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View Full Version : Pondering a switch PC > MAC



Philljc
24th November 2008, 04:18 PM
Hello.

At the moment I'm using a Windows based laptop with the following specs.

Dell 1720, T7700 C2D, 4GB ram, 600GB HDD and a 8600GT on a 17inch monitor.

Im thinking of getting the base model new MBP which consists of:

2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 15-inch widescreen, 4GB Memory, 320GB hard drive1, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB.

What I want to know is, for the parts that come with the MBP, why is it so bloody expensive? I got the 1720 with all those add ons, a YEAR ago for almost the same exact price. I do alot of work with Flash, Photoshop and Fireworks so would there be a performance increase at all with the Mac? Does Leopard run things better than XP/Vista?

I guess my overall question is, what the point? I've yet to see the *big* upside other than it weighing a lot less. I'm trying to convince myself (so are a few other people) but looking at the specs and prices the Mac isn't selling itself that well. And I am definately upgrading regardless, I will not be sticking with the back breaker.

The one I configured comes to $4498 – not that different from base model though. Damn insurance coverage plan!

MissionMan
24th November 2008, 04:35 PM
Go into a store and have a look at the quality difference between the two. I don't think you will find them comparable.

iRyan21
24th November 2008, 04:38 PM
Ultimately the software (Mac OS X) and the build quality are not comparable at all.
It's like that old saying goes: "you get what you pay for.."

Darwiniandude
24th November 2008, 04:46 PM
Had it not been for the aussie dollar hike, the new MBP would have been ~$2899. You need to factor that in.

They are built exceptionally well, don't flex/creak etc.

Don't worry about the hard disk size, pickup 500GB WD 2.5" sata for ~$250 and pop it in, they're cheap now.

A T7100 is 1.8 GHZ I think, so the MBP is a lot faster. Also when I looked up the Dell 1720 it seems like it came with a 320GB drive, not a 600gb... I didn't think 600gb notebook drives existed yet, unless it's a desktop replacement machine with a 3.5" drive.

Anyway, yes they are more expensive, but regardless, I'll never buy a PC again. (unless it's for a freenas box or somesuch)

If you knew me, you'd know that not wanting a PC ever again is a pretty massive thing :)

Joe91
24th November 2008, 05:13 PM
I was in the same position as you not long ago (few weeks).

At the end of the day - it's expensive because of two things:

Mac OS X
Build Quality

cosmichobo
24th November 2008, 05:56 PM
Apple controls the hardware and software... their system is a lot more stable than Windows machines that are built by "2" different entities - ie Windows and the hardware manufacturers.

Also Apple spends a lot on R&D... there's a lot of tech out there in the computer market that was pioneered or improved by Apple. That means you pay a bit more for their products.

Do you want to live in the penthouse, or the baesment... Using a Mac gives you a better view. :)

Philljc
24th November 2008, 06:28 PM
A T7100 is 1.8 GHZ I think, so the MBP is a lot faster.

Its a T7700, not T7100.


Also when I looked up the Dell 1720 it seems like it came with a 320GB drive, not a 600gb... I didn't think 600gb notebook drives existed yet, unless it's a desktop replacement machine with a 3.5" drive.

Its actually 640GB to be exact, it has 2 HDD's in it.

I think I'll get one. I just hope I can sell this heap of junk for something decent. Also regarding the build quality, my brother dropped his (last generation) MBP about a foot and the whole thing cracked, screen shattered and the HDD broke. I've dropped my Dell (shitty, but it held up) at least 3 times (or someones tripped over the power cord) and it hasn't faulted once.

tdm911
24th November 2008, 06:46 PM
Don't forget you also get DDR3 RAM and 2 video cards, both features which are not available in many (any?) PC laptops as of yet, so you're paying a little extra for being an early adopter.

I am typing this on my new MacBook, after switching from a life of Windows and there really is NO comparison!

Philljc
24th November 2008, 06:48 PM
But what do you mean 'no comparison'? It seems to get thrown around a lot here and everywhere else without much of an explanation. It would be good if you and other people who have gone from PC's could elaborate on why there is no comparison.

Oh, and the MBP will work better with my iPhone too apparently!

vecsty
24th November 2008, 07:52 PM
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mestevie
24th November 2008, 08:01 PM
have posted this before here but relevant.....

I purchased my MacBook at the exact same time that my work gave me a brand new lenovo thinkpad 14". At the time I ran a few casual performance tests as they were similarly specced and they came out about even.

Now I have loaded up both machines with lots of different software to suit their different purposes. On the lenovo I do regular maintenance tasks including registry cleanups and disk defrag. On the MacBook I do nothing with regards to maintenance.

1 year later. The lenovo runs like a dog, whereas the MacBook runs like the day I bought it. To me this has been a clincher real world comparison. The time I have spent at work trying to maintain the lenovo and the reboots and the looong shutdowns and start ups just do not happen on osx.

It's all about quality engineering.

Supreme
24th November 2008, 08:06 PM
It's a Mac, prices are higher. If you don't wanna pay, don't buy it.

TJA77
24th November 2008, 08:24 PM
But what do you mean 'no comparison'? It seems to get thrown around a lot here and everywhere else without much of an explanation. It would be good if you and other people who have gone from PC's could elaborate on why there is no comparison.

Oh, and the MBP will work better with my iPhone too apparently!

You just have to use one for a little while and you will see how much better a mac holds up. It doesnt shit itself when you load up the hard drive with loads of stuff, it still boots and shuts down as if there was nothing installed on it

The new macbook/pro's are just a pleasure to use. The new glass trackpad is miles ahead with things it can do compared to a windows lappy not to mention the features of OSX which again is miles ahead of windows

tdm911
24th November 2008, 08:27 PM
But what do you mean 'no comparison'? It seems to get thrown around a lot here and everywhere else without much of an explanation. It would be good if you and other people who have gone from PC's could elaborate on why there is no comparison.

You're right, it is thrown around a lot, but from my experience, here's why:

OS X is a far better OS than Windows (Vista or XP). It is more stable, easier to use, less complicated, has better software available for it (less software, but better), more secure etc etc. This is chalk and cheese in my mind. Things like Time Machine show me that someone thought about how people use an OS, whereas something like network setup in Vista makes me think no one thought about this at all!

The hardware is simply divine. There isn't a laptop I have seen that is even close to the build quality of my MB. Now this is mainly a feel good thing, as most PS notebooks should see out there usable lifespan (2-3 years). I bought a Mac for the same reason I chose to buy a quality car.

The OS is written for the hardware. Imagine never having to screw around with drivers again. Imagine things just working, not having compatibility issues between your wireless card and your video card etc

There are many thoughtful touches with a Mac, but none more so (for my money) than the finger gestures. This has completely changed how I browse on a laptop. I actually plugged a mouse into my MB the other day and after 10 seconds went back to using the trackpad! It is so intuitive and so useful!

So, those are a few ideas on why I think there is no comparison. Others may have different opinions and/or disagree with me, but for me, that's why!

Piratbyran
24th November 2008, 08:31 PM
If it means anything on build quality, my iBook still looks as new after all this time of being used nearly every day.

ghettro
24th November 2008, 08:51 PM
I've also found more advanced things like drive cloning is a piece of piss. Carbon copy cloner makes a bootable drive easily and it's free. With windows it was difficult to find cloning software that would make a bootable clone when I wanted to move my windows install to a larger disk. Same goes with backup and restoring after a drive failure, plug in my time machine disk, boot from leopard DVD and bam - back in business after a few hours.

Vista's built in complete backup will only restore to an identical disk to the original... I found this out the hard way.

Balthazar
24th November 2008, 09:27 PM
If it means anything on build quality, my iBook still looks as new after all this time of being used nearly every day.

I agree,

My Macbook is one year old, used it everyday, including dragging it all over sydney for work and apart from slight discoloration on the wrist area (its a white plastic one) which will probably wipe off.. it looks and feels brand new.

Also with windows boxes i have used i would have to do a full re-install every 3 months to keep it feeling fresh and new. I have never had to do this with my Macbook (or any unix based system ive ever used).

Phunky
24th November 2008, 09:45 PM
Meh Apple still manufacture their stuff in China to save costs like everyone else
Its the consumer perception

Joe91
24th November 2008, 10:28 PM
Meh Apple still manufacture their stuff in China to save costs like everyone else

Well yeah, it's called business. :)


ts the consumer perception

Hmm. So the build quality of the MacBook I'm typing on now is just a figure of my imagination?

It's not perception at all. Go play with some Windows lappies then a MacBook, no comparison.

dawsman
24th November 2008, 10:53 PM
You're right, it is thrown around a lot, but from my experience, here's why:

There are many thoughtful touches with a Mac, but none more so (for my money) than the finger gestures. This has completely changed how I browse on a laptop. I actually plugged a mouse into my MB the other day and after 10 seconds went back to using the trackpad! It is so intuitive and so useful!


+1. The new trackpad is without a doubt the best feature of any computer I've ever owned. I rarely use my wireless mouse now. :thumbup:

Balthazar
25th November 2008, 05:59 AM
Meh Apple still manufacture their stuff in China to save costs like everyone else
Its the consumer perception

Your right, i perceive my notebook to be in pristine condition after a year of very heavy use... because it is.

Im the first to admit im an apple fanboy but that doesn't change the fact that i look at my work laptop (a lenovo thinkpad) which is also a year old and gets used less... it's already falling apart and runs like a dog.

stevejay
25th November 2008, 06:25 AM
What I want to know is, for the parts that come with the MBP, why is it so bloody expensive?

Because, out of the box, it's high quality construction, can edit video, record music, make CDs and DVDs, and everything simply works. For only a tad over $100 more and you get an office suite that craps on any other. (iWork) The spreadsheet therein will blow your mind and the integration and compatibility with other apps in the suite and other suites is to die for.

Oh, and for me, the single best reason to own any Mac...

...none of those effing advertising and compliance stickers!!!!!! Why design a nice computer then put Doze stickers and Intel Inside stickers and this company and that company, and half of them aren't removable! That's the single biggest thing wrong with the Windows world - cobranding! I effing HATE it!

Philljc
25th November 2008, 08:45 AM
One more question.

If I get a MBP, will any laptop HDD fit in it as an extra latero n down the track? Or are apple parts Apple specific?

Balthazar
25th November 2008, 09:23 AM
One more question.

If I get a MBP, will any laptop HDD fit in it as an extra latero n down the track? Or are apple parts Apple specific?

Any 2.5" (or is it 1.5" ?) HDD should fit but check the rev speed etc... first and match it. should have no problems

cejay
25th November 2008, 02:05 PM
One more question.

If I get a MBP, will any laptop HDD fit in it as an extra latero n down the track? Or are apple parts Apple specific?

I did this last night to my new MB, went from the pov pack 160 to a 320 @ 7200rpm. Absolutely the most simple upgrade.

SXTACY
25th November 2008, 03:59 PM
Hi,

I've been a PC user all my life, and being an early adopter, I'm quite familiar with the software and hardware sides of a PC.

Last night I took delivery of my first ever Mac (MBP 15", 2.53Ghz, 4GB, 320GB 500) and offer this to assist you in your decision:

1. Quality. It hasn't been compromised. If you are motivated by having the finer things in life (not for having the most expensive, or biggest bragging rights, but actual quality) then the Mac is hard to argue against. The placement of buttons and indicators, the minimalistic look and feel, are all things which you notice when you use one.

2. Integration. Both software and hardware work seamlessly. Because there is a single manufacturer for the hardware and OS, there is increased efficeincies.

3. Stability. Memory management is much better on a Mac, and so too is the management of addon software (to uninstall an app, drag it to trash, to install, just copy it into Applications) to ensure no "bloat"

4. Intuiitive. The finger gestures are leaps and bounds ahead of the game. Makes the machine a dream to use. The glass trackpad is something which seems so natural and logical, makes you wonder why more manufacturers aren't doing it

5. Lastly, but almost the tipping point for me... Windows capability. I have many applications that I still would like to use which only run in Windows, so having the ability to run Windows XP/Vista properly was probably the first hurdle that needed to be crossed before I'd consider making the jump to my first Mac. Probably not so much of an issue for someone who has had Macs before, but definately a huge hurdle for a first time user like myself.

6. Resale. What's the worst that could happen? You don't like it? Fine, sell it! The resale is so good on these things that you'd almost take the chance and sell the item for a couple hundred less if you really do hate it, which in my opinion, is unlikely.

If you're after familiarity, in your situation nothing is going to be as close to that requirement as a Windows PC, because you're used to it. But if you have an open mind, and see how things are done (and logically why) with a Mac, you'll soon be converted :)

Best of luck,

-R

jubilantjeremy
25th November 2008, 04:11 PM
There is a reason why you haven't met anyone who's swithed to PC from mac. I think that says enough, doesn't it?

Philljc
26th November 2008, 12:40 PM
There is a reason why you haven't met anyone who's swithed to PC from mac. I think that says enough, doesn't it?

I'm not being converted. I just want a small, lightweight performance laptop. I'll always keep my desktop PC, but that's because I need it for games. I'd say if macs ever catch up to PC's for gaming then it won't be any time soon. They release some best sellers every now and then but unfortunately that's it.

dolbinau
26th November 2008, 12:51 PM
Apple do have higher prices because they are a premium brand, they present themselves that way and people are willing to spend the extra money. They had charts on the last keynote IIRC which showed despite relatively little market share they have much, much higher profit margins than the competition (again, IIRC), doesn't that just prove they charge more?

While some of it may because it is a superior product, you are paying for the Apple brand.

jubilantjeremy
26th November 2008, 01:11 PM
Apple do have higher prices because they are a premium brand, they present themselves that way and people are willing to spend the extra money. They had charts on the last keynote IIRC which showed despite relatively little market share they have much, much higher profit margins than the competition (again, IIRC), doesn't that just prove they charge more?

While some of it may because it is a superior product, you are paying for the Apple brand.

Yes, but that's what makes it the Apple brand - the R+D, the early adoption of new tech, etc.
If you paid less, apple would spend less on these things and Apple would just be another crappy Acer brand.

ashIV
26th November 2008, 10:58 PM
I did this last night to my new MB, went from the pov pack 160 to a 320 @ 7200rpm. Absolutely the most simple upgrade.

do you void your applecare doing this?

kyncaid
27th November 2008, 02:48 AM
Come on in the waters fine.

zigzagler
27th November 2008, 09:32 AM
any recommendation on where I can get an insurance cover for MBP?

cejay
27th November 2008, 10:13 AM
do you void your applecare doing this?

I don't believe so. The unit isn't opened beyond the battery cover. The replacement disk drive is a seperate warranty item and is my risk. The old disk is nicely secured in the new disks package.

Apple make no representation in their manual that you void the units general warranty.

Philljc
27th November 2008, 10:18 AM
One more question before I order tomorrow (black Friday).

Is it really worth getting the 2.8GHZ over the 2.53GHZ?

I wont use it for gaming, just Adobe CS4 and general work stuff. Is there that much of a difference that warrants $480?

zigzagler
27th November 2008, 10:25 AM
One more question before I order tomorrow (black Friday).

Is it really worth getting the 2.8GHZ over the 2.53GHZ?

I wont use it for gaming, just Adobe CS4 and general work stuff. Is there that much of a difference that warrants $480?

correct me if I'm wrong but is the "free delivery" the only promotion offered by Apple for Black Friday sale???

Philljc
27th November 2008, 10:59 AM
correct me if I'm wrong but is the "free delivery" the only promotion offered by Apple for Black Friday sale???

I doubt it, as my boss ordered one and got free delivery, and the free delivery is stated on the site still.

edit: "Come back to the Apple Online Store this Friday for a special one-day-only Christmas shopping event. You’ll find dozens of great iPod, iPhone and Mac gift ideas – all with free delivery."

Philljc
27th November 2008, 12:11 PM
Also, looking at the one my boss got, where the hell is the air vent?

Johnny Appleseed
27th November 2008, 12:23 PM
Philljc, it's normal for a PC user to get hung up on spec and price comparisons - they're the only differentials in the PC world. Once you've used a Mac you begin to see the value of other factors, such as hardware/software design and user experience.

Plus the MacBooks have several unique features, such as unibody construction, Multi-Touch trackpad, light-sensing backlit keyboard, MagSafe power cord and sudden motion sensor.

Gothikon
27th November 2008, 12:37 PM
I don't think I'd bother paying for the top end 15" (2.53 vs. 2.4) MacBook pro unless you really want that extra video RAM. The difference in speed isn't going to be huge. The RAM and HD are both cheap and easy to upgrade yourself.

I did actually get the top end model, but only because the lower end 15" would have been a down grade from my old MacBook Pro and I'll probably keep this one for a bit longer than most. I also haven't had a desktop PC for gaming for a few years now.

Philljc
28th November 2008, 03:27 PM
Ordered it:

320GB Serial ATA @ 7200
Accessory Kits
Keyboard & User's Guide
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
VMware Fusion 2
And Insurance

$4700 hope I don't regret it :o

Phunky
29th November 2008, 02:30 PM
Did you get Applecare?

Roddy
29th November 2008, 03:05 PM
As an avid windows user my whole life, I have been very skeptical of macs. I used to bag every user that owned one, and thought that macs were a POS.

However, I picked up one of the new macbooks last week as i needed a laptop and decided to have an open mind... WOW! This thing is fantastic. I order a display link cable to hook it up to my 22" samsung, and use the macbook all the time over my Q6600 Quad core vista machine. I think i'll just use the vista machine for video processing power from now on.

Oh, and btw I'm also picking up an iphone on Monday :-)

I can't see myself buying another PC, and am enjoying the way the macs work

Cheers

-Rod

Dutch H
1st December 2008, 10:56 PM
Unfortunately Flash runs better on Windows then OS X. It is not rendered natively under OS X and puts alot of strain on the processor.

gareth
1st December 2008, 11:07 PM
Ordered it:

320GB Serial ATA @ 7200
Accessory Kits
Keyboard & User's Guide
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
VMware Fusion 2
And Insurance

$4700 hope I don't regret it :o

:thumbup: you wont trust me

Philljc
2nd December 2008, 01:54 PM
Got it today. Enjoying it so far, I'll post back in a week :)

E10
2nd December 2008, 06:16 PM
It is more expensive because there is pure magic inside. Muggles don't understand it, but it's worth every dollar.