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asqy
10th May 2005, 11:52 PM
Great laptop, but soon to be obsolete, November 2, 2004
Reviewer: MrPuddles (Texas) - See all my reviews
The iBook is a great laptop - especially for those who are interested in trying out a mac. However, these laptops lack the minimum graphics card to support all of the features in the next MacOSX release (10.4) which will occur by May at the latest.

Which means that Apple is unloading these iBooks to clear their inventory of the substandard graphics card and will soon upgrade this system to a GeForce card that supports pixel shading. Otherwise, MacOSX 10.4 will run slower on your machine because the graphics will be totally loaded under your CPU. With future iBooks, the upgraded graphics card will unload the graphics to the GPU. Huge speed difference. You might want to hold out purchasing an iBook for a few more months.

This also could mean a total redesign of the iBook, but that is totally speculative.



[Topic Title edited by spargo :) ]

Kildare
11th May 2005, 12:05 AM
Bought an iBook a month or so ago & been running Tiger since release.
No complaints here although I can see why Apple might swap the GPU in the next release - however I can't see a "total redesign" being required.

Considering the quote is over 6 months old & we're here & now the iBook still holds it own as the budget option.

bdanielb
11th May 2005, 12:06 AM
This also could mean a total redesign of the iBook, but that is totally speculative.

the current shape/model ibooks have been out for a while now... and they didn't get upgraded with the Imacs.... Im thinking the same thing.

marc
11th May 2005, 12:07 AM
"totally loaded under your CPU" = exactly the way things were before Quartz Extreme, and the way is it for almost every other OS in the world.

Don't stress.

My older MDD G4 doesn't support pixel shading, but Tiger runs just fine.

Sure, maybe wait to buy if you're about to, but it's no cause for concern if you already have an iBook.

If there's ever any doubt about an Apple purchase, then check buyersguide.macrumors.com (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/) first :)

Kildare
11th May 2005, 12:09 AM
You can always wait for the "next best thing" & end up with nothing. :P

I jumped in on the "Cram n Jam" promo & scored a cheap iBook & points with my gf for getting her an iPod. Win win situation. ;)

ooda
11th May 2005, 12:14 AM
So I take it Mac Mini's are now obsolete?

spyhunter
11th May 2005, 12:32 AM
Oh no! I have to get rid of my iBook super fast. It seems to run Tiger just fine, but if it's obsolete, then I guess I have no choice...

downsys
11th May 2005, 01:42 AM
haha...don't bully the topic starter. i'm sure he meant well :P. personally, i don't see iBooks becoming obsolete. so we can't run Core Image, that's okay. we can get the new eMacs for that if need be :). the iBook's a wonderful machine, no doubt. and i don't see the need for a redesign yet (maybe something minor like the change from Snow G3s to G4s). apart from that, it's one hellova machine still. Mac - I'm Lovin' It. (only getting into my first year with Macs...whoa, time flies so fast, i'm still awed by the great things to download from macupdate)

Currawong
11th May 2005, 05:01 AM
The purpose of Core Image is to allow programs like Motion 2 to render effects real-time using the GPU rather than the CPU to do the work. As people don't buy iBooks to run Motion, that you don't get a couple of fancy GPU-rendered effects is going to make no effective difference to the end user.

However, it doesn'tmean that 10.4 will run slower on the iBooks.

titan44
11th May 2005, 07:56 AM
I run tiger on my g3 Ibook, runs fine.

Arkhum_Eramak
11th May 2005, 07:58 AM
Well, my iBook G4 800 is running Tiger and if anything I've seen nothing but Quartz Extreme improvements and minimal performance increases. Even my mates PowerMac G3 has been boosted, his graphics card (an ATi 7000 PCI) used to cap at about 27FPS with the visualiser in fullscreen but under Tiger gets up to 80FPS. Thats a little off-topic, but his card can't even run Quartz Extreme properly at all (Expose and Dashboard are laggy mclag), but...meh...

Devski
11th May 2005, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by asqy@May 10 2005, 11:52 PM
Otherwise, MacOSX 10.4 will run slower on your machine because the graphics will be totally loaded under your CPU. With future iBooks, the upgraded graphics card will unload the graphics to the GPU. Huge speed difference.
I've heard less scare mongering from US presidents.

Yes, you will see better performance when using Core Image, which is a fantastic technology for some purposes, but it's certainly not used all the time. When it's not being used, there will be no speed difference.

Stating there will be a 'Huge speed difference' is just crap.

asqy
11th May 2005, 08:59 AM
What IS core image...?

Devski
11th May 2005, 09:17 AM
Core Image provides a few things, here are the main bits:
Firstly, a more common interface for developers to write software for perfoming manipulation on images.

Secondly, it allows load sharing of per pixel calculations between the CPU and GPU (providing the GPU is supported). In simpler terms, it allows the GPU to take some load from the CPU for some graphics operations (not all).

In order for core image to be utilised, the code must have been written to support core image, otherwise there is no effect at all.

Jimbo
11th May 2005, 09:20 AM
its the new apple logo :D

zefi
11th May 2005, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by Currawong@May 11 2005, 05:01 AM
However, it doesn'tmean that 10.4 will run slower on the iBooks.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was very worried, that I might have to stick with Panther...

Devski
11th May 2005, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by zefi@May 11 2005, 09:22 AM
Thanks for clearing that up. I was very worried, that I might have to stick with Panther...
It's a very valid point.

The iBook will still run faster with Tiger and will still use Core Image, regardless of the GPU.

Tiger is even faster again if it has a Core Image supported GPU.

Phillip
11th May 2005, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by asqy@May 10 2005, 11:52 PM
Which means that Apple is unloading these iBooks to clear their inventory of the substandard graphics card and will soon upgrade this system to a GeForce card that supports pixel shading. Otherwise, MacOSX 10.4 will run slower on your machine because the graphics will be totally loaded under your CPU. With future iBooks, the upgraded graphics card will unload the graphics to the GPU. Huge speed difference. You might want to hold out purchasing an iBook for a few more months.
This guy sorta gets it and sorta doesn't. :rolleyes:

Yes, your system will run faster, (not CoreImage, because it runs in realtime regardless) if you have a compatible GPU. However, is Mail going to be suddenly faster? Safari? What about iTunes? No. They don't use CoreImage. In fact, the only app I can think of the uses CoreImage that Apple is shipping is Dashboard (for the slow ripple effect), Motion (I am not sure if the frameworks are slightly different), and Keynote. Not that big of a deal compared to first thought hey?

scruffie
11th May 2005, 05:37 PM
I want that ripple effect goddamit!
Was so disappointed after installing it on friday and it didn't ripple. But after intensive therapy, I'm totally over it now :D

asqy
11th May 2005, 06:06 PM
So will Tiger, all in all, will run faster than panther?

Does that mean applications like MS word will work faster?

Currawong
11th May 2005, 06:12 PM
Mac OS X 10.2 had the addition of Quartz Extreme, which allowed the GPU to do the work of rendering visual effects and the user interface using the Graphics processor (GPU). On machines with ATI Radeon or NVidia Geforce graphics processors or better, this did have an effect on performance, as the CPU wasn't required to draw graphics any longer.

As GPU's have improved, so have their features. All Core Image refers to is Apple's use of the new features, but embedded into Mac OS X. These effects are only usually used by 3D games to render complex landscapes that look somewhat real. Apple is using them so that any program can be written that can render using these effects in real time by using the graphics processor. Their example of this is Motion.

To get an understanding of what is going on in Mac OS X would be the ARS Technica article (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars). It's long, but worth reading.