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Lucas
11th July 2004, 04:53 PM
I posted this here cause a lot of apple people are in the design field. What I am wanting to know is talent or learning more important for graphic design / general design. Why I want to know is I would love to do a course on graphic design, as I see it as a great career skill. (not the same as a career). But I don't know if I have the talent for it. If you work in the field did you need "born talent" or did your courses teach you creativity?

Husq
11th July 2004, 05:52 PM
Well you are half way there already using a mac :) I'm going to take the unpopular choice - genetic.
After working with quite a lot of web/graphic designers, I've seen bad designers with Masters degrees/tafe degrees, and great ones with no formal education at all. The ones that I have seen that are good are those who simply love to throw designs around until they find one that works. So I guess if you love it, go for it.
BTW I am one of those who enjoy it, but am not genetically gifted at design.

Disko
11th July 2004, 06:04 PM
I agree with Matt. Creativity is something you're born with - you can't learn creativity.

Currawong
11th July 2004, 07:18 PM
I have a friend who draws for Disney....watched the Lion King? Some of the frames are hers. She was majorly into drawing, and was so good she applied and was selected among 8 out of 800 to get a job.

I believe there are two main aspects, the first is a serious interest and joy in design work, and the second is doing alot of practice and work for people.

The people born with a knack for something are more likely the ones who'll find joy in it, though.

moth
11th July 2004, 09:03 PM
As a graphic designer myself, I have found that courses give you the ability to extend and refine your creative ability. Design is all about creativity and concept, and without that ability to visualise a concept in the early creative process your design will lack direction. But a thing I believe is important to consider is that design is not just a matter of sitting infront of the mac in photoshop creating pretty pictures. To be successful designer it has to surround you. Live, breathe, eat and sleep it! Be aware of whats going on around you, whats hot, whats not. As a designer you set the trends and by conveying your visual message.

So in a few short words design is definately a gift that you are born with

hawker
12th July 2004, 09:04 AM
Courses, and the world give you a direction for your designs. You need flaire and an understanding of good and bad to be a good designer.

Remember:

"Good Artists copy, Great Artists steal!"

pipsqeek
12th July 2004, 11:19 AM
I'll branch off slightly here but keep under the same principal.

I am a musician. Not professional at all. I have had a few bands to play with and one major one.

I have been able to play any musical instrument within an hour of introduction to it. Not prefect mind you but I got the basics going enough to play along.

I am not going on about me being a vertuoso. But I will say that there are some things that people are better at because it comes naturally to them, while others will have to try alittle and some just don't get it at all. Even if its in their best interest to learn.

I also do a fair amount of design, photography etc. And I find that these things interest me, very much. I also find that although I can draw freehand without thought, a perfect image of what is in front of me or whatever, I feel that I have to try harder to get the result I want rather then picking up a guitar or sitting at a piano and just letting my fingers/heart and mind go off into their own little world, and come up with a beautyful peice of music.

So in short. I believe that for the majority of cases, its something that cannot be taught, but it can be developed. But you have to have it to develop.

So If there is something you are genuinely interested in, see if you can get some sort of tuition for it, and see if it improves what you want to do.

As much as I like to beleive I am a good musician, In truth I am not, and there is so much for me to learn because I have not had any formal tutoring in it. I do not understand one bit of the theory, I just play. Play by ear, join in on a jam session, but stick some sheet music in front of me, and I will stay silent, red faced and end up just playing along to my own nature.

This will hopefully change next year as I have decided (amoung other things) to study musicology at University after meeting someone that was in the same boat as me five years ago. Could play anything anytime, but ad-libbed, or after one of two listenings of the song. He went to uni and started to understand the theory behind the stuctures of music, the way and why notes are played the way they are played, why chords have a certain group of notes that make up that chord. Its really complimented his playing abilities, and I hope that it has the same effect on me as it did with this person. I consider him my inspiration to the course. And I will think of his abilities when I feel that the course is too hard, or thinking of quiting.


Steve

Jimbo
12th July 2004, 12:15 PM
its more like perfect pitch vs relative pitch, some are born with a sense of what a note or tone is, others can develop it to the point where its perfect but it doesn't come naturally. I have a better ear than most when it come to music, i in no way have trained it, it just comes naturally

Lucas
12th July 2004, 01:15 PM
Thanks for the replys, I sorta thought along the same lines as most of you above. I will still do a course but not expect to much. I seem to have a concept of what I like and don't like so I guess thats a start :)

pipsqeek
13th July 2004, 12:59 PM
The great thing about music and art are that there is no wrong.

Its all about creativity, even lack of creativity is still creativity.

I didn't play a musical instrument for years, and when I picked it up again, i was kinda pissed I had wasted all that time not playing. But my music style is what it is, and not playing for that time, its all part of the make up of my talents. Its part of the character that makes up what you are, how you play, sing, draw, design etc....

Just do what you want, if anyone says anything negative, take it with a grain of salt, but take it in, because you can always improve, always change things. But at the end of the day, its only their interpretation of what you have created. So you can either take on the suggestions or shrug it off and continue on your merry way, knowing that your work is your work and that no one else has interfered with its creation.

But saying that. 90% of your work will come from inspiration, so its not like its ever 100% YOUR WORK.

Steve

vort
13th July 2004, 01:42 PM
Ok i am a designer, although I dont have a degree or anything, i work as a junior designer at a record company. It really depends on what your going into.

OBviously for any kind of design you need some sort of creativity in you, because its not going to be handed to you on a silver platter. But the other problem is knowing how to convert that creativity into something real. That is where courses come in, personally ive given myself my own course, learning as I go. Ive been using various programs for a year and a bit now to get where I am, but i can go alot further. Simply in the factor of learning how to use programs alot more, specifically photoshop. So yeah, in my opinion courses are important. Unless youve spent every living breathing hour of the past <insert> months/years learning every backdoor for the program, then you are going to need a course. Because lthough like it has been said before, creativity plays a large part in it, you can be very creative and not know how to use the program.. and vice versa.

Lucas
13th July 2004, 02:28 PM
Yeah i am sorta after a mix of design and creativity elements. I am hoping to create a store image for my cafe and then chain it. I am about 12 months away from any major new stores but I want to have an image for the store (Great examples boost juice / us apple stores / starbucks etc) Ive gone okay with the current store but the shopping center owner is moving me and i want to take that oportunity to create a strong image that can pass from cafe to cafe. Hehheheh I had the store painted dark blue for 1.5 years and then i saw the apple stores in the US and went white and "glowy" and its a big improvement (sales and feeling wise).

I guess in a way I owe my improved income to the designers at Apple. :) But I guess even a biased mac user like me wouldn&#39;t say they created white.

dogmatic
13th July 2004, 10:42 PM
I strongly believe that creativity is not something that can be taught. In fact, most work I see these days from Graphic Design graduates looks so stale and "design-by-numbers". You can spot it a mile away.

After High School I did go to design school but quit after the first month. Couldn&#39;t stand being told what to do - how to do it - when to do it. etc.

I also taught myself web design and multimedia development in the mid 90&#39;s.

I&#39;ve worked as a professional web designer since 1995.

Today, I am the co-director of my own multimedia and web design firm here in Melbourne.

Designers are born... not made.

Husq
13th July 2004, 11:13 PM
In addition to the fact that great designers are "born with it", I would strongly encourage designers to study and take courses. I would say that I am naturally good at identifying good designs (of others) and integrating them into a design of my own. However the courses I have taken have provided me the lingo and common language to communicate ideas with others. I&#39;d also encourage courses in other disciplines that impact design, such as usability engineering etc. I believe you learn better ways of applying the techniques you are already good at this way.

InfiniteAnthony
14th October 2004, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by dogmatic@Jul 13 2004, 10:42 PM
I strongly believe that creativity is not something that can be taught. In fact, most work I see these days from Graphic Design graduates looks so stale and "design-by-numbers". You can spot it a mile away.

After High School I did go to design school but quit after the first month. Couldn&#39;t stand being told what to do - how to do it - when to do it. etc.

I also taught myself web design and multimedia development in the mid 90&#39;s.

I&#39;ve worked as a professional web designer since 1995.

Today, I am the co-director of my own multimedia and web design firm here in Melbourne.

Designers are born... not made.
Old post I know but your experience is almost exactly the same as mine... the working since 1995 is not though...

My favourite sell point to clients is, the skill isnt actually making the site but actually making it look good and work properly is the real skill and talent. I never considered myself creative but the fact I was never good at sports, always received good marks in anything creative at school and received top presentation marks in science and english projects made me realise that people are born creative. Some people just don&#39;t know they are.

What sites have people designed?

Some of mine:
http://www.ergo.net.au/ - Space Ergonomique
Flash MX & PHP

http://www.needham.com.au/ - Needhams CPA
Flash MX, Fireworks & PHP

http://www.rivet.com.au/ - Rivet Group
Fireworks & HTML/PHP

more at http://www.infinite.net.au/portfolio.html

anthony
14th October 2004, 10:04 AM
I tend to think design is just as much a science as an art. It&#39;s got as much to do with phycology as it does with creativity and you can learn science and refine creativity so it is something you can learn.

Design isn&#39;t a branch of Art, it&#39;s its own field. Studying design will help you refine your process, learn to use the software, help you network with other designers, show you great work and writings by other designers and most importantly give you briefs you wouldn&#39;t normally encounter in the real &#39;client&#39; world that will give you a new perspective on design. That said, I&#39;d say the most common reason people study design is to build a portfolio in order to get their foot in the door of a studio, and it usually works.

To study it you&#39;ve got to love it, if that&#39;s you then go enrol in a good course :)

thomas
14th October 2004, 10:14 AM
Speaking as someone who went through a Multimedia degree a few years back, i&#39;ll add the following:

- Most courses will show you how to use the software (Adobe/Macromedia type stuff) yes, but you still need to be creative to use that software
- I wouldn&#39;t say that you are either creative or you aren&#39;t, as it is something that can be nurtured and developed (to a certain extent), with practice
- It&#39;s important to be able to judge your work constuctively and gain influence from others (without stealing). I mark a lot of students assignments that are just terrible as they clearly have no concept of contemporary design trends etc..

I you are thinking of enrolling in a course, be it Tafe or whatever, I&#39;d put a lot of effort in before you start (the web is a great resource) to learning software tips and tricks and practicing your designing skills. That way when it comes time for assessment, you can try and do some great things, as opposed to still being a beginner.

Just my 2 cents.

Thomas

pipsqeek
14th October 2004, 10:22 AM
LOL

That was just a reason to plug wasn&#39;t it??? :P

pipsqeek

gizo
14th October 2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Jimbo@Jul 12 2004, 12:15 PM
its more like perfect pitch vs relative pitch, some are born with a sense of what a note or tone is, others can develop it to the point where its perfect but it doesn&#39;t come naturally.
i have heard to the contrary...
according to developmental psychiatry, perfect pitch can be developed in any child up until about the age of five.... don&#39;t ask for a link, cos i don&#39;t have one, is just what i have picked up from chatty psych folks...

Lucas
14th October 2004, 01:04 PM
Hehheh well an update - since I asked the question, my hopes now dashed I have enrolled in a Business degree at uni. Just doing design work for my cafe is hard enough and I don&#39;t do a "brilliant" job of that. There is a photographer in my building though who I just met - very artistic uses a new 17inch powerbook. He has no idea what wireless is or bluetooth still uses dialup on the flagship powerbook. I wanted to swap my ibook but I think he&#39;s artistic not slow.
I still love design and modern art but I have no hope of doing it myself but I do understand its value today in business.

Hobart
14th October 2004, 01:05 PM
i would have to go with talent and the enjoyment designing but if you dont know how to design websites like me then you should take a course learn what you need to know then.....*blanks out*.......do what you want.
(fuck i had a giant thing in mind and just completely forgot it oh well)

varsis
14th October 2004, 01:43 PM
Well it&#39;s not all about being creative well yes it is but you can get around that You can have ideas and you can usally learn this all your self from online tutorials and what not but im guessing a design course would help then you learn all the aspects as I have not and I have a design site/Photography:) http://varsisstudio.com/ But it&#39;s all pretty much how much effort you put into it and how much time you have for it, as i am still in school i have lots of time and practice on just making sites for fun but you may not have time for that:( but if you do it&#39;s alot of help&#33;

pipsqeek
14th October 2004, 05:23 PM
Sometimes tertiary education is a good thing because it may set up some goals that you may or may not be able to set for yourself. Or you can but you don&#39;t have as much push behind you because you are essentially teaching yourself.

And it can only help when there are like minded people doing the same thing the the same reason around you. I agree to high learning, just not TAFE NSW.

Next time I am learning something for Certification, I will more then likely be considering the (although) higher priced Private Colleges, which may be just as crap a learning environment as TAFE NSW (I am singling NSW because the same course taught in other states is far more relevant to what we have been learning - According to Decryptions descriptions and a few other interstate mates) And you will no doubt be paying more money. But at the end of the day. I have spent 2 years at TAFE telling teachers about network engineering, firewalls, etc. Where I could have only done that for 12 months at a private college, and the other 12 months already working somewhere, making a buck and getting on with things.

pipsqeek

purana
15th October 2004, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by varsis@Oct 14 2004, 01:43 PM
Well it&#39;s not all about being creative well yes it is but you can get around that You can have ideas and you can usally learn this all your self from online tutorials and what not but im guessing a design course would help then you learn all the aspects as I have not and I have a design site/Photography:) http://varsisstudio.com/ But it&#39;s all pretty much how much effort you put into it and how much time you have for it, as i am still in school i have lots of time and practice on just making sites for fun but you may not have time for that:( but if you do it&#39;s alot of help&#33;
Found a fault on your website, and you might not be aware...

Clicked contacts, now click 5. Contact Form. Bottom of the contact form (you have Home link back to website home, but the domain it links too is incorrect). You might wanna fix it :)

Edit: infact all the references to ppls email addresses use the domain varsis.com (and not varsisstudio.com) as the home link above is incorrect domain too.

varsis
15th October 2004, 01:34 PM
ya i havent finsihed the site yet... il fix that when i start advertising...