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ninja
15th September 2009, 09:50 PM
Interesting read about the apple tv not cutting through and that the market as a whole for set top boxes isnt fairing well. The future?? possibly a TV made by Apple with internet connectivity.

Oh how sweet it would be if Apple brought out a TV! I would so buy one. It would basically be a very large iMac with the interface of the apple tv and the insides of a mac mini

For the record - i absolutely love my Apple TV

Why Apple TV Must Evolve to Avoid Extinction | Gadget Lab | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/apple-tv-price-cut)

bartron
15th September 2009, 10:05 PM
AppleTV (the box) would sell a lot more if only it had a dtv tuner and record/live pause as standard.

FWIW I love my apple tv too. It's not a STB but more of a way to easily play videos from my computer on my tv.

A TV made by Apple though??? The market is saturated enough as is....and people donn't want internet on their TV (webtv (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSN_TV)anyone?)...that's what computers are for.

MrJesseRoss
15th September 2009, 10:06 PM
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2580/macintoshtv.png
Macintosh TV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_TV)

Brains
15th September 2009, 10:23 PM
Apple won't release a TV-set. No point. Not only did they try it once in the past and failed dismally (as HGHG's pic testifies), as far as they're concerned they already sell something which does the job admirably -- the iMac.

aafuss
16th September 2009, 04:11 PM
And of course, many countries use DVB (like us in Australia), others use ATSC or ISDB.

ninja
16th September 2009, 06:32 PM
Apple will still have to change something with the Apple TV to make it more mainstream but i feel it covers a niche.. That niche is any itunes fan will find the simplicity of it worth the coin

cosmichobo
16th September 2009, 07:01 PM
Imagine all the people... using an Apple television...

Watching tv shows and movies they've downloaded off iTMS - direct from their sofa...

Pulling out their mini wireless keyboard and surfing the net... from their sofa...

Using Back to Home from their sofa to see if their Mac has finished doing XYZ...

I could see it. Kinda fits Steve's original idealistic visions... and it would mean a lot of revenue for Apple via more media sales...

mitty
16th September 2009, 08:14 PM
^Charged Vaccuum Emboitment? :D

cosmichobo
16th September 2009, 08:21 PM
^^ Yes. :) Charged Vacuum Emboitment

Abbreviated CVE, this is part of a system created by the mathematicians of Logopolis to allow the universe to survive past its point of heat death by shunting excess entropy into other universes (Logopolis). The Fourth Doctor and Romana unwittingly travel through a CVE into a parallel universe known as E-Space at the start of Full Circle.

ZacDavies
17th September 2009, 08:44 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3259/3211856543_bbb6a9db72_b.jpg

Page 5 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zacislost/3211856543/)

bdude
17th September 2009, 09:20 PM
I'd like to see the Apple TV combined with a DVR.

matthew858
17th September 2009, 09:40 PM
I'd like to see the Apple TV combined with a DVR.

I think if Apple made something like the TiVo, but with the "Apple experience", it will sell massively. In Australia, with our crippled TiVo, we really need something like this, and Apple is the perfect company to deliver it.

cosmichobo
18th September 2009, 06:47 PM
with our crippled TiVo,

What is this crippling of which you speak?


And Donnie - whoa what's that?

ninja
18th September 2009, 08:41 PM
That TV looks cool

cosmichobo
18th September 2009, 09:03 PM
Gadget Reviews, Product News, Electronic Gadgets (http://www.pocket-lint.com/Apple+TV)

Talk of Apple entering the television market by 2011. Mind you, it's based on nothing.

ZacDavies
19th September 2009, 12:07 AM
And Donnie - whoa what's that?

http://forums.mactalk.com.au/19/57968-whacky-apple-concept-designs-1991-youve-never-seen-before.html

I gave the magazine to Decryption last weekend

davidw89
20th September 2009, 02:46 PM
Apple making a TV would be great, 40" to 52" inches, sweet white/aluminium design, similar to the LED Cinema Display, expensive as hell, $4-$5k etc.. Aww god that would be sweet = ). The only problem is that most people already have an expensive TV.

Ecto1
20th September 2009, 05:29 PM
What is this crippling of which you speak

No ad skipping and can not use cable cards to run foxtel through the Tivo.

I've been saying for a while that the Apple tv needs twin HD tuners, but every time I've said it on here I get shoot down. It's good to see many more people supporting the twin tuner idea.

KaighNyne
21st September 2009, 12:59 PM
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2580/macintoshtv.png
Macintosh TV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_TV)
[starts to shake uncontrollably]
*damn Post-Traumatic MacintoshTV Disorder acting up again*


^Charged Vaccuum Emboitment? :D


^^ Yes. :) Charged Vacuum Emboitment

Abbreviated CVE, this is part of a system created by the mathematicians of Logopolis to allow the universe to survive past its point of heat death by shunting excess entropy into other universes (Logopolis). The Fourth Doctor and Romana unwittingly travel through a CVE into a parallel universe known as E-Space at the start of Full Circle.
I'm so glad you two posted that. It's good to know I'm not the only guy on here who gets the reference and knows what a CVE is. :p

The_Hawk
21st September 2009, 01:18 PM
With the introduction of more netbook based all in one PC's coming I think it's only a matter of time before you start seeing a netbook like device with a HDMI port designed to just plug into your TV and provide basic computing facilities to the masses....

…but then isn't this technically what we have with the Mac Mini? (almost).

The Apple TV is an extension of iTunes and is designed as a player of content, not a lot more. Making it more useful as a PC would surely start to cut into the mini market.

Unless Apple go ATV-PVR and stick to the basics, they may as well ditch the ATV and just upgrade the mini with a Bluray drive and dual tuners.

davidw89
22nd September 2009, 12:46 AM
Blu-Ray not going to happen soon, it gives people a reason NOT to buy from the iTune store (movies/Tv shows). Now why would Apple implement a change that would cut into its revenue?

DVR - unlikely, as competition is fierce in this sector, unless Apple somehow creates something even more "revolutionary".

KaighNyne
22nd September 2009, 05:13 AM
Well, I for one am not really impacted by this. It's not like I care about TV *that* much.

<rant>

I also have, on my list of reasons why I dislike Hollywood, their predilection with making national and international laws out of what should just be company rules.

I'm not sure why citizens of, say, Australia should necessarily "have to" be bound by what Hollywood has decided to do. It doesn't mean I'm "pro theft" but I also believe in the sovereignty of nations, and in this regard I think mine is really taking advantage of (many of) you folks' country. That rubs me the wrong sort of way.
</rant>

I can't imagine when (or if) I'll ever adopt hi-def and bring it into my house. To me, anyhow, it just isn't worth it.

maclab
22nd September 2009, 08:59 AM
Apple TV + Beyonwiz + IceTV = One great combined product from Apple

The_Hawk
22nd September 2009, 09:45 AM
Version:1.0 StartHTML:0000000149 EndHTML:0000002432 StartFragment:0000000199 EndFragment:0000002398 StartSelection:0000000199 EndSelection:0000002398
Blu-Ray not going to happen soon, it gives people a reason NOT to buy from the iTune store (movies/Tv shows). Now why would Apple implement a change that would cut into its revenue?

DVR - unlikely, as competition is fierce in this sector, unless Apple somehow creates something even more "revolutionary".

I don’t really buy into that argument since most people would already have a DVD or Bluray player, so the reason to NOT buy from the store will always be there. I think that integrating an optical drive would just mean I could have one less “thing” in my cabinet, which would be a good thing, especially since Bluray promises additional web content which the ATV is setup to deliver.
Apple’s key selling point is how easy it is to click buy or rent some media, something an optical drive wouldn’t take away.

As for the PVR, I think the market it more than mature enough that Apple could easily build an appropriate device. I don’t know that it needs to be revolutionary (although I’m sure they would find a way), but simple things that tie into the iTunes store would be very easy... Like reading the program information and recommending other shows (or the rest of the season) through the iTunes store?. Or a quick link to “watch this movie/show without ads”, again with a link to purchase the content. Forget for a moment Australia’s bandwidth restrictions since there is large portions of Apple’s market which could easily support this video on demand.

YES people could record stuff instead of purchasing it (and hopefully be able to transcode to iPhone/iPod too), but I think it holds merit...

The one hole in my argument is always going to be price. Consider a good brand name Dual HD tuner PVR is edging close to $1,000 I would assume a ATV with all those feature would be price round that $1,000 mark, a little expensive maybe? Still I know more than one person who would be grab one on day one.

Zanorath
25th October 2009, 11:01 AM
Seems as though your wish has come true in sorts...
http://images.apple.com/imac/images/design_hero1_20091020.jpg
With its mini-display port in (plus adaptors for games console / bluray players) and eyetv your set!

cosmichobo
25th October 2009, 12:52 PM
Seems as though your wish has come true in sorts...
With its mini-display port in (plus adaptors for games console / bluray players) and eyetv your set!

Nah - too small.

I did think this when I saw the news of its arrival... but I for example have a 32" LCD television in my loungeroom... and whilst yes, it's the largest tv I've ever owned... I wouldn't want something smaller than it for "that" (digital hub/medium) sort of viewing...

BUT it does bode well for the idea of an Apple television... Just remove 50% of the iMac guts (ie making it an advanced "AppleTV"), and enlarge the screen another 18 and 55% (ie for both 32" and 42" models)... add a few more input/output ports... viola.

entropy
25th October 2009, 01:04 PM
I reckon the AppleTv needs three of things

Softwarewise, a wider range of codec support so that there is no more tedious conversion required.
to solve the problem of different tuners in different countries, a separate tuner (same width and depth as the AppleTv, so it can just sit on top), HDMI and displayport. And DVR capability utilising the appletv (or imac/macbook) HDD.
you could set up a blu ray (playback only) player the same way

the last two would sell stand alone, separately, for those that want them. And the blu ray player could work seamlessly with the displayport on the 27 inch imac.

A Apple TV unit, would not be worth Apple's investment IMHO. Too many options for the competition to deliver cheaper and better. A TV is only a big dumb monitor with a tuner attached anyway, and to be frank, not something I want to spend money on more often than every 10-15 years or so. And I already have a TV.

ninja
25th October 2009, 01:25 PM
Its no trouble at all converting avi's to mp4. Then everything works on your apple tv. If you have an ipod or iphone, you need to do it anyway

DagrtheSnide
25th October 2009, 02:06 PM
Mac mini with XBMC/Plex,
where more then everything just works,
no need to convert an already compressed format,
even less trouble then no trouble.

Of course when you source between 100 - 350 gig of media a month, you just want something that plays the media as is.

Not that I do that, read about it on other forums.

ZacDavies
25th October 2009, 06:08 PM
Main problem with the new iMac apparent television set is that it will only accept video in if the computer is turned on, as the video in runs through the logic board

cosmichobo
25th October 2009, 06:54 PM
Main problem with the new iMac apparent television set is that it will only accept video in if the computer is turned on, as the video in runs through the logic board

Then during the ad break you can jump on imdb to make sure that really was Lisa Bonet in the B grade scifi flick you're watching...

Phillo
26th October 2009, 01:28 PM
The reality is, I dont think we will see a Apple product with built in TV tuners anytime soon.

If you look at the way Apple manufacture their products, they create a product that works in every market they sell it in without any significant hardware changes. (except for the power cord/ duck head which is a simple "drop-in" product and maybe keyboard layouts.)

The only exception to this is the iPhone. The have annouced that they will build a crippled version especially for the chinese market. However, when you look at how big that market is, it is understandable they would make an exception.

ANYWAY... this manufacturing process relates back to the whole Apple TV debate.

Why would Apple make a product like a TV where the tuner needs to be interchanged for nearly every market they sell it to? The fact is that they wont do this. There is no economy in this and would add extra complexity to their manufacturing procedures.

We all agree that if the AppleTV had some sort of DVR capability, then it would be a no brainer and they would sell MUCH more than they are now.

My suggestion is that they leave the AppleTV essentially unchanged (except for a larger HDD). However, I would add 2 major pieces of functionality.


Ability to add tuners. How good would it be if you could just plug in your EyeTV into the USB port on the Apple TV?? By allowing 3rd party tuners to use the unit, you would negate the need for region specific devices. Plus... you only need to add the tuners IF/WHEN you want to.
Open up the unit to Apps. This has been discussed before, but if you open up the unit to application development (like the iphone) then the device becomes more compelling than before. This would also allow the tuner manufacturers to create custom EPG's and other programmers to create Weather, News and games apps. PLUS, it creates another revenue stream for Apple.


While I dont think that Apple will be allowing tuners to be plugged into a AppleTV anytime soon, I think that the App Store option is going to be a distinct possibility.

But... this is all speculation. Who knows what Apple will do with their AppleTV product?

nibbles
26th October 2009, 02:11 PM
Would like to see an apple tv hit the apple store with:

-32 or 42 inch screen
-built in blu-ray
-1tb hdd
-built in twin TV tuner
-Modified frontrow for tv tuner support
-Controllable by iPod Touch or iPhone
-DVR recorder built in
-HDMI, Component & composite inputs
-WiFi
-USB & SD Slot for Photos & Videos

cosmichobo
26th October 2009, 04:27 PM
Naive question no doubt... I realise there are many formats of digital tv - ie pixel ratios etc.

Does digital tv still rely on "PAL" and "NTSC" (and Secam etc)?

If not, then surely any tuner issues could be treated by software fixes...

~Coxy
26th October 2009, 04:37 PM
Digital TV is no longer PAL or NTSC.

Unfortunately, it introduced its won new set of standards; a few different types of DVB over the air protocol, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 codec streams, different resolution options.

Phillo
26th October 2009, 05:09 PM
Digital TV is no longer PAL or NTSC.

Unfortunately, it introduced its won new set of standards; a few different types of DVB over the air protocol, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 codec streams, different resolution options.

Exactly... the other thing is what other expectations a user has of a device.

In the US, you can use your own Set Top Box for decoding your pay-tv service. So the TiVO can be used for Pay-TV. Something that cant be done here.

So on top of the different digital tv standards, there are the subscription TV issues to consider as well. (satellite/cable and increasingly ip-tv).

These are all things that I dont think Apple will want to wade into.

NORMANDY
27th October 2009, 11:35 AM
Naive question no doubt... I realise there are many formats of digital tv - ie pixel ratios etc.

Does digital tv still rely on "PAL" and "NTSC" (and Secam etc)?

If not, then surely any tuner issues could be treated by software fixes...

YES THEY still exist... see this

Why NTSC and PAL Still Matter With HDTV - How Digital TV and HDTV Are Linked to Analog Television Standards (http://hometheater.about.com/od/televisionbasics/qt/ntscpalframes.htm)


Digital TV is no longer PAL or NTSC.

.

incorrect... again.... please see above link....

Dog Knight
27th October 2009, 02:43 PM
I have a MDD G4 plugged into my TV at the moment. The main advantage of that over an Apple TV (other than the fact I had it spare and didn't have to spend anything on it) is the ability to access information not within iTunes.

Like a lot of people I have video files, etc that aren't supported by iTunes. While I can convert these, I have such a large amount after years of being online, it's such a big job I don't even want to think about it. It's easy to pull video from any computer on my network.

The other advantage simply being I can browse the net on it. My partner uses it for the net alot when friends come around, they sit and browse facebook, search from properties, all on the TV. It's so much easier because they can spread out on the couch rather than sitting around a monitor at a desk. This really is a nice feature to have.

We also occasionally use it to play games like trivial pursuit, seeing we dont have the actual board game, we can still play on the computer when friends come over.

I know the video part can be countered by patching the ATV, but sometimes having all video and audio content in iTunes isn't that easy. I have a couple hundred gb's on mp3s. Not all of them have the correct ID3 information. And while I am working on it, it takes one hell of a long time to fix it all up. They didnt worry too much about ID3 tags in the napster days, basic info was enough.

~Coxy
27th October 2009, 04:20 PM
YES THEY still exist... see this

Why NTSC and PAL Still Matter With HDTV - How Digital TV and HDTV Are Linked to Analog Television Standards (http://hometheater.about.com/od/televisionbasics/qt/ntscpalframes.htm)

Even that site agrees that NTSC and PAL no longer exist. Only similar frame rates continue to be used.

NORMANDY
27th October 2009, 06:17 PM
however the resolutions at the SD range do matter, between Pal and NTSC.