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View Full Version : Apple Upgrades to 2009??? WHEN??



flyboyoz
17th June 2009, 07:36 PM
Ok so with all the new upgrades and iphone OS3.0 coming out I notice there has been a bit more negative if not disillusioned comments going around from traditional Mac users about the lack of features that Apple seem to be deliberately holding off on.
That comes from all areas I notice such as (for only one example: the Iphone with a camera resolution far less than many other phones) / Macbook pros without Blue ray / Matt finishes, HDMI / and most of all apples unwillingness to lift their game with the Apple TV.
The apple TV is a good example. It has the best user interface of any system and the potential to be an absolute killer in this market however apple seem intent on ignoring what was once their biggest advantages. "Listening to what consumers want, and making it cool" In the case of the apple tv more and more experts agree and write (just do a google search, I aint going to list them ) that the home viewer wants a PVR that can record two HD channels, watch a Blu ray movie at the same time and download the latest episode of Desperate housewives for the MRS before listening to the music, all from the same device. OH and they want a Big hard drive to store it all on as well.
As for the Mac Pro (which I have one) nearly all users say the want a matt finish (and considering the price would be considered a premium product) apple still wont put in a blue ray player certainly doesn't help some techies (and in fact a bigger portion of the larger mainstream market), who are on the fence to make that all important first jump over to mac.

So why is Mac sidestepping and lets face it dragging their heals on the technical movements ahead that consumers want? Is it they're really that worried about profits and share prices that they think the only way for future profits is slow upgrades to get existing consumers to upgrade? Are they not chasing the larger market anymore with what jobs once said "giving people what they want". I hope not. Like a few others out there, the latest upgrades haven't excited me as much as some and I am waiting for the latest "wow thats what I have been waiting for" in quite a few areas.
So what do you all think?

Lutze
17th June 2009, 07:44 PM
I think that if you want to source something for an article you should mention what paper / site you work for.

A small segment of people want Blu-Ray - most users realise that they are pointless. Matt finish on Macbook Pro screens is available. HDMI is not required as Apple use Mini Display port.

Apple TV is great at what it does. If it doesn't do what you want it to do why buy it?

Apple dragging it's heels?? Oh yeah that's right they release their new OS in September, they have produced 1 new iPhone per year, they have updated their iPod range once a year and their laptops have been updated twice this year already.

Mac Pro users don't want a matt finish - Cinema Displays already have one.

Mac don't side step... perhaps you meant Apple?? And as I said - they don't.

NeoRicen
17th June 2009, 07:45 PM
Apple aren't dragging their heels, consumers are. PVR? So, 2008. Downloads? That's the future, why invest in old technology when you're trying to push the alternative.

flyboyoz
17th June 2009, 07:57 PM
Girls Girls... please don't get so defensive. I am a Mac oh I'm sorry "APPLE" user and fan. I am playing devils advocate and just chatting about things I have read. You ask for sources and as I said just google. I am not trying to justify a Doctorate. So i use what I read as a topic of discussion. I couldn't care if someone believes me or not.
And yes that is what many say "for example, apple tv is it great at what it does" Yes I agree, not going to argue with you on that. But does that mean it couldn't be better? Again I just comment on what I have read about and what it says most users (in the bigger mainstream market) want overall in a home TV/PC setup. Saying PVR is so 2008. Well maybe, maybe not for some of us here but for the wider market it is not. Hence the growing demand for TIVO etc. Again i quote jobs himself a long time ago "Apple is about giving consumers what they want, making it cool, and user friendly" Or something close to that.

Arkhum_Eramak
17th June 2009, 08:08 PM
Steve Jobs said that they flat out refuse to build the Blu-Ray DRM into the core of the Operating System, they refuse to compromise their code for someone else's ability to control when and how you can watch your movies. This is why there's no BD-V support in Mac OS. Apple have been on the Blu-Ray board since 2004 or so, they obviously have an interest. When and if it'll happen? That's anyone's guess. Will the Blu-Ray association (or alliance or whatever they're called) relax their BD requirements? They probably should, since it seems Windows users are having no problems ripping their BD-Vs. Will they do it though? Will Apple compromise the kernel? Anyone's guess.

And on the note of the gloss vs matte screens, other than the reflectiveness issue, isn't the glass on the MacBook Pro screens untreated glass? As in, clear glass? Therefore not reducing the colour accuracy of the panel underneath? I've never noticed the world looking more saturated when I've looked out the windows of my house, it just seems a lot of hot air.

Lutze
17th June 2009, 08:17 PM
Why the hell does ATV need a tuner?? You can buy 2 tuners for your Mac and use the best software available for recording tv shows there then export to Apple TV - via Elgato.

2 Tuners will (http://www.ht.com.au/part/V7409-Twinhan-DTV-USB-Mac-HDTV-Tuner/detail.hts) set you back $120

cosmichobo
17th June 2009, 08:25 PM
iPods don't have radio (other than via add-on), because Apple are not selling you an iPod - they are selling you iTunes.

The Apple TV does not have a tv tuner, because Apple are not selling you an Apple TV - they are selling you iTunes.

Adding bluray to AppleTV would add how much to the already relatively high price?

dolbinau
17th June 2009, 08:42 PM
they refuse to compromise their code for someone else's ability to control when and how you can watch your movies.

Like the Mini displayport which prevents people from watching their iTunes content on certain dsplays?

---

I think that Apple certainly are behind with their computers, spec wise. Only 3 months ago their most 'professional' product came standard with a 2600 XT. Even today the specs aren't good, but this is a classic argument I think specs vs price (Steve Jobs said in a keynote Apple have the highest (or one of, can't recall) profit margins in the industry, so it's not like the products are priced highly because they need to be).

I agree with the others about Apple TV and some other things being part of Apple's model, rather than being 'behind'.

Arkhum_Eramak
17th June 2009, 09:12 PM
The migration to displayport with HDCP I would say was pushed more by the people providing the movie content to iTMS rather than Apple 'wanting' it, especially since Steve Jobs seemed to take a very anti-DRM stance in general. Apple, on account of not actually making the films and TV shows that go onto iTMS, are bound by whatever deals they can make with the distributors. If the distributors demand DRM and display port (like HDMI) has it built in, then there's not much of a way around it really, is there? Am I wrong?

Is the iTMS DRM via HDCP built into the kernel of the OS? Or does it run on top somewhere? I believe it is the latter, making it have significantly less impact on the OS because it is easily removed when/if HDCP is finally given the boot.

ZacDavies
17th June 2009, 09:14 PM
Macbook pros without Blue ray


You're doing Apple wrong

dolbinau
17th June 2009, 09:29 PM
Can you link me to Steve Jobs' rant about Blu-ray and OS kernels? I only ever remember him saying "Blu-ray is a bag of hurt" (:P lol it seems like a 'classic' quote now, almost.)

Arkhum_Eramak
17th June 2009, 10:23 PM
AACS DRM tentacles reach far into operating systems - Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2007/08/aacs-tentacles.ars)

I had a bit of a google for it. Any proper look into the reasons Blu-Ray hasn't made it into the Mac have been swamped over by about a gazillion references to Steve's famous 'bag of hurt' remark. This article discusses it somewhat.

<edit> here's another article with quotes from Jobs.
Distorted-Loop.com Apple’s Steve Jobs dooms Blu-ray… (http://distorted-loop.com/2008/10/15/apples-steve-jobs-dooms-blu-ray/)

AnthoMac
17th June 2009, 10:31 PM
"Bluray is a bag of hurt." What IS a bag of hurt, actually?

Anyway the one connection I don't seem to understand from Apple is the FireWire Port. The day they disbanded it from MacBook people were up in arms, all because Steve wanted you to buy a Pro model for the 'premium' port. Now that they've put it back into the MacBooks and called it a MacBook Pro I wonder if

I miss Apple with their innovation back from the iMac era. USB ports standard? Wow, what a good move. Now they're not sure what to do with display connections (mini DVI, micro DVI, displayport DVI??), ExpressCard slots and blu-ray drives (hey pros use these for burning data. it's not all about the playback although it most certainly should be, save for DRM.)

Apple, have a team meeting and create a philosophy that will entice your loyal customers back into the confidence of your brand!

maghemi
17th June 2009, 10:55 PM
(for only one example: the Iphone with a camera resolution far less than many other phones)

I really hate this argument. More MP does not always make a better camera. Especially on these small in phone camera's. Often more MP makes it worse

See Here (http://www.quazen.com/Shopping/Consumer-Electronics/Too-Many-Pixels-for-a-Good-Image.326677)
In reality, we have now reached the point where the number of pixels is beginning to reduce image quality enough to need noise reducing software onboard the camera to overcome it

Lutze
17th June 2009, 11:31 PM
I miss Apple with their innovation back from the iMac era. USB ports standard? Wow, what a good move. Now they're not sure what to do with display connections (mini DVI, micro DVI, displayport DVI??), ExpressCard slots and blu-ray drives (hey pros use these for burning data. it's not all about the playback although it most certainly should be, save for DRM.)


I think you will find that Mini DVI on the Macbook. The rest of the current range uses MiniDisplayPort - a royalty free specification that anyone can make connectors for.

So you would not say that Time Capsule, Time Machine, iPhone / iPod Touch, Unibody is innovative? These things will keep Apple ahead of the M$ crowd for the next few years at least. Never mind the software developments that Apple has pushed forward with - that has almost the entire silicon industry involved.

RustySpanner
17th June 2009, 11:51 PM
Apple does seem off in their own little world sometimes.
Deleting the mic port and adding an SD reader on the MBP? Someone at AAPL is on crack.
I've seen this all before though. Things will right themselves. We've got to have faith. Remember the ADC? Remember the iLamp? Remember eWorld?

No, not really? Good, I rest my case.

Apple has given us some of the finest tech ever to grace the interwebs, but now they're kicking us in the teeth, and we're going to be damned thankful for it too. Why? Because when you're eating your food through a straw because all your teeth got kicked out, that straw is going to be made of machined aircraft grade aluminum and it's going to have an oversized glossy Apple logo on the side, and Uncle Steve is gonna be sitting right there next to you, helping you eat it, you hear me? Do you get my point?
Wait, what was my point...

woofy
19th June 2009, 05:33 PM
Yes the answer is exactly as above, Apple/Steve have reached a point where there is Apple frenzy and the answer is simply arrogance/overconfidence.

We are lucky in some ways that they are still putting out good stuff. Aside from the DRM side of Blu Ray, they are the single biggest physical medium to store and backup on.

At some point after the iPod became huge, Apple started dictating what people want, not giving them what they want.

And when people defend some dumb decisions, ie no MMS on a phone.."cause that's so last year, it just makes things worse". But at least they listen and fix some things.

I remember Nintendo getting very cocky to the point where Sony wiped the floor with them, and after that they still didn't get it. Took some very humbling floggings for them to claw back, so hopefully Apple and Nintendo still keep innovating.....

marc
19th June 2009, 05:59 PM
"Bluray is a bag of hurt." What IS a bag of hurt, actually?
Read the links Arkhum_Eramak posted.

For the record, I DO NOT want Blu-ray with the current licensing. I don't want my OS f**ked up, just so I can watch a movie format that will be dead in less than 10 years (and one that I have no discs for).


At some point after the iPod became huge, Apple started dictating what people want, not giving them what they want.
Where have you been? That's Apple's take on everything—they build products they want to use themselves, streamlined for their own workflows. That means it's the absolute best solution, provided you fit into their view of the world. It has ALWAYS been the case.

If only other companies were as focused.


Aside from the DRM side of Blu Ray, they are the single biggest physical medium to store and backup on.
Physical media for backup? No thanks! Not sure why you'd want that... Time Machine and an external HD or a Drobo and CCC or SuperDuper! or online backup are much better options. Doesn't Toast burn Blu-ray data discs anyway? So you can do it, if you want.


And when people defend some dumb decisions, ie no MMS on a phone.."cause that's so last year, it just makes things worse". But at least they listen and fix some things.
I think MMS was purely a case of Apple only being able to roll out so many features at a time at the standard they have. It's exactly the same as the Palm Pre not having auto-correction/preemptive text... they'll do it, but you have to decide which features come first.

marc
19th June 2009, 06:13 PM
the home viewer wants a PVR that can record two HD channels
The US is generally based on CableCard for their (cable) TV. So if Apple went down that path for AppleTV, they'd have to be CableCard compatible, which isn't fun (loads of DRM and licensing). If they wanted to sell to Europe or other countries then they'd have to include the various flavours of DVB-T or ATSC or Secam. They'd also need to source a good EPG (electronic program guide) in each country and have a team of staff cleaning it up and adding the tags for their purpose.

It's all doable, but I can understand why Apple haven't tackled that one (yet). It's an absolute mess—much worse than navigating the telcos and network types for the iPhone.

For the record, I do think HDMI would have been great on the Mac Mini.

Also worth considering: Apple is only one company. When people compare "Macs" and "PCs", what they're actually comparing is one company (Apple) verses several (Dell, HP, Asus, Acer + more), so OF COURSE there's more choice in the PC market. If that's what floats your boat, then great, go for it.