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supermariobothers
21st May 2009, 12:49 PM
When decryption posted the links to the new screenshots on the front page yesterday, I couldn't wait to check them out!

Unfortunately... I was a little underwhelmed.

Given that i'm not a particularly intensive cumputing kind of guy, I was hoping for some bigger changes visually. I remember when my little emac at home was running Tiger and my gf was running Leopard, I couldn't wait to upgrade, not because of system improvements, but because Leopard looked so shiny and cool!

The pics released yesterday don't look very much different from Leopard at all. Will the system improvements make the upgrade worthwhile to someone like me? (happy with leopard, not doing demanding OS related tasks) Or should I just wait until the next OS release, for that shinyness hit?

Thanks!

cosmichobo
21st May 2009, 01:27 PM
I don't think we'll see the shiny glimmering types of changes you are talking of until OS XI...

I remember the change from System 6 to System 7 - wow... And System 8... huge... System 9... meh. And of course, OS X was a whole new kettle of shiny glimmeriness.

But, from System 7 to system 7.5... well, I think one of the biggest visual cues was... a blue highlight square on Finder windows when you dragged something onto them. Yep... gotta love blue squares. And I couldn't tell you the difference between System 8 and 8.6... (Maybe it was the amazing customization of the interface that was then taken away at the last minute, and only available through 3rd party apps?)

This (Snow) upgrade has oft been referred to as the Leopard fix... it's not about bells and whistles... it's getting it right.

sighclops
21st May 2009, 02:37 PM
have to agree there, but at least give us the marble theme apple!!! will be interesting to see how much they charge for this too...

Exocet
21st May 2009, 02:40 PM
I'd guess around $199 like the other updates?

ford.boy
21st May 2009, 02:55 PM
have to agree there, but at least give us the marble theme apple!!! will be interesting to see how much they charge for this too...

I'm not saying that you're guilty of this. But i'm getting a huge feeling that cause theirs no obvious visual change, people are pissy and no wanting to pay for what is going to be a massive, massive upgrade.

Lutze
21st May 2009, 03:11 PM
Marble is still only a rumour. I've seen first hand 5 different builds for SL and none of them have any new UI look.

Apple have publically stated that this upgrade is NOT about new features, it's all about making everything work faster, better and to be less chunky.

Anything else is a bonus.

tcn33
21st May 2009, 03:17 PM
The reduced footprint alone is a godsend. Tighter code should hopefully mean an improved experience on older machines... the ones that are still supported, anyway.

SteveClark
21st May 2009, 03:20 PM
Do we know that pre Intel machines are definitely not supported? I have a 1 Ghz eMac running the latest Leopard quite nicely.

Steve

Lutze
21st May 2009, 03:22 PM
The reduced footprint alone is a godsend. Tighter code should hopefully mean an improved experience on older machines... the ones that are still supported, anyway.

The only problem, of course, is that the supported systems is likely to be reduced if what is currently available is what becomes available. It's certainly not looking like it's a PPC release.

It will greatly help those with a Core2 CPU or above. Core Duo will not gain so much as they are not 64bit CPU's.

NeoRicen
21st May 2009, 03:31 PM
A UI change is rumoured for WWDC. Nothing major, just updated buttons/scrollbars/menu bar etc.

kitsune
21st May 2009, 03:38 PM
I hope we see resolution-independence. Using the iPhone has really made me appreciate the advantages of higher-dpi graphics.

MacAndy74
21st May 2009, 03:53 PM
A UI change is rumoured for WWDC. Nothing major, just updated buttons/scrollbars/menu bar etc.

Really looking forward to seeing what new SL goodness WWDC brings.

Now for a dumb question, where are these screenshots that were on the front page. Can't seem to find them :nerd:

matthew858
21st May 2009, 03:56 PM
There were a couple of things the screenshots missed that may impress some people ;)

supermariobothers
21st May 2009, 04:00 PM
I would definately buy it if it promised greatly enhanced system performance. But JUST looking at those particular screenshoots - it didn't seem like too much of a leap, and I do so desperately love Leopard already.

Exocet
21st May 2009, 04:03 PM
Its not all about eye candy, you know that right?

Lutze
21st May 2009, 04:10 PM
I would definately buy it if it promised greatly enhanced system performance. But JUST looking at those particular screenshoots - it didn't seem like too much of a leap, and I do so desperately love Leopard already.

If you have a Mac that was built in the last 2 years you should see performance gains, certainly with Apple coded software. It will improve for others as they are updated.

Currently very few programs can make proper usage of your computers hardware. Even when it says that it's using 100% of your cpu it can do so more efficiently with Snow Leopard.

Better graphics cards will also improve your computers general performance as well as the operating system can also use that to do general purpose work.

I think that if there is any nice new iCandy in the OS it's a bonus. That's NOT what it's about.

supermariobothers
21st May 2009, 04:17 PM
Its not all about eye candy, you know that right?

Yeah, I know!! :)

But Apple's aesthetic choices, were at least half of what made me a switcher. And some people, do like new things, to look new.

I'm not saying I won't buy it depending on how it looks, but as I'm currently sporting a blackbook 2.4ghz, with 4gb ram for little more than web-surfing and word processing I'm just wondering if it will make much of a difference to me if I do use it.

If the price is right, and the features come highly recommended enough from you guys, i'll definately go ahead with a purchase!

Lutze
21st May 2009, 04:22 PM
Yeah, I know!! :)

But Apple's aesthetic choices, were at least half of what made me a switcher. And some people, do like new things, to look new.

I'm not saying I won't buy it depending on how it looks, but as I'm currently sporting a blackbook 2.4ghz, with 4gb ram for little more than web-surfing and word processing I'm just wondering if it will make much of a difference to me if I do use it.

If the price is right, and the features come highly recommended enough from you guys, i'll definately go ahead with a purchase!

You will find that Snow Leopard is smaller than Leopard, you will find that it should be a lot more secure and you will find that it increases system performance - maybe advertised with the following slogan (if M$ don't grab it first) Snow Leopard - now with less beach balls perhaps because you don't go to the beach with a snow leopard?

Japester
21st May 2009, 04:32 PM
You will find that Snow Leopard is smaller than Leopard, you will find that it should be a lot more secure and you will find that it increases system performance - maybe advertised with the following slogan (if M$ don't grab it first) Snow Leopard - now with less beach balls perhaps because you don't go to the beach with a snow leopard?

It's a good name. It's closely related to Leopard, but it's a smaller update (in terms of visible features) than usual. Actually very clever when you think about it.

MissionMan
21st May 2009, 05:04 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but I thought Apple left the UI changes until the final release?

cosmichobo
21st May 2009, 08:19 PM
I'd guess around $199 like the other updates?

Doesn't Leopard sell for $159 RRP?

Updates cost more than the main OS?

NeoRicen
21st May 2009, 08:27 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but I thought Apple left the UI changes until the final release?
Leopard was announced and seen first August 2006, we saw the final UI in June 2007. There were more builds after that, and then it was released October 2007.

We might see the same thing again, a new UI at WWDC, final release a couple of months later.

pengu
21st May 2009, 09:09 PM
I'm not saying that you're guilty of this. But i'm getting a huge feeling that cause theirs no obvious visual change, people are pissy and no wanting to pay for what is going to be a massive, massive upgrade.

just wait till apps that require 10.6 come out.

From my experience with non-technical people, a lot of them seem to not understand why it's worth updating software (even in terms of incremental updates to apps/system)

supermariobothers
22nd May 2009, 12:13 PM
...and what if I genuinely don't NEED to upgrade?

Given that as stated before, all i'm doing is not much more than word-processing and net surfing, why would I rush out and spend $100-$150 on a product, that isn't going to greatly enhance my user experience?

My little old eMac still does everything I want on Tiger, or would even do so on Panther, regardless of me being a 'non-technical' person, I just happen to prefer the way Leopard looks!

MissionMan
22nd May 2009, 12:16 PM
...and what if I genuinely don't NEED to upgrade?

Given that as stated before, all i'm doing is not much more than word-processing and net surfing, why would I rush out and spend $100-$150 on a product, that isn't going to greatly enhance my user experience?

My little old eMac still does everything I want on Tiger, or would even do so on Panther, regardless of me being a 'non-technical' person, I just happen to prefer the way Leopard looks!

Then you're probably not a candidate for the upgrade, much the same as not everyone is likely to windows 7 when its finally released.

Any upgrade is an option, which is exactly that...optional.

morn
22nd May 2009, 03:33 PM
Pfft. Snow Leopard has so many great under the bonnet features that I'm not even worrying about the UI much.
Whole OS being moved to 64bit. Even the Finder, Safari. Everything.
OpenCL, will let you use GPU for general purpose tasks, will make many tasks dramatically faster. Help with video encoding, Photoshop and much more. If they're written to support it.
Grand Central, make it much easier for developers to write apps that make use of multi-core CPUs.

pengu
22nd May 2009, 08:32 PM
You know that being 64bit doesn't automatically make something faster right?

morn
22nd May 2009, 08:33 PM
What you say applies more to PowerPC. With x86 usually it does. Many improvements to the architecture in 64bit mode besides just the 64bit.

cosmichobo
22nd May 2009, 08:50 PM
So of course... as with all upgrades... as noted... you're not going to see much improvement really until you pay even more money to buy upgraded versions of your desired applications... which with things like FCS... means... a bucket of money...

Yay, time for people to sell their old software...

FineWine
30th May 2009, 11:39 AM
AppleInsider has done a great article on the more subtle changes to Snow Leopard.

A glimpse at Snow Leopard's more subtle refinements (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/05/29/a_glimpse_at_snow_leopards_more_subtle_refinements .html)

robomac
3rd June 2009, 01:42 PM
Didn't they stress the fact themselves that they were going to be focusing on more core improvements/under the hood features rather than the UI? Stability first, looks second (although looking good is something they haven't had to worry about in quite some time :P ).

NeoRicen
3rd June 2009, 03:25 PM
Didn't they stress the fact themselves that they were going to be focusing on more core improvements/under the hood features rather than the UI? Stability first, looks second (although looking good is something they haven't had to worry about in quite some time :P ).
They never said anything about UI. Besides, any UI changes will simply be restyled buttons/windows/scrollbars, not a revolutionary new way to interact with your computer packed with features. They only said they weren't focusing on new features, which doesn't rule out any new features or UI changes.

dangson
4th June 2009, 01:08 AM
Didn't they stress the fact themselves that they were going to be focusing on more core improvements/under the hood features rather than the UI? Stability first, looks second (although looking good is something they haven't had to worry about in quite some time :P ).

It'd be hard to convince people to upgrade if all they can say is we have new changes under the hood. The "hundreds of new features" that we can see pitch is necessary.

Lutze
4th June 2009, 01:27 AM
It'd be hard to convince people to upgrade if all they can say is we have new changes under the hood. The "hundreds of new features" that we can see pitch is necessary.

I disagree. If your mate goes out and buys snow leopard and finds that "hey, my computer is running a fair bit quicker now! It's like a free hardware upgrade from software." And he can show you that it's quicker you WILL want it.

Snow Leopard should deliver great improvements in how the OS runs - newer hardware will get the biggest increase in performance, but anything that has a core 2 duo chip or newer will most likely see improvements.

When Apple apps are either upgraded or patched to make use of Grand Central / OpenCL the improvements should be cemented into users brains as something that they should do.

dangson
4th June 2009, 02:24 AM
I disagree. If your mate goes out and buys snow leopard and finds that "hey, my computer is running a fair bit quicker now! It's like a free hardware upgrade from software." And he can show you that it's quicker you WILL want it.

In my experience operating system upgrades slow down your system, not speed them up. Ironically, that's due to the new features that are added to get you to upgrade in the first place.

But most of my experience is with the Windows world so I might be a bit jaded. Hehe.

pengu
4th June 2009, 04:01 AM
But most of my experience is with the Windows world so I might be a bit jaded. Hehe.

except for machines on the very edge of support (i.e. a machine that would be unsupported in the following version) Mac OS X has been faster with each release, on the same hardware.

Lutze
4th June 2009, 08:01 AM
In my experience operating system upgrades slow down your system, not speed them up. Ironically, that's due to the new features that are added to get you to upgrade in the first place.

But most of my experience is with the Windows world so I might be a bit jaded. Hehe.

There is no "might" in there. You are. ;)

Snow Leopard is going to be between 2 & 4Gb smaller in size than Leopard. The applications that are built into the OS are all mostly 64bit instead of being 32.

Apple don't bloat their OS release. It's *just* an OS and this one has been pushed as a break from the rat race of Moar Feetuuuures than you can shake a stick at.

lazychef
4th June 2009, 09:24 AM
If you buy Snow Leopard when it is released and install on an iMac will it just update the OS or will it wipe everything and start clean?

dolbinau
4th June 2009, 09:28 AM
Leopard was announced and seen first August 2006, we saw the final UI in June 2007. There were more builds after that, and then it was released October 2007.

We might see the same thing again, a new UI at WWDC, final release a couple of months later.

I agree. If Apple want sales then they will have to at least change the background, some scroll bars etc.. (I know this sounds kind of sarcastic but I'm deadly serious), the OP who is probably more representative of Mac users in general is proof of this.

Lutze
4th June 2009, 09:28 AM
If you buy Snow Leopard when it is released and install on an iMac will it just update the OS or will it wipe everything and start clean?

It will just update the OS. Your home folder is safe.

Exocet
4th June 2009, 09:33 AM
You can either upgrade, wipe and install or archive your existing files and reinstall.

NeoRicen
4th June 2009, 11:00 AM
It'd be hard to convince people to upgrade if all they can say is we have new changes under the hood. The "hundreds of new features" that we can see pitch is necessary.
That's assuming it costs a lot.

I'm also expecting a lot of future Apple apps, particularly the pro apps, to require the new OS, which would force many to upgrade, not to mention the fact that all new machines will be shipping with the new OS.

Don't forget the Exchange support, that's a pretty big new feature that, given the right price, will convince a lot of users and businesses to upgrade/buy new macs.

Then there's die-hard idiots like me who already know they want to upgrade just because it's new. :D

There's also the possibility Apple doesn't care if people upgrade to 10.6, and Apple merely sees 10.6 as releasing OSX with all the under the hood changes as a way to make a little bit of money between 10.5 and the 'real' upgrade, 10.7, with tons of new features taking advantage of the changes to the OS they are releasing with 10.6.