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braex27
28th August 2009, 11:28 PM
So, during promos in the lead up to SL's release, I noticed that many of them said that SL would free up about 7gb of space.

I took a brief squiz at my HD available space before... it was about 159gb (out of 200gb)... After install, 179gb!! That's a HUGE free-up of space.

I have noticed any applications disappearing or anything like that.

Anyone else noticed major freeing up of space?!?!

NOTE: Not complaining about more space, just curious.

Huy
28th August 2009, 11:30 PM
It is plausible.

They advertised 6GB before. Then 7.

Walt Mossberg said he recovered around 14GB. I myself don't know how much I recovered because I don't pay attention to HDD space. I never use a lot.

DagrtheSnide
28th August 2009, 11:32 PM
I've read that Snow Leopard now reads 1 gig as 1000 mega bytes, don't know if that is true or not as my copy is travelling by Aust Post YAY Apple.

Edit 1000 bytes to mega bytes :p

timmytomtam
28th August 2009, 11:35 PM
I've read that Snow Leopard now reads 1 gig as 1000 bytes, don't know if that is true or not as my copy is travelling by Aust Post YAY Apple.

I hope that's supposed to say megabytes :confused:

yinyang
28th August 2009, 11:43 PM
Here's an explanation as to how Snowy counts 1Gb...

Snow Leopard's new math | Mac OS X | MacUser | Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/article/142471/2009/08/snow_leopard_math.html?lsrc=rss_main)

braex27
29th August 2009, 12:38 AM
I see I see. In either case, am most pleased to get more space, regardless of whether I actually need it!!

klif
29th August 2009, 01:38 AM
Here's an explanation as to how Snowy counts 1Gb...

Snow Leopard's new math | Mac OS X | MacUser | Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/article/142471/2009/08/snow_leopard_math.html?lsrc=rss_main)

How do I turn this shit off?

I am not a LAMER I want my units of base 2 back!

The world has gone mad and Apple is helping it happen, such stupidity.

If the binary units are

Yobibyte (YiB)
Zebibyte (ZiB)
Exbibyte (EiB)
Pebibyte (PiB)
TebiByte (TiB)
Gibibyte (GiB)
Mebibyte (MiB)
Kibibyte (KiB)

And the decimal units are

Yotabyte (Yb)
Zetabyte (Zb)
Exabyte (Eb)
Petabyte (Pb)
Terabyte (Tb)
Gigabyte (Gb)
Megabyte (Mb)
Kilobyte (Kb)

Why can't Snow Leopard use the new units!

Grrrrr

mjankor
29th August 2009, 01:42 AM
I got 11GB back on my iMac.

gurgle
29th August 2009, 08:03 AM
i agree, this does all seem ridiculous...
does that mean that when I'm told a file I'm downloading is a certain size, it will then be reported as a different size once its on my hard drive? cos that makes no sense.



How do I turn this shit off?

I am not a LAMER I want my units of base 2 back!

The world has gone mad and Apple is helping it happen, such stupidity.

If the binary units are

Yobibyte (YiB)
Zebibyte (ZiB)
Exbibyte (EiB)
Pebibyte (PiB)
TebiByte (TiB)
Gibibyte (GiB)
Mebibyte (MiB)
Kibibyte (KiB)

And the decimal units are

Yotabyte (Yb)
Zetabyte (Zb)
Exabyte (Eb)
Petabyte (Pb)
Terabyte (Tb)
Gigabyte (Gb)
Megabyte (Mb)
Kilobyte (Kb)

Why can't Snow Leopard use the new units!

Grrrrr

ChrisR_12
29th August 2009, 10:19 AM
Well i did a clean install and from what i remember when i done a clean install of leopard once its saving a bit.

capacity: 319.73GB
Available: 304.63GB

That's now and i have ilife, adium, skype, teamviewer installed.

areal
29th August 2009, 10:42 AM
How do I turn this shit off?

I am not a LAMER I want my units of base 2 back!

The world has gone mad and Apple is helping it happen, such stupidity.

Agreed. What a gimmick.


i agree, this does all seem ridiculous...
does that mean that when I'm told a file I'm downloading is a certain size, it will then be reported as a different size once its on my hard drive? cos that makes no sense.

Yes, the same amazing technology that gives us all more free space has the unfortunate side effect of making all of our files a little bit bigger.

DagrtheSnide
29th August 2009, 10:43 AM
Did the ram amount increase with Snow Leopard as well ?

LevMac
29th August 2009, 11:25 AM
Did the ram amount increase with Snow Leopard as well ?

Snow Leopard is now 64bit, which means that applications that were running 32bit could only use up to 4GB of your mac's memory, where as now that its 64bit, it enables applications to address a theoretical 16 billion gigabytes of memory !

For example, the Finder, Mail, iChat, Safari are now designed with 64bit code, so they will launch and operate faster....

NeoRicen
29th August 2009, 11:52 AM
Why can't Snow Leopard use the new units!
Why should they?

Reading your comment it sounds like you just want it more complicated so you can feel smart. That's stupid.

Honestly, what you want makes no sense, you're asking Apple to make things more complicated because simplifying things somehow makes the world stupid. Give me a bloody break.

The proper standard is that Gigabyte = 1000MB, Apple is being standards compliant, I thought standards compliance was a good thing. Not to mention drive manufacturers report drive sizes as 1GB = 1000MB. Apple has solved all the issues regarding hard drive space and reporting differences which has been confusing to non-technical users for years and you're bitching about it. :thumbdn:

You're just mad because you made the effort to understand how drive sizes worked but now (in OSX at least) that knowledge is obsolete. That's pathetic.

iCarllovesapple
29th August 2009, 11:56 AM
I clean installed my Hitachi drive. I had 250.06Gb's available. When I finished installing OSX 10.6 it used only 9GB's.. Very impressive :)

DagrtheSnide
29th August 2009, 12:20 PM
Did the ram amount increase with Snow Leopard as well ?

What I meant in my question, with Apples way of counting hard drive space, 1000MB = 1 gig, did Apple also used 1000MB= 1 gig for system memory ?

marc
29th August 2009, 12:21 PM
The proper standard is that Gigabyte = 1000MB
Is it?

I thought the HD manufacturers were using that and all other OSes used base 2?

FWIW, I'm all for this change. If the manufacturers won't come to the party, then maybe the party should go to them. Sucks to have memory and disks out of sync for no technical reason though.

MissionMan
29th August 2009, 12:23 PM
I noticed some things like my internet history disappeared so you'll probably find a fair portion of the space savings came from clearing out caches. It may fill up again.

NeoRicen
29th August 2009, 12:48 PM
Is it?
IEEE 1541-2002 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1541)


IEEE 1541-2002 is a standard issued by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) concerning the use of prefixes for binary multiples of units of measurement related to digital electronics and computing.
While the International System of Units (SI) defines multiples based on powers of ten (like k = 103, M = 106, etc.), a different definition is sometimes used in computing, based on powers of two (like k = 210, M = 220, etc.) This is due to the use of binary addressing for computer memory locations.

In the early years of computing, there was no significant error in using the same prefix for either quantity (210 = 1024 and 103 = 1000 are equal, to two significant figures). Thus the SI prefixes were borrowed to indicate nearby binary multiples for these computer-related quantities.
Meanwhile, manufacturers of storage devices, such as hard disks, traditionally used the standard decimal meanings of the prefixes, and decimal multiples are used for transmission rates and processor clock speeds as well. As technology improved, all of these measurements increased. As the binary meaning was extended to higher prefixes, the difference between the two meanings became more pronounced.

This is a common cause of confusion among users that see those amounts reported inconsistently, especially as capacities become bigger and bigger and the absolute error increases. This has even resulted in litigation against hard drive manufacturers (who report drive capacities in standard decimal multiples of bytes, while some operating systems report the size using the smaller binary interpretation of traditional prefixes.

Moreover, there is not a consistent use of the symbols to indicate quantities of bits and bytes ó the unit symbol "Mb", for instance, has been widely used for both megabytes and megabits. IEEE 1541 sets new recommendations to represent these quantities and unit symbols unambiguously.

After a trial period of two years, in 2005 IEEE 1541-2002 was elevated to a full-use standard by the IEEE Standards Association, and was reaffirmed on 27 March 2008.


In 1998 the International Bureau of Weights and Measures (BIPM), one of the organizations that maintain SI, published a brochure stating, among other things, that SI prefixes strictly refer to powers of ten and should not be used to indicate binary multiples, using as an example that 1 kilobit is 1000 bits and not 1024 bits[1].

The binary prefixes have been adopted by the European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization (CENELEC) as the harmonization document HD 60027-2:2003-03[2] and therefore they are legally binding in the EU. This means that legally there is no confusion because it is clearly defined that binary prefixes have to be used for powers of two and SI prefixes only for powers of ten. This document has been adopted as a European standard.[3]

Despite the presence of the standard and organization adoption, the new binary prefixes are only gaining acceptance slowly. The SI prefixes for binary multiples have been in use for many years, new operating systems and applications still use them. A major exception is Apple's new operating system Snow Leopard, released in late August 2009, which has adopted the standard, displaying 1000 bytes as 1 KB and so on.[4]

Supporters of IEEE 1541 emphasize that the new standard solves the confusion of units in the market place. Some researchers and software (most notably free and open source) have embraced the standard and use the decimal SI prefixes and new binary prefixes according to the standards.[5]


Apple had two options, rename everything to kibibyte (KiB) mebibyte (MiB) and keep the values the same, or keep the KB/MB/GB and change their values to match the new standard and the way drive manufacturers report. Apple chose the option that makes things consistent across hardware and software and that doesn't require consumers to learn new terms. Imagine the confusion if drives were sold as 100GB but computers reported them as a lower number in 'GiB'. Not only are the values different, but the software isn't even using the same units.

Apple is doing a great thing for consumers here, Microsoft/Linux should follow suit (unless Linux already does this, I have no idea).

klif
29th August 2009, 12:52 PM
What I meant in my question, with Apples way of counting hard drive space, 1000MB = 1 gig, did Apple also used 1000MB= 1 gig for system memory ?

According to Snow Leopard

For memory 4096Mb = 4Gb

But for disk space 4000Mb = 4Gb

Stupid!


Is it?

I thought the HD manufacturers were using that and all other OSes used base 2?

FWIW, I'm all for this change. If the manufacturers won't come to the party, then maybe the party should go to them. Sucks to have memory and disks out of sync for no technical reason though.

All other OS's do use base 2 (binary) like every Apple OS before Snow Leopard, but they use the unit Mb which is technically incorrect now due to the standards body saying the KiB, MiB, TiB is the correct measure of binary.

So Snow Leopard is the odd one out, while it is standards compliant, I would like it if the standard it uses could be controlled by an end user.

Switching between decimal and binary units, depending on what your used to and how geeky you are.

I'm super geeky so would choose binary and be happy to see KiB, MiB, GiB, TiB, PiB, etc.

kyncaid
29th August 2009, 01:47 PM
My 500GB drive was 465GB and is now 499. But judging buy the difference in bytes, the upgrade saved me 9,486,385,152 bytes so about 9GB saving. Totally better that the 6GB apple promised.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/3865921961_4989885154.jpg

Remy
29th August 2009, 02:16 PM
I regained 29.04 GB when upgrading from Leopard to Snow Leopard - went from 81.47 GB available to 110.51 GB available. Really made my day. :)

DagrtheSnide
29th August 2009, 02:35 PM
I regained 29.04 GB when upgrading from Leopard to Snow Leopard - went from 81.47 GB available to 110.51 GB available. Really made my day. :)

Do you think that Snow Leopard cleaned 29.04 gig of bloat from your Leopard installation ?

Or do you think that the majority of the 29.04 gig that you regained is made up of Apple's smoke and mirrors ?

Beau
29th August 2009, 02:39 PM
From the horse's mouth:

Understanding storage drive capacity in Mac OS X v10.0 through 10.5

Storage drive manufacturers measure storage drive capacity using the decimal system (base 10), so 1 gigabyte (GB) is calculated as exactly 1,000,000,000 bytes. The capacity of the storage drive in your Mac, iPod, iPhone and other Apple hardware is measured using the decimal system. We set this out on our product packaging and on our website through the statement "1 GB = 1 billion bytes."

Operating systems, including the operating system on your Mac, iPod, iPhone, or other electronic devices, use the binary system (base 2) of measurement. In binary, 1 GB is calculated as 1,073,741,824 bytes. This difference in how the decimal and binary numeral systems measure a GB is what causes a 4 GB storage drive to appear as 3.7 GB when detailed by an operating system, even though the storage drive still has 4 billion bytes, as reported. You will see this difference if you look at how your computer summarizes the capacity of the computerís storage drive or of your iPodís or iPhoneís storage drive when the device is connected to your computer. You will also see this difference in the "About" menu on your iPod or iPhone. The important point to understand is that the available storage capacity is the same no matter which system is used. Nothing is missing.

The storage drive in your Apple product, like all storage drives, uses some capacity for formatting, so actual capacity available for applications will be less. In addition, other factors, such as pre-installed systems or other software and media, will also use part of the available storage capacity on the drive.

Understanding storage drive capacity in Mac OS X v10.6 and later

In Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard, storage capacity is displayed as per product specifications (base 10). A 200 GB drive show 200 GB capacity (for example, if you select the hard drive's icon and choose Get Info from the Finder's File menu, then look at the Capacity line). This means that, for example, if you upgrade from an earlier version of Mac OS X, your drive may show more capacity than in the earlier Mac OS X version.

The storage drive in your Apple product, like all storage drives, uses some capacity for formatting, so actual storage available for applications will be less. In addition, other factors, such as pre-installed systems or other software and media, will also use part of the available storage capacity on the drive.

How Mac OS X reports drive capacity (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2419)

Gives me a massive headf*ck.

Remy
29th August 2009, 02:50 PM
Do you think that Snow Leopard cleaned 29.04 gig of bloat from your Leopard installation ?

Or do you think that the majority of the 29.04 gig that you regained is made up of Apple's smoke and mirrors ?

I imagine it's somewhere between the two. ;)