intuitive than a mouse without needing extra table space that can be difficult to find on the road.

Oh, and the battery life of my MBP eats my HP laptop's capabilities for breakfast.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

supermariobothers
11th December 2009, 08:01 AM
[QUOTE=AngusKidman;910010]... As I pointed out on LH, I never got prompted -- ie step 2 as illustrated on the Mozilla site didn't happen -- don't know why and it doesn't matter now, but it did make the experience feel less than seamless.
/QUOTE]

Hi angus, again this experience, or lack of, has more to do with Mozilla and their download page than it does with osx or your MacBook. Whilst I understand that this - and your phone driver frustrations are a part of your user experience on a whole, the faults don't actually lie with the os - and I seriously doubt they were any harder to figure out than installing some third party apps on windows.

Maybe it's best to just apply the 'it just works' theory to the apple produced hardware and software, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how well it does 'just work'.

I think what us mactalkers care about the most is that, given the size of your following, you present your experience and findings with an objective, and unbiased point point of view. To be honest, and I don't mean this as an attack - your opening posts and tweets seem skewed in an anti-mac direction.

I hope you end up using the machine for over a week, as it really takes just about that time to figure out where everything is and how it works. And as a convert for just over a year now - I can assure you that mactalk is full of great people, always willing to lend a hand.

kyte
11th December 2009, 08:03 AM
I certainly didn't ignore the documentation in that instance. As I pointed out on LH, I never got prompted -- ie step 2 as illustrated on the Mozilla site didn't happen -- don't know why and it doesn't matter now, but it did make the experience feel less than seamless.

And (ignoring the various random bits of abuse) the point of the exercise is to identify those areas where an experienced Windows user needs to approach things differently on a Mac.

Its a good idea, Angus. But the next step would be to add that coming to the Mactalk forums is a good thing to do when you don't quite understand how to do something, no Windows user should try to make the switch without help, because its not necessarily that intuitive at first, as you have found (hearing howls of derision from the back stalls... stoppit at once!)

When I made the switch, I was very timid about the whole thing and hung on to my PC, imagining that I would keep using it as my main machine, with the eMac as a kind of plaything. After 6 months of not firing up the PC at all, I realised it was time to let it go. I was/am an experienced Windows user... but I got the help I needed here in this forum, and from the friend in the US who nagged me into the switch.

Re Firefox: I don't get that prompt either, so don't fret, but when you opened the disk image, you should have been able to drag firefox.app to wherever you wanted it to go.

One thing I always did on my PCs and which I do on Mac is, before anything else, go into preferences and settings, check what changes can be made and make things the way I think they should be. So in my Finder, everything appears in the sidebar. Its a trivial matter to drag a new app to the Applications folder which is visible in the sidebar. I can't remember now if Applications is there by default or not, but you shouldn't need spotlight to find an app, really.

oh dear... verbosity rules.

wholikespotatoes
11th December 2009, 08:08 AM
I'm sorry but how can you even argue that

Finding the exe and opening it
Waiting for the InstallShield Wizard to load
Hitting next a bunch of times
Waiting for it to install


Is just as simple than dragging and dropping the icon on a Mac.
You could have even run it by skipping this step and not permanently installing it.

Sure there is an ever so slight delay on a Mac while it installs and in your case you did have to find the downloaded dmg, but I simply put this down to you starting out on OS X.

Best of luck, should make for an interesting read.

tcimac
11th December 2009, 08:47 AM
(1) My main reason for not buying a Mac is the lack of a sub-sized model.

Hey Angus, Sorry if I have started some personal abuse thread against you - certainly not my intention.

I am just as an avid reader of LH as I am a member of MT.

I just have one question about your comment above... I would have thought that a 13" Macbook was a small laptop? Given your comment - what do you consider "sub-sized"? Do you use a netbook?

I can't imagine working as a writer on something smaller than a 13" machine, because a) it's not too small to write with and b) it's still small enough to carry around when flying etc..

nbetts
11th December 2009, 08:51 AM
"For the most part, I’ll be sticking with whatever’s supplied on the machine. I am going to install Firefox, since I rely on a fair raft of extensions that won’t be available if I just use Safari and that’s a needless source of frustration. I’m going to use web mail, which should be rather less of a transitional shock than trying to shift from Outlook to Entourage or Mail."

This is the part that i think doesnt give this "migration" a fair and balanced experience of this whole exercise.

Who operates a Windows bare bones machine straight out of the box? no one, not even your grandma really. The first thing you do is start downloading 3rd party software to get all the apps you need onthe machine. To my thinking you really dont get a feel of a OS until you start using 3rd party software designed for that OS

And i dont see a point in using Outlook then not using Mac Mail using WebMail instead. There is no decent comparison that can be made there.

Good on Angus for "trying" this... but that all it is really, just a fairly limp wristed try. A week is really not long enough to give a user any decent and fair comparisons of an overall platform migration. Sure he will get some indications but that about it. Anyone knows that when you migrate from one system to another you find all the problems and issues in the first week. After that its smoother and more comfortable sailing, thats when you can really get a decent feel for the OS both the good and the bad.

Japester
11th December 2009, 09:15 AM
I certainly didn't ignore the documentation in that instance. As I pointed out on LH, I never got prompted -- ie step 2 as illustrated on the Mozilla site didn't happen -- don't know why and it doesn't matter now, but it did make the experience feel less than seamless...

I think what happened here was Open "safe" files after downloading in the General tab of Safari preferences was turned off. It's normally turned on by default. If it had been, the .dmg disk image would have been opened after download. The Firefox documentation expected the default to be in place. More-advanced users might turn this off. I do, but then I would know that I had to open the disk image manually.

wholikespotatoes
11th December 2009, 10:03 AM
So if Japester is correct, your first negative experience of the Macintosh will be due to the 3rd party software that you weren't going to install.

TheKeddi
11th December 2009, 10:44 AM
As the Mac user in my family, I just gave my mac mini to my brother who is 50 and HATES computers.

He picked it up in minutes and has been surfing and emailing no worries, he likes it way more than his windows machine that he has.

I guess you have to give everything an unbiased go, I have trouble going back to windows machines, they drive me crazy but to each their own.

I guess some people just don't like macs, good reasoning or not but if you go in closed minded to anything your not going to like it no matter what you do.

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 11:24 AM
Hey Angus, Sorry if I have started some personal abuse thread against you - certainly not my intention.

I am just as an avid reader of LH as I am a member of MT.

I just have one question about your comment above... I would have thought that a 13" Macbook was a small laptop? Given your comment - what do you consider "sub-sized"? Do you use a netbook?

I can't imagine working as a writer on something smaller than a 13" machine, because a) it's not too small to write with and b) it's still small enough to carry around when flying etc..

No apology needed -- writing about Apple often involves irrational attacks from a small but noisy percentage of the faithful, and there's plenty of interesting observations and useful advice here as well.

I have travelled with machines similar to the MacBook in size, but with constant travelling, something smaller becomes more appealing. I have used a netbook in the past, but found I needed something with a bit more grunt. Right now I'm using a Toshiba Portege 600, and I really wouldn't fancy anything larger, especially for use on planes and in terms of overall packing (there's similarly sized ThinkPads, Dells and HPs around).

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 11:31 AM
So if Japester is correct, your first negative experience of the Macintosh will be due to the 3rd party software that you weren't going to install.

Err, no -- it would be due to settings in Safari affected the way installation worked. As it happens, though, that's not the cause -- just checked that setting in Safari and it's selected, so something else must have affected the process.

To clarify the third party software stuff: I certainly expect that I'll be installing applications, but I also want to know how much the system can be configured/made more familiar without using third-party software. I made a point of saying I'm not installing Outlook because I've also raised that as a reason why I'd find a Mac a tricky transition in the past. For the purposes of this exercise, though, that would be a distraction from the main issues I want to examine.

gehenna
11th December 2009, 11:35 AM
Can I ask, in relation to your Outlook concerns, what kind of email protocol do you use? Exchange? IMAP? POP?

Japester
11th December 2009, 11:40 AM
...writing about Apple often involves irrational attacks from a small but noisy percentage of the faithful....

Please don't call Mac users "The Faithful". I find it offensive because you're drawing a religious parallel and I don't see being a fan of Apple products as a religion, no matter how fanatical some Mac users get. You're also distancing yourself from what you see as a different set of people. This is an arbitrary distinction. When it comes down to it, we just use different computers.

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 11:43 AM
One other note: on the machine as set up, Applications wasn't in the Dock. I'm gathering from the comments here that this is not usually the case. It's also a bit strange that dragging the Applications shortcut from Finder onto the Dock doesn't add it to the Dock, but does remove it from Finder! Just tried dragging Applications folder from the HD (as opposed to the shortcut), per Google advice/"what seems easiest" and that doesn't work either . . . advice?

gehenna
11th December 2009, 11:46 AM
per Google advice/"what seems easiest" and that doesn't work either . . . advice?

Drag it into the area to the right side of the dock, after the separating line and before the trash can.

Dragging it from the Finder sidebar is basically removing it from a shortcut list, similar to your Favourites area in the Windows Explorer sidebar. To re-add it to the Finder navigate to your Applications folder under the HD and drag to the Finder Sidebar. similarly add it to the Dock in the same way.

EDIT: Also in response to your "what seems easiest" statement - you're coming at this in the completely wrong way. You need basic fundamental information before using anything, including a new operating system. If you don't take the time to find out the basics then you make mistakes and you come to a biased opinion on usability.

For example - the first time I got into a manual car what seemed easiest to me was pushing the gearstick towards the number one and pressing the accelerator. What happened then was my mistake - a bunny hop and crunch of the gearbox. Basic fundamental information then told me that I had to use the clutch. How would I know to use a clutch if I wasn't being taught the fundamentals? You can get into an automatic car and what seems easiest is to press the accelerator and steer...because you know it to be automatic. But the fundamentals there are that you still need to put the car into drive.

I think your idea is commendable but your methodology is completely flawed. Before you lump me into the zealot category that you seem to have applied to many other people responding in this thread, you might like to consider that I was a windows server admin for several years, and for years before that I was a helpdesker that dealt with windows applications and users. I run a windows server at home, I have windows on my Mac, and I still deal with clients today that run Windows networks. I would approach any user with in the same way I have responded to you here, regardless of their computing preference. The only thing that can come from your efforts here is to form a biased opinion from a subjective test case.

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 11:49 AM
Please don't call Mac users "The Faithful". I find it offensive because you're drawing a religious parallel and I don't see being a fan of Apple products as a religion, no matter how fanatical some Mac users get. You're also distancing yourself from what you see as a different set of people. This is an arbitrary distinction. When it comes down to it, we just use different computers.

It seems to me that people who attack you for saying something they disagree with while not comprehending what you've said are behaving very much like religious fanatics, and hence I see "the faithful" as a fair label for that sub-group. I agree that's quite distinct from the general population of Mac users, but I make no apology for distancing myself (verbally or otherwise) from people who don't want to act rationally or argue issues on their merits.

HottPixels
11th December 2009, 11:51 AM
Please don't call Mac users "The Faithful". .

what i find funny is the fact that nobody seems to point out the windows faithful.... we cop it heaps for being apple users... and yet they are just as bad or even worse than us!! :)

can i suggest to anyone coming over to OSX is to go to the apple site and read their tutorials on stuff... its an easy site to navigate... and i think apple know their system better than anyone else.... or go into an apple store... or call them.... :)

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 11:51 AM
Can I ask, in relation to your Outlook concerns, what kind of email protocol do you use? Exchange? IMAP? POP?

POP, which clearly would work with pretty much any client. It's more the integrated nature of Outlook (calendar/tasks/contacts/email in a single program) and the easy BlackBerry sync that I like.

decryption
11th December 2009, 11:53 AM
It seems to me that people who attack you for saying something they disagree with while not comprehending what you've said are behaving very much like religious fanatics, and hence I see "the faithful" as a fair label for that sub-group. I agree that's quite distinct from the general population of Mac users, but I make no apology for distancing myself (verbally or otherwise) from people who don't want to act rationally or argue issues on their merits.

I experience the same thing from Windows users that have no desire to even listen, let alone try to understand :p

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 11:59 AM
Drag it into the area to the right side of the dock, after the separating line and before the trash can.

Dragging it from the Finder sidebar is basically removing it from a shortcut list, similar to your Favourites area in the Windows Explorer sidebar. To re-add it to the Finder navigate to your Applications folder under the HD and drag to the Finder Sidebar. similarly add it to the Dock in the same way.

Thanks for the advice -- that worked. But I'll put this out there: it's a good example of "the easiest way you can think of" (to quote an earlier poster) not always being the solution on Macs. That would be dragging the Applications shortcut (one of the first things you see) onto the Dock, which does pretty much the opposite of what you'd expect. I don't think anyone would work out on their own that you had to find the actual folder and drag it to a very specific location on the Dock to make it appear. "Intuition" has its limits.

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 12:05 PM
You need basic fundamental information before using anything, including a new operating system. If you don't take the time to find out the basics then you make mistakes and you come to a biased opinion on usability.

I'm not doing this to come to an opinion on usability. I'm doing this to document the things someone making the shift from Windows (with a fair degree of experience on that platform) to Mac would need to be aware of. And I'm certainly going to be taking time to add to my existing (and very rudimentary) knowledge of how Macs work.

Several people (here and elsewhere) have suggested that simply thinking of the easiest way to do something (and not bringing a Windows-centric view) will work on a Mac. Even assuming it's easy to ditch those Windows habits, that doesn't seem to me to be particularly true so far, and it seems relevant to point out in this context. But it's not something I'm going to focus on in the actual LH articles.

HottPixels
11th December 2009, 12:45 PM
:p :D

glacierdave
11th December 2009, 01:07 PM
question for you.... when you first started using windows how long did it take you to learn it?? to get used to it.... i'm taking a fairly good guess in saying it took longer than a week! and you came across problems, yes?
the mac is still a computer but no matter how good it is, you need to learn how to use it... take the time to learn the basics of the mac and it is easier to use than windows IMHO is it better? thats totally up to the user...

Sorry, I don't see Angus saying he's expecting it all to be dead easy and no problems.

He's intending to write an (a series? no idea) article about his own experience in switching from a Windows-centric experience to a Mac-centric one.

As far as I can tell, it's not a review of a Mac as such. It's one person's experiences in trying to switch.

We haven't seen the final article(s) so we don't know what they'll say, but we're already criticising him for public comments (twitter, post comments) he's made about some of the difficulties encountered.

So he had problems. Who doesn't? Does anyone think that any other person switching from PC to Mac isn't going to ALSO have problems?

Sheesh!

(For the record, I switched. I had problems. I figured them out and moved on. In some cases, with help from this forum. In other cases, by using google. Some problems are yet to be solved - and questions here got zero responses.)

FWIW, telling someone to ignore everything they know and start over is also pretty impractical advice. EVERYONE is the sum of their experiences. At some point, a switch from PC to Mac will HAVE to involve un-learning some PC-isms and learning the Mac-ism equivalents instead.

In SOME cases, there doesn't seem to be ANY equivalent and you just have to learn a completely new/different process instead.

At least, that's my opinion as someone who has regularly (i.e. daily) used MS-DOS, pre-OSX MacOS, AmigaDOS, Win 3.x, Win 9x/XP/Vista/7, Linux (starting at RedHat 1.0), WinNT, Win2k, Win2k3, WHS and probably some more if I think about it some...

While it will probably be interpreted as such, this ISN'T a defence of Angus Kidman. Instead, it's a suggestion that balance is a two-way street and anyone who thinks there's one sole solution to everything is just plain wrong.

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 01:19 PM
question for you.... when you first started using windows how long did it take you to learn it?? to get used to it.... i'm taking a fairly good guess in saying it took longer than a week! and you came across problems, yes?


Yes to both -- but at the end of that first week, I could have made a list of points to remember for anyone else doing the same thing, which is what I'll be doing (in stages) this time. If stuff doesn't work during that process, I'm likely to whine about it on my Twitter feed, but I do that with all kinds of technology -- it's not new behaviour I'm adopting just for the Mac.

dotnet
11th December 2009, 01:25 PM
I don't know why Mac users always need to impersonate Apple's marketing department and fight like missionaries for the OS they believe in. If somebody has decided to hate Macs, or finds them hard to use then there is really no point in berating them for that.

If people that are new to Macs or just want to take a peek come to us with specific questions or pleas for help then by all means let's be helpful (this very forum is proof that we are). But someone publicly declaring Macs are bad or hard to use or no better than Windows or whatever doesn't count as asking for help in my book. It's flame-bait. Let us let Apple deal with bad publicity and go on with using our Macs. We have nothing to gain from "converting non-believers".

In the end we know that if somebody prefers using Windows it's their loss not ours. It doesn't diminish our own Mac experience. So let's not get too excited about it.

EDIT If Angus Kidman has any Mac questions or problems he needs help with he found the right place to ask them. As long as he comes here and posts them, and doesn't expect us to sift through his blog in search of his grievances…

Cheers
Steffen.

iCarllovesapple
11th December 2009, 03:23 PM
Totally agree with you - iCarl's rants are pathetic and make me want to slap him across the head. Then I realise he is 13 years old and it seems easier to ignore.
Very nice for a Forum leader. No my rants aren't pathetic they're actually pretty relevant Anthony. I'm trying to explain that Mac's are as simple as Windows if not easier.
Anyway, there are plenty of Keyboard Shortcuts for the Mac, you just need to be willing to learn.

glacierdave
11th December 2009, 03:41 PM
I'm trying to explain that Mac's are as simple as Windows if not easier.

For some things, yes. For other things, no.

What would you tell the guy who's using specialist software to program 2-way satellite modems (XP only)? Use a Mac? FWIW, he does. But not for this particular application - it's far less messy on a Win box than a Mac box.

What would you tell the guy who's connecting his cattle scales and NLIS reader (both Windows-only)? What about the guy who's using a GPS to map his property and import the data into his specialist GIS/farm mapping software?

There's no absolutes here.

Even leaving aside particular applications, some people don't want to be bothered with the complexity that might be added in working through these things - sure, I have my GPS and USB->Serial adaptor hooked up to my MBP. I have GPS management software installed in XP/Parallels and have no trouble. I have installed GIS/farm mapping software in XP/Parallels too. It can all be made to work but involves more effort and understanding than just plugging it into an XP box and having it 'just work'.


Anyway, there are plenty of Keyboard Shortcuts for the Mac, you just need to be willing to learn.

Yes, there are. On a standard Mac keyboard, though, not all of them are as convenient as on a standard Win/PC keyboard.

I miss having separate DEL and backspace keys even though I know that I can use a multi-key-press to get the same functionality - it's just less convenient than having them as separate keys that only need one single key press to use.

Is it a deal-breaker? For me, obviously not, I'm using a MBP. But that doesn't mean it's 'better'.

There aren't any absolutes.

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 03:43 PM
OK, hunting down some more specific advice now. Have connected the MacBook to my home Wi-Fi network. Getting connected was no problem, but the connection speed is a fraction of what I'm getting on a PC on the same network, to the point of being almost unusable. If I start loading the same page on each at the same time, the PC will finish while the Mac is lucky to have resolved the domain and located the page title.

I've checked the network settings and they're the same as on the PC. Problem happens in both Firefox and Safari. Have tried removing and then recreating the connection, made no difference. Rebooting (yes, that's evidence of a Windows mindset!) made no difference. The network diagnostics don't detect anything.

Any suggestions very welcome -- and yes, I'm wading through stuff on Google but haven't yet found anything relevant.

dotnet
11th December 2009, 03:47 PM
What does it show when you option-click the WiFi icon on the menu bar?

Cheers
Steffen.

AngusKidman
11th December 2009, 03:50 PM
Shows Airport as on, my network as connected, and channel/SSID/etc. details: specifically 802.11g, Channel 1, WPA2 security, RSSI -26, Transmit rate 54.

dagaz
11th December 2009, 03:53 PM
Jesus there are some pinheads showing their true selves on this thread - someone is taking the effort to try to use a completely new OS (how many of you who have never used Linux think you'd go trying to use nothing but Ubuntu for a week?) and he is getting hammered because he finds certain things difficult.

Mac OS X and Windows are two different operating systems that appeal to different users. I use both every day (Windows at work (and through Fusion at home), Mac at home). I personally much prefer the Mac way of doing things, but that is because I have used Macs since 1991 and have only ever owned an Apple computer. This doesn't mean I'm going to go out and attack anyone who prefers Windows computers or has difficulty figuring out how to do things on a Mac.

Please don't call Mac users "The Faithful". I find it offensive because you're drawing a religious parallel and I don't see being a fan of Apple products as a religion, no matter how fanatical some Mac users get.
Sometimes the religious zealot metaphors can seem pretty spot on.

dotnet
11th December 2009, 07:49 PM
Shows Airport as on, my network as connected, and channel/SSID/etc. details: specifically 802.11g, Channel 1, WPA2 security, RSSI -26, Transmit rate 54.

Your WiFi is obviously fine, does the Macbook get the right DNS servers via DHCP? Can it resolve DNS queries quickly? In Terminal, type "host www.dotnet.org" and various other lookups, they should take no appreciable time to resolve.

Also, what version of OS X is it running? If it's less than 10.6.2 you should upgrade before doing anything else.

Cheers
Steffen.

AngusKidman
12th December 2009, 07:21 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. It turns out (after an exhuastive analysis which involved several Mac specialist journos) that the AirPort card is actually a dud, which has rather put a spanner in the works in terms of doing the project at all. With luck, it will happen again when I can get my hands on a fully functioning machine. Them's the breaks.

doofus
12th December 2009, 08:01 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. It turns out (after an exhuastive analysis which involved several Mac specialist journos) that the AirPort card is actually a dud, which has rather put a spanner in the works in terms of doing the project at all. With luck, it will happen again when I can get my hands on a fully functioning machine. Them's the breaks.

Ahhh the force has not been kind to you young Padawan.

leachy
12th December 2009, 09:43 AM
I don't know why Mac users always need to impersonate Apple's marketing department and fight like missionaries for the OS they believe in. If somebody has decided to hate Macs, or finds them hard to use then there is really no point in berating them for that.


Totally agree with that, but it is not just Apple products some people find hard to use. It is other areas of technology in general.

If Angus had rarely ever used Linux before and decided to go a week solely using a Linux laptop he would have exactly the same problems. The same goes for someone who is an avid PS3 gamer who switches to XBOX 360, there is going to be differences in the experience that the user has to adapt and get used to.