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MissionMan
13th June 2009, 03:47 PM
As a small company, we recently purchased MYOB AccountEdge. At $500 it seemed a great little product at a reasonable price...BUT, prospective buyers beware, all is not what it seems...

When it comes to tax table update time, you can't load your own tax tables, and you are then forced to buy their "annual support" at exorbitant costs to get these tax tables. In reality this is simply some data they load into their product with minimal time and effort but the result of this is they milk their customers for $450, nearly the cost of a new package. Of course, for this price you get telephone support (what if you don't want this?), reduced price training (what if you're already trained?) and discounts on a whole lot of things you probably don't want or need, or that make MYOB more money anyway. Whilst other packages out their bill 17-20% for software updates, MYOB are ripping off their customers who are generally locked into the product and the lack of manual upload prevents the customers using alternatives.

For anyone looking at any of the MYOB products, I heartily suggest you steer clear and look at alternatives.

Geoff3DMN
13th June 2009, 04:21 PM
I've never used the telephone support and I've been paying the yearly MYOB tax for almost a decade now (and yeah that sucks) but the simple fact is there isn't a viable alternative if one needs to do multi user, double entry accounting with payroll on OS X.

MissionMan
13th June 2009, 04:29 PM
I'm busy lodging a complaint with the ACCC so I'll let you know what happens.

Until then, its actually cheaper for me to buy Windows, Parallels and buy a separate package to run on windows than it is to continue to use AccountEdge and I will not continue to provide them with another dollar of my cash due to what I think is very unethical business practice. If they charged $100 for the tax table update but this is plain disgusting and I am not going to help any company like that succeed in business.

MissionMan
13th June 2009, 05:45 PM
Is there any legal way to bypass the tax update? I.e. if my accountant does my salaries for a month, is the tax file updated in the accounting file or in the software package itself? I'd rather pay money to an accountant than these unethical pieces of shit!

MacCraig
13th June 2009, 06:00 PM
I'm busy lodging a complaint with the ACCC so I'll let you know what happens.

I would also be very keen on hearing how your complaint progresses.

I am locked into MYOB and have just recently swapped from using the Macintosh version over to the Windows version running under Parallels (that way I can keep a virtual machine running a standard version of Windows and not have my accounting software stop working when I update my OS X). It turns out that they lock YOUR account file to the serial number of your copy of their accounting software so it can't be used with the same software but a different serial number. So when I changed to the Windows version of the software I could not use my - repeat MY - account file with the new software even though the file formats are compatible from Mac to PC. They will however unlock your - repeat YOUR - file for a cost if you send it to them after completing a form and paying them money.

WHAT?

In summary:

1. They charge you for support that most competent people don't need so that you can get yearly updates to tax tables.

2. They charge you to move your file from one copy of the program to another.

3. They charge you for the manual. The Windows version comes in a large box that when opened contains mostly filler cardboard with a small note saying:

"If required, you can purchase a hard copy of the User Guide for $26 ..... To lesson our environmental impact, we now only print User Guides on demand..."
And what about the impact on the environment when shipping mostly empty boxes????

MissionMan
13th June 2009, 06:13 PM
That's weird. I share my version between accounting plus and accountedge without a problem (different people) Only issues with sharing between those two is multiple currencies can't be switched on.

soulman
13th June 2009, 07:13 PM
+11 to all the MYOB hate - they're a bunch of gouging pricks in my view - but there is a way of using it for payroll without the tables.

I just keep a current copy of the ATO's Weekly (and Fortnightly) Tax Tables - the paper ones - and adjust the PAYG Withholding as and if required. It's very easy & just takes a few extra seconds per pay. I would prefer to not have to do it but there is no way I am going to pay those bastards every year.

This is one of the many reasons I avoid paying these mongrels any more than I have to:

http://www.users.on.net/~sunreal/images/myob_sucks.jpgThis menu is what you get if you right-click in an invoice or purchase order window. Note that a destructive action is already selected. If you happen to do this by accident and then left click without moving your mouse, your order or invoice will be deleted without warning. This is so wrong it should never have got into shipping software but AccountEdge has been like this for at least 3 major versions. Normally, MYOB will throw Microsoftian "Are you sure..?" messages for the stupidest reasons, but this happens without so much as a whimper. A complete fail in every possible way.

I could accept MYOB if it was like it is and cheap, or if it was fantastic and as expensive as it is, but the combination is pretty galling.

semaja2
13th June 2009, 08:44 PM
I only just started to use Xero but this is one reason i liked their model, it is serviced based and is 400 a year, but means you dont have to worry about the tax tables, and its the ultimate in multi user ;)

PS. My dad still uses quickbooks from 4yrs ago never pays fees for it, but he does not use it for multiuser

iTy
13th June 2009, 09:20 PM
Have you guys looked at Saasu.com?

What are your thoughts?

MM, I hear yo on the gauging. I'm about to move to SaaS with Saasu.com. Would like to read others' opinions

HeyCharger
13th June 2009, 10:00 PM
Could not agree more with your statements about MYOB.
I operate a very small SOHO business and purchased MYOB Business Basics about 5 years ago. Recently purchased Accounting and they actually want me to pay to have the files transferred.
They are dirty rotten scoundrels.
From their website;
How we started
MYOB was started in Australia in 1991 and was one of the first businesses to recognise the unique needs of small-to-medium-sized enterprises and equip them with powerful, accessible and affordable business management systems. From the outset, MYOB solutions were aimed at alleviating an increasing administrative burden and giving business owners the necessary insights to run their businesses more successfully. From day one, MYOB has maintained a constant focus on providing quality client support to ensure businesses gain maximum return from their investment.

What a load of cr@p. They are certainly NOT AUSSIE in their ethics.

Geoff3DMN
13th June 2009, 10:09 PM
What one also needs to consider is the fact that many accountants only support MYOB or Quickbooks (at least for larger small businesses). Sure some will do your business tax if you use something else but generally you'll find it will take them longer and cost you more.

One big reason accountants like MYOB? They get free software from MYOB in all versions they need plus access to packages which simplify the creation of end of financial year documents.

choy
13th June 2009, 10:58 PM
I switched to Moneyworks a long time ago and haven't looked back. Full Aussie GST support, and included FREE in the cost is a copy for your accountant.

MoneyWorks (http://www.cognito.co.nz/)

semaja2
13th June 2009, 11:50 PM
Many windows users use CashFlow as well

Geoff3DMN
14th June 2009, 12:41 AM
I switched to Moneyworks a long time ago and haven't looked back.

Just had a look at the website, the program does look nice but I can't see payroll mentioned in the feature list, does it do wages/payroll?

*edit* Never mind... found the FAQ which says it doesn't, although it says it interfaces with Smoothpay Gold.

MissionMan
14th June 2009, 12:50 AM
Could not agree more with your statements about MYOB.
I operate a very small SOHO business and purchased MYOB Business Basics about 5 years ago. Recently purchased Accounting and they actually want me to pay to have the files transferred.
They are dirty rotten scoundrels.
From their website;
How we started
MYOB was started in Australia in 1991 and was one of the first businesses to recognise the unique needs of small-to-medium-sized enterprises and equip them with powerful, accessible and affordable business management systems. From the outset, MYOB solutions were aimed at alleviating an increasing administrative burden and giving business owners the necessary insights to run their businesses more successfully. From day one, MYOB has maintained a constant focus on providing quality client support to ensure businesses gain maximum return from their investment.

What a load of cr@p. They are certainly NOT AUSSIE in their ethics.

What their website should really read:

"MYOB was started in Australia in 1991. After we got quite a few clients on our books, we realised the easiest way to screw our clients was to over charge them with exorbitant tax table updates because the cost of tax table updates would be cheaper than upgrading to another package. What we unfortunately don't realise is that clients remember and sooner or later we are going to lose so many customers that we will eventually go under, because customers don't forget and its harder to get customers back"

MYOB, catch a fucking wakeup. Its harder to find new customers than keep your existing ones. Don't screw your customers, its short term business logic that will screw you in the long run. But given the fact that all you've done is encrypt your MYOB file instead of trying to deal with the issue, clearly you're missing the point.

So, what do you gain? Well, the tax table update you could have gained is offset by the 10 customers I will be sure you never fucking get through my bad publicity!

Geoff3DMN
14th June 2009, 12:56 AM
To add salt to the wound MYOB actually used to have downloadable tax tables on their web site until some years back. Initially they were easy to find, then they were less obvious and then they were almost hidden.

Then one year I couldn't find them and rung MYOB support (which we had anyway) only to find out that they'd removed unpaid access to them.

MissionMan
14th June 2009, 12:59 AM
I think its the simple case of building a client base, and once you have X amount of clients, you are in a position to screw them because they are reliant on the package and the cost of moving elsewhere is too high.

Unfortunately, what they don't realise is people move companies and today's customers are tomorrow's decisions makers. After working with MYOB, if I moved and my company was looking at the product it would have been high on the product list, now it won't even be on the options list.

Geoff3DMN
14th June 2009, 01:18 AM
I've been having a play with Smoothpay Gold and it seems to be rather limited (although that may just be my lack of experience with the program).

There isn't any way that I can see to allow for -:

Periodic service grants which increase on a yearly basis but not by a fixed amount (a table is provided which needs to be input somehow else they'd have to be manually entered each pay period). Failing that a calender roll over which automatically altered them at the correct time frame would do.

Shift Allowances which vary depending upon the employment status of the individual (full time/part time/casual). To do this one needs the ability to set up multiple custom pay rates/categories and the ability to split hours amongst the varies categories (totalling the hours worked).

Multiple (and varying) additional duties allowances on a per shift/per time sheet basis (again a table is used but combined with a drop down selection avoiding manual entry).

Pay rates which vary depending upon the class of vehicle being operated and the type of service provided (as listed on time sheets/work diaries). Again this needs multiple pay rates applicable to each staff member (outside of normal, overtime etc), since overtime rates apply on top of these varying rates.

BiRDBRAiN
14th June 2009, 09:55 AM
500 bucks a year for accounting software to keep your records right isn't really that much is it?

In all seriousness I have worked with companies that pay $45K for an accounting packaging. 500 bucks is a drop in the ocean compared to what medium to large companies need.

Could it be possible you are overreacting a little bit?

When I used an accounts package for a small business we used Quickbooks for Windows in Parallels. And I believe the tax tables are still free for Quickbooks. Why not just switch to that?

If people just stop buying their products that is the most powerful message you can send. The ACCC have no time for this kind of shi*t. Plus they don't have any real power to enforce anything anyway, so why bother getting aggro?

MissionMan
14th June 2009, 10:53 AM
500 bucks a year for accounting software to keep your records right isn't really that much is it?

In all seriousness I have worked with companies that pay $45K for an accounting packaging. 500 bucks is a drop in the ocean compared to what medium to large companies need.

Could it be possible you are overreacting a little bit?

When I used an accounts package for a small business we used Quickbooks for Windows in Parallels. And I believe the tax tables are still free for Quickbooks. Why not just switch to that?

If people just stop buying their products that is the most powerful message you can send. The ACCC have no time for this kind of shi*t. Plus they don't have any real power to enforce anything anyway, so why bother getting aggro?

Going to the ACCC is about one thing, getting my money back and making sure other customers don't have the same issues. Do a search on the web and you'll find out plenty of customers have had the same issues. Until someone actually fights it, people will continue to get screwed. I'm glad to see that you on the other hand are happy to take it.

The point was that when you buy software outright, you expect to buy it outright, if the box said the software was a $500/year rental, at least you know its a rental, its the principle of the matter. The fact that you are buying the software outright for $500 is exactly that, you're buying it outright and you don't expect to have to buy a brand new package every year just to pay your salaries, unless thats how you've become acustomed to buying your software? The fact that they force you to use their overpriced updates to get the tax tables is nothing short of extortion.

Would you be happy with your Parallels/Office/iwork/etc if you suddenly found out it stopped working at the end of the financial year and you had to pay another full cost for the packages? I don't think so, and particular not where the update is merely some data provided free to them by the ATO.

marc
14th June 2009, 11:41 AM
FWIW, we just use the ATO's website and reference docs to work out tax withholding. It's a 2 second job. Certainly not something I'd pay $400+ a year for. I guess if you had 40 employees it might be more worthwhile.

Spreadsheets & Numbers FTW.

Vapours
14th June 2009, 02:31 PM
and particular not where the update is merely some data provided free to them by the ATO.

That sucks big time. Be interesting to see if the ACCC regard it as illegal.

Geoff3DMN
14th June 2009, 02:39 PM
When I used an accounts package for a small business we used Quickbooks for Windows in Parallels. And I believe the tax tables are still free for Quickbooks.

They were free last time I checked for Quickbooks and Quickbooks is the 2nd most supported package amongst accountants.

Parallels and Quickbooks is the only full function with payroll, off the shelf, alternative to MYOB that I've been able to find (which is why we've stuck with MYOB so far).

If we were going to run parallels then we might as well just keep running windows boxen.

Daz7
15th June 2009, 12:36 PM
FWIW I've just had dramas with MYOB also.

We've been users for years, when MYOB was marketed as networkable.

At some point (and I think it was the release of OSX) it became not networkable. We had discussions with myob around it being not fit for purpose and they supplied another user license and suggested we have a go but it probably wouldn't work and it didn't with any stability. They did however reassure us that they were working on a fix that we'd be upgraded to that.

Today, I tried to log into my.myob and can't it won't recognise my email address when I try to reset my password, I do however receive my subscription invoice once a month on that one though. Seems we've been dropped from their database for this - cool!

We're also subscription clients and are supposed to receive upgrades automatically along with tax upgrades. We don't and last upgrade I was told by support to just download the test drive version and our data file will just work with it. It did.

We've just been told that we have to upgrade to the networkable version for mac at a cost of $650 or something, as a multi user licence holder that has a subscription I would have thought we'd just get it gratis but no. The sales team leader just got all flustered and couldn't answer my questions and refused to escalate the matter any further.

Not too happy:(

sabretooth
2nd March 2010, 10:39 PM
I can see there are a lot of upset myob users out there, i used to be one of them.

The fees myob charge for an upgrade is just a blatant rip off, and really, what do most of us want it for, just the tax table update. Because i am a small business owner, i like to keep costs to a minimum, and if i can save some money by not having to waste it on an unnecessary upgrade, then i'm very happy.

At the moment, i have gone back to using myob accounting plus version 13 because i can get the tax table update for it. I think this update suits myob versions 13 and older, so if you want to beat paying for myob upgrades, you can get the tax table update from,

Trans Globe Media Products (http://www.transglobemediaproducts.com)

The file costs $40.00, and to me that's a far better deal than paying for an upgrade which i think maybe around $500.00

glacierdave
3rd March 2010, 07:20 AM
$500 per year is less than $10 per week. That's a small price for a business to pay to have access to an accounting system that works and is up to date. If you're drifting further into accounting systems you'll quickly find ways to drop $20k or more on the initial install with on-goings in the order of $5-10k per year in "maintenance and support". By these standards, MYOB is exceedingly good value for money.


The point was that when you buy software outright, you expect to buy it outright ...

You did buy it outright. You purchased software that does a certain job at a certain point in time. Doing this doesn't mean you're owed anything more than the right to keep using that software in the form you purchased it.

Unlike many higher priced accounting systems, at least it doesn't stop working if you don't pay the annual maintenance. Again, by these standards, MYOB does OK.


Would you be happy with your Parallels/Office/iwork/etc if you suddenly found out it stopped working at the end of the financial year and you had to pay another full cost for the packages? I don't think so, and particular not where the update is merely some data provided free to them by the ATO.

No, I wouldn't be happy. But that's not what's going on here. When Parallels v5 got released, Parallels v4 didn't stop working suddenly (neither does MYOB). Of course, if I want the features and capabilities of Parallels v5 then I have to purchase it.

From MYOB's perspective, they aren't selling a tax table update - they're selling a swag of support offers. That you don't want anything other than the tax tables is, for them, a somewhat separate issue. Many people running this software need the phone support when they're trying to figure stuff out (why didn't my BAS do what I expected, how do I set up my chattel mortgage details, how do I keep track of my equipment lease, etc, etc).

FWIW, no, I don't use MYOB (and never have). I use QuickBooks under Parallels in a multi-user environment. The buying group I'm involved with would prefer that I use their 'preferred' accounting system which would cost me upwards of $20k to install (including paying travel/accommodation for the 'installation consultant' to come out to us and do install and training) and then around $5k per year in on-going license fees. I'm trying to avoid this as long as possible.

MissionMan
3rd March 2010, 08:57 AM
$500 per year is less than $10 per week. That's a small price for a business to pay to have access to an accounting system that works and is up to date. If you're drifting further into accounting systems you'll quickly find ways to drop $20k or more on the initial install with on-goings in the order of $5-10k per year in "maintenance and support". By these standards, MYOB is exceedingly good value for money.



You did buy it outright. You purchased software that does a certain job at a certain point in time. Doing this doesn't mean you're owed anything more than the right to keep using that software in the form you purchased it.

Unlike many higher priced accounting systems, at least it doesn't stop working if you don't pay the annual maintenance. Again, by these standards, MYOB does OK.



No, I wouldn't be happy. But that's not what's going on here. When Parallels v5 got released, Parallels v4 didn't stop working suddenly (neither does MYOB). Of course, if I want the features and capabilities of Parallels v5 then I have to purchase it.

From MYOB's perspective, they aren't selling a tax table update - they're selling a swag of support offers. That you don't want anything other than the tax tables is, for them, a somewhat separate issue. Many people running this software need the phone support when they're trying to figure stuff out (why didn't my BAS do what I expected, how do I set up my chattel mortgage details, how do I keep track of my equipment lease, etc, etc).

FWIW, no, I don't use MYOB (and never have). I use QuickBooks under Parallels in a multi-user environment. The buying group I'm involved with would prefer that I use their 'preferred' accounting system which would cost me upwards of $20k to install (including paying travel/accommodation for the 'installation consultant' to come out to us and do install and training) and then around $5k per year in on-going license fees. I'm trying to avoid this as long as possible.

Then why not offer just the tax tables as a paying update? Surely those that feel they actively benefit from the support will buy it and those that feel they don't won't. I know why they don't, because they know the majority of their customers don't use the customer support. The majority of users don't use the hectic BAS functionality that requires support, or they get their accountants to configure it initially, but either way, I've had one requirement for a support call in the 2 years I've had MYOB and I refuse to pay $500/year for that when they couldn't give me a solution to a bug thats still in their system.

I had a graphics issue I queried in the initial 3 month telephone support period and they still couldn't be bothered to fix it in the updates in the 2 years I've had MYOB (my accountant tested it in her updated version which is how I know it hasn't been fixed). Numerous users have reported it going back more than a year before I identified it. So if they aren't providing fixes in their updates, what exactly are they doing? The problem save to PDF doesn't work. The email PDF does so its not an issue with the graphics in the document itself or the other wouldn't work. In short, if I want to save payslips to our network, I have to email everyone one to myself or the logos all come out in shocking low res.

When MYOB actually provide a support system that is capable of fixing major bugs within a 3 year period they are reported, I might consider their over priced support.

Incidentally, on the MYOB forums, they couldn't be bothered to respond to complaints on the graphics issue or most other issues. No "We're looking at this and it will be fixed in the next release". Nothing.

brawlster
3rd March 2010, 09:15 AM
So if they aren't providing fixes in their updates, what exactly are they doing? The problem save to PDF doesn't work. The email PDF does so its not an issue with the graphics in the document itself or the other wouldn't work. In short, if I want to save payslips to our network, I have to email everyone one to myself or the logos all come out in shocking low res.

This hasn't worked since MYOB was released for OSX. Never.

jb

MissionMan
3rd March 2010, 09:23 AM
This hasn't worked since MYOB was released for OSX. Never.

jb

I rest my case. Over priced support for issues that are never resolved. Every other OSX package gets this right except MYOB? Fuck them, I'll pay my money to suppliers who value their customers and actually provide their customers with service.

soulman
3rd March 2010, 09:54 AM
This hasn't worked since MYOB was released for OSX. Never.Seems to be the same in their Windows version too - one of our contractors emailed me an invoice from her Windows machine and it was completely borked. They are a hopeless bunch of gouging pricks.

Remember, anyone who needs the payroll function - just enter the correct PAYG withholding figures when you're doing pays. That's how I do it. Works fine.

If you want PDFs out of MYOB, just make like you're printing the form you want and save it as a PDF or use one of the OS's built in functions for emailing a PDF. That works fine too.

Cybix
3rd March 2010, 10:36 AM
I go to my accountant and dump a bunch of printed tables on his desk (expenses, incomings, etc), he does it all. $250 later. finished. Cya next year pal.

I'll never do my own taxes again. ever.

glacierdave
3rd March 2010, 12:55 PM
Then why not offer just the tax tables as a paying update?

Because MYOB, as a business, has decided not to do it that way. Like it or lump it, they have that choice.


... I had a graphics issue I queried in the initial 3 month telephone support period and they still couldn't be bothered to fix it in the updates in the 2 years I've had MYOB ... (and so on)

So, you're not happy with MYOB. Change to something else. It's not like there aren't other choices out there.

To be honest, though, it's been my experience over the last fifteen years or more I've yet to see an accounting package that doesn't have problems. Most of them ignore programming guidelines for whatever platform they're running on and seem to manage to be among the ugliest GUI's around.

decryption
3rd March 2010, 12:56 PM
To be honest, though, it's been my experience over the last fifteen years or more I've yet to see an accounting package that doesn't have problems. Most of them ignore programming guidelines for whatever platform they're running on and seem to manage to be among the ugliest GUI's around.

Accountants and computer programmers - 'nuff said :p

glacierdave
3rd March 2010, 01:57 PM
Accountants and computer programmers - 'nuff said :p

I feel certain they egg each other on to new levels of incredibly subtle elegance (I say incredibly subtle because I've never been able to discern the nature of the elegance in accounting software).

MissionMan
3rd March 2010, 02:00 PM
The problem, as Seinfeld once said, is that Accountants are so boring they're the only people who should legally be allowed to take drugs.

Tassiecelt
19th February 2013, 02:43 PM
I will join the chorus of those who hate MYOB/Accountedge
I've been locked into it for 15 years at least, recently my accountant talked me into upgrading from vs 8 to 11.5.
I also wanted to use the ipad app but found it was rubbish.
today I was told that the ipad version is fixed now but I need another $600 upgrade to use the "fixed" ipad app.

I'm thinking of Moneyworks or Xero, anything to get off the MYOB treadmill, wish I'd never seen it.