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uncyherb
27th October 2008, 10:56 AM
News around the interwebs todays tells that the first build (10A190) of Snow Leopard/10.6 has been released to ADC members.

Noice... would put 10.6 very much on track for WWDC release!:thumbup:

Despite the fact that this OS will have the least amount of bells and whistles, this is the most excited about a 10 point release I have been for a long time!

mitty
27th October 2008, 10:57 AM
Dumb noob question, but is the likely to be a free upgrade for existing leopard users, or will we need to pay for an upgrade?

mechcon
27th October 2008, 10:58 AM
Nope, Apple being stingy, will make us pay for 10.6 :\

Lutze
27th October 2008, 10:59 AM
From playing around with the developer preview version I'm in the same boat - I'm impressed with performance and stability - Almost exactly what you want to see in an update.

chrome
27th October 2008, 11:05 AM
I would be surprised if it's free, but not surprised if it's at a reduced cost compared to 10.5, to reflect the reduced number of consumer facing features. It'd be a hard sell, otherwise.

But, that said, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the full price. Apple are unpredictable.

bennyling
27th October 2008, 11:06 AM
Stupid question, but when's WWDC again?

uncyherb
27th October 2008, 11:21 AM
Stupid question, but when's WWDC again?

June is the usual timing, although the 2009 event has not been announced yet.

mechcon
27th October 2008, 11:22 AM
From playing around with the developer preview version I'm in the same boat - I'm impressed with performance and stability - Almost exactly what you want to see in an update.

So it's much more responsive than 10.5?

Quamen
27th October 2008, 12:38 PM
Nope, Apple being stingy, will make us pay for 10.6 :\

Since when did charging for over a years worth of development costs make Apple stingy?

lavo
27th October 2008, 12:46 PM
Since when did charging for over a years worth of development costs make Apple stingy?

And its still cheaper than buying a full version of Windows :)

It will be interesting to see what under the hood stuff will be in 10.6, but I'm still yet to see any software developed for 10.5 that has some real "wow" factor about it. I'm guessing its like most platforms, that we never see the best of it because its continually being updated (unlike say the C64, which programmers wringed its neck for any perfomance gains, as there were no updates).

Alucard
27th October 2008, 12:52 PM
Which macs will be able to even take advantage of 10.6 and see a noticeable difference?

Lutze
27th October 2008, 01:09 PM
So it's much more responsive than 10.5?

I think his Steveness will be able to use the term "snappy" quite librally.


Which macs will be able to even take advantage of 10.6 and see a noticeable difference?

Most modern Macs will be able to see advantages - Any Core 2 Duo and above chips.

uncyherb
27th October 2008, 01:11 PM
Which macs will be able to even take advantage of 10.6 and see a noticeable difference?

That's difficult to tell at this point... but at a guess, any intel mac with dual cores should see noticeable improvement, any intel mac with multiple cpus should see a very big improvement and possibly any recent mac with a multi-core GPU should see decent improvements.

But we'll have to wait for Apple to give us the guide.

The CPU usage when decoding HD H.264 on the new macbooks is an indication of where things might be heading with snow leopard. (100% cpu usage on previous MBP's, <20% cpu usage on new MBP's with 1080 HD H.264).

Lachie
27th October 2008, 01:28 PM
The CPU usage when decoding HD H.264 on the new macbooks is an indication of where things might be heading with snow leopard. (100% cpu usage on previous MBP's, <20% cpu usage on new MBP's with 1080 HD H.264).

Really?

Thats pretty lean, im surprised. Hope i see a change with my Al imac.

Lutze
27th October 2008, 01:37 PM
That's difficult to tell at this point... but at a guess, any intel mac with dual cores should see noticeable improvement, any intel mac with multiple cpus should see a very big improvement and possibly any recent mac with a multi-core GPU should see decent improvements.

But we'll have to wait for Apple to give us the guide.

The CPU usage when decoding HD H.264 on the new macbooks is an indication of where things might be heading with snow leopard. (100% cpu usage on previous MBP's, <20% cpu usage on new MBP's with 1080 HD H.264).

However it's been very highly argued that changes to Quicktime (they have a different build on the new Macbooks and MBP's) is really anything to do with Quicktime X (coming in Snow Leopard). From my understanding it's more to do with optimisation.

Snow Leopard is ALL about optimisation moving forward, and making the computer work better, smarter and faster.

chip
27th October 2008, 03:20 PM
So can anyone confirm if it'll boot off ZFS?

Tragedies
27th October 2008, 03:35 PM
When do you guys think it'll be officialy released to stores?

esm
27th October 2008, 03:41 PM
hhhmm.. if it is for wwdc09, then it will be June or a later time.

makes me wonder if I would go for 10.5 now (still on Tiger) or just wait... but it is a loooong wait to June. If optimization is a key feature.. then it is worth it for those with multi-core. :)

inrainbows
27th October 2008, 04:07 PM
Will better battery life be feature?

Lutze
27th October 2008, 04:11 PM
We might as well ask if it will make our e-peen look any bigger! Guys it's a beta OS currently.

mac_man_luke
27th October 2008, 04:11 PM
well better battery life will be a by-product of lower cpu usage

mechcon
27th October 2008, 04:23 PM
Since when did charging for over a years worth of development costs make Apple stingy?

And since when did a company NEED to charge for a partial upgrade if they already have a shitload of money rolling in. Why not charge the usage of iTunes & Quicktime? Point is, that Apple can surely afford to if they want to, have a discounted fee for 10.6).

Maybe they will? Maybe they wont? We'll see what happens at Macworld or WWDC aye? :P

Lutze
27th October 2008, 04:27 PM
And since when did a company NEED to charge for a partial upgrade if they already have a shitload of money rolling in. Why not charge the usage of iTunes & Quicktime? Point is, that Apple can surely afford to if they want to, have a discounted fee for 10.6).

Maybe they will? Maybe they wont? We'll see what happens at Macworld or WWDC aye? :P

They NEED to charge for it if it's a significant update. The amount of work that is going into it justifies the cost.

As a code re-write it is slimmer, faster and 64bit. To not charge would be insane, and if they charge significantly less for it then it devalues the extra work that has gone into it.

feeze
27th October 2008, 05:07 PM
And since when did a company NEED to charge for a partial upgrade if they already have a shitload of money rolling in. Why not charge the usage of iTunes & Quicktime? Point is, that Apple can surely afford to if they want to, have a discounted fee for 10.6).

The same argument can be applied for all the previous point upgrades as well.

The whole, "it has no new features" is nothing but marketing bullshit. It is just a way to justify the fact that Snow Leopard is not going to have new some whizz-bang, look at me eye candy feature.

But the changes being made "under the hood" are significant. Grand Central and OpenCL are significant new technologies, these alone warrant an upgrade.

Mac OS X 10.6 is just as much an new operating system as the previous versions. And they will most likely charge accordingly.

Also we must remember that Apple's main incentive for releasing new operating systems is to encourage people to purchase new Macs. That is after all where they make their money, retail sales aren't that profitable. Giving away their new OS (or selling it at discount) reduces such an incentive.

marc
27th October 2008, 05:26 PM
When do you guys think it'll be officialy released to stores?
Jaguar: Friday, 23 August 2002
Panther: Friday, 24 October 2003 (14 months after Jaguar)
Tiger: Friday, 29 April 2005 (18 months after Panther)
Leopard: Friday, 26 October 2007 (30 months after Tiger)
Snow Leopard: ?

Leopard was very late and Snow Leopard doesn't seem like it'll be as large an effort as the Tiger to Leopard upgrade. However, I'm sure a lot of Apple's best developers have been stolen for the iPhone and the iPhone SDK.

My guess would Friday, April 24, 2009 at a cost of USD$129. Let's see how close that ends up being.

Anyone else want to guess?

Edit: Fixed laws of physics!

bartron
27th October 2008, 05:31 PM
edit: My guess is about this time next year...24ish months past the leopard release.

mechcon
27th October 2008, 06:01 PM
It'll be cocoa-based right? does that mean Carbon-based apps won't work on it? or will it make Logic/iTunes slow(er) than usual? :P

Or will they release cocoa-based versions of all the Pro apps as well as iTunes? (and whatever else that is carbon-based)..

Correct me if I'm wrong by all means as I'm no coder.

feeze
27th October 2008, 06:11 PM
It'll be cocoa-based right? does that mean Carbon-based apps won't work on it? or will it make Logic/iTunes slow(er) than usual? :P

Or will they release cocoa-based versions of all the Pro apps as well as iTunes? (and whatever else that is carbon-based)..

Correct me if I'm wrong by all means as I'm no coder.

Carbon apps will still be supported and will still run as normal.

That said, Carbon will not be 64 bit, and my guess is Apple will want to release 64 bit versions of their pro apps so they will have to port them to Cocoa.

mechcon
27th October 2008, 06:13 PM
That's my major concern, as I use pro apps like crazy :\ I hope they have a trick up their sleeve, the usually do aye :)

feeze
27th October 2008, 06:22 PM
That's my major concern, as I use pro apps like crazy :\ I hope they have a trick up their sleeve, the usually do aye :)

No need to be concerned, you pro app will continue to work exactly the same as they do now.

That said, I hope Apple do release new versions that are written in Cocoa, 64 bit and fully utilise Grand Central and OpenCL. That way they will insanely fast and support huge data sets.

It would be poor form if they didn't. Why create all this new technology and not utilise it? Especially considering that Apple is usually used as a measuring stick and if Apple doesn't support their own tech, why should 3rd party developers.

mechcon
27th October 2008, 06:32 PM
Yeah, try scrolling through the applications section on iTunes 8 :P

Quamen
27th October 2008, 06:51 PM
Jaguar: Friday, 23 August 2002
Panther: Friday, 24 October 2003 (14 months after Jaguar)
Tiger: Friday, 29 April 2005 (18 months after Panther)
Leopard: Friday, 26 October 2007 (30 months after Tiger)
Snow Leopard: ?

Leopard was very late and Snow Leopard doesn't seem like it'll be as large an effort as the Tiger to Leopard upgrade. However, I'm sure a lot of Apple's best developers have been stolen for the iPhone and the iPhone SDK.

My guess would Friday, April 24, 2009 at a cost of USD$129. Let's see how close that ends up being.

Anyone else want to guess?

Edit: Fixed laws of physics!

I am going to put my money on January 5th 2009. Macworld release.

cosmichobo
27th October 2008, 07:25 PM
So will this be the end of PowerPC support?

Lutze
27th October 2008, 07:32 PM
So will this be the end of PowerPC support?

Unfortunately my balls are hairy - not crystal.

So far the information we have is that the developer version is Intel only. Brains says that his sources are saying that's not going to remain the fact. So your guess is at least as valid as the next guess in the iPhone forum about 3 selling the iPhone.

uncyherb
27th October 2008, 07:52 PM
Guess: July 10 2009.

Mutters
27th October 2008, 07:54 PM
Unfortunately my balls are hairy - not crystal.


HA!

FORTUNATELY my balls are hairy.:D

Also, why would we not pay for this update. It's 10.6 not 10.5.6

We've paid for every other first point update.

mutters

rjch
27th October 2008, 08:22 PM
On:


The whole, "it has no new features" is nothing but marketing bullshit. It is just a way to justify the fact that Snow Leopard is not going to have new some whizz-bang, look at me eye candy feature.

Is the marketing something like "Your Holden/Ford will look exactly the same, but go a lot faster". Is that going to to convince or entice the average user? (Seems fast enough for me, do I need to spend $129 to get some more nanoseconds?).

Maybe there will be several or more eye-candies to generate media+marketing traction. There is no theoretical reason not to, and perhaps big benefits if Apple does. This site is not short of suggestions.

Or is this "marketing bullshit" of only under-the-hood benefits the camouflage for a late announcement of spectacular benefits? Either by "leaks" or "peaks" or at the unveiling itself.