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kurisu
13th October 2008, 08:47 PM
Hi there,

Started new work recently, and heard from people that the IT guy, for some reason, is 100% anti-Mac. All I want is to plug in the powerbook and able to 1) have access to internet with all installed applications (not just safari), 2) able to access the drive on local network, 3) optional, but able to access to printer.

I saw the IT guy setting up the work computer of mine and he was doing all the "mapping network drive", think that's easy to do the equivalent. He did say he need my MAC address, and he doesn't know I'm using Mac...yet.

Can anyone share their stories on convincing the IT guys to support Mac?

cmrn
13th October 2008, 08:59 PM
I would suggest telling your boss that any IT guy/dept. worth his/their salt would suppport every OS (within reason).

However as it is a new workplace that might not be the best idea :p

Wally
13th October 2008, 09:01 PM
just give him the MAC address, he cant possibly tell its an OSX machine by a MAC address.

If its for work reasons then there isn't any reason for him not to give you access regardless of the platform.... If he refuses to, tell your boss.

I still don't get why IT people are so anti mac, however when they actually try one they love em.

Wally

Piratbyran
13th October 2008, 09:09 PM
just give him the MAC address, he cant possibly tell its an OSX machine by a MAC address.

If its for work reasons then there isn't any reason for him not to give you access regardless of the platform.... If he refuses to, tell your boss.

I still don't get why IT people are so anti mac, however when they actually try one they love em.

Wally

Its normally the people that have never even used one.

MissionMan
13th October 2008, 09:12 PM
Simple solution. Setup up a fresh install of Windows in a VM, go full screen and he won't know the difference, he'll think its Windows running on a mac piece of hardware and will be happy.

I work at a large number of really big corporates (top 200 companies - most with more than 1000 SAP users). Each customer I spend time at I setup a separate VM for them so the network settings are unique for that customer and so I don't have to change the network settings each time I visit a different customer. When I walk onsite I don't bother telling the network guy its running OSX, I just say I run Mac hardware because I like the reliability of the hardware and give them a fresh VM to install whatever anti-virus software they want and change the exchange settings to their personal preference.

If they ever ask me whether i run OSX I say yes, and then show them I run the VM's separate for each customer. Its easy to justify simply from the perspective of not wanting information for multiple companies in competition to each other on the same machine without some method of separating the actual configuration and security information. I normally say to them "Would you be happy if I went to XYZ, had your exchange and network settings on my machine and gave them domain admin over my machine?"

bartron
13th October 2008, 09:24 PM
just give him the MAC address, he cant possibly tell its an OSX machine by a MAC address.

The first three groups of hex in a MAC address is registered the rest is more or less sequential.

What that means is that is is possible to know the manufacturer of a network card (or computer) by it's MAC address. (I know this for a fact because I use it to identify computers on the network at work)

IEEE Registration Authority - IEEE OUI and Company_id Assignments (http://standards.ieee.org/regauth/oui/index.shtml)

Anyway....sounds like this IT guy wouldn't know about that so just provide him with the MAC address of your computer and you should be off and running.

As for convincing him about OS X, don't. He's made his mind up about that already so what you need to do is go over his head. Get your boss or someone to vouch for you...state a business case as to why you need a Mac and that you take whatever support issues come with that. If he gets told to let you on the network he has no comeback.

mechcon
13th October 2008, 09:39 PM
I rather respect an I.T. person that has at least used a mac for a good period, and then say "nar it's not my thing". As opposed to being a typical PC user.. Fuck me dead it angers me, and I can say that, since I WAS one of them pricks..

I mean nowadays, you will find that Mac techies at least know Windows enough to support it, same goes for switchers (obviously). You'll very very rarely find PC-orientated technicians knowing OSX or experienced it. I agree that Windows isn't for everyone, and nor is OSX.. To each their own.. but to read up about pricks that are anti-mac because they're anti-mac. it's unprofessional! *senseless rant over*

Nevertheless... good luck with that douche, and have fun at your new workplace. Here's hoping they'll progress more technologically..

Devil
13th October 2008, 10:11 PM
I would suggest telling your boss that any IT guy/dept. worth his/their salt would suppport every OS (within reason).

Exactly.

If you were paying 30% (or some other number) more for your IT than needed to, how would you know?

Do you really want an employee directing your future purchasing etc. when they don't investigate all the options?

gizo
13th October 2008, 10:11 PM
I once had upper management who refused to read things written in black - everything had to be handwritten in blue. I tried to convince them that there was no significant difference to them, that I was happy to buy my own black pens and replace my own ink cartridges, and heck - they might even find the black ink easier on their eyes!
All my friends down at the black-ink shops agreed with me, and had hundreds of great anecdotes and research papers about the benefits of black ink

But no matter how hard I tried to convince my work - they wouldn't budge on their outdated, ridiculous blue-ink notions.

One day, I cracked it. I stormed into my boss's office and said "This is ridiculous! Any business worth their salt will read things in both blue AND black ink, even red! I mean really - you haven't even tried!" I then presented him with the most powerful and self-evident selection of anecdotes and papers about black ink.

My boss took it all in, nodded, smiled, and said "Suck it up, Princess - I like blue." Then he signed my pay-cheque. In blue.

Graham
13th October 2008, 11:24 PM
I still don't get why IT people are so anti mac

The more arcane knowledge needed and the more effort required to keep systems running then the more job security you have.


I once had upper management who refused to read things written in black - everything had to be handwritten in blue.

You should have followed his request to use a blue pen - and used blue paper as well.

Lachie
13th October 2008, 11:50 PM
I once had upper management who refused to read things written in black - everything had to be handwritten in blue. I tried to convince them that there was no significant difference to them, that I was happy to buy my own black pens and replace my own ink cartridges, and heck - they might even find the black ink easier on their eyes!
All my friends down at the black-ink shops agreed with me, and had hundreds of great anecdotes and research papers about the benefits of black ink

But no matter how hard I tried to convince my work - they wouldn't budge on their outdated, ridiculous blue-ink notions.

One day, I cracked it. I stormed into my boss's office and said "This is ridiculous! Any business worth their salt will read things in both blue AND black ink, even red! I mean really - you haven't even tried!" I then presented him with the most powerful and self-evident selection of anecdotes and papers about black ink.

My boss took it all in, nodded, smiled, and said "Suck it up, Princess - I like blue." Then he signed my pay-cheque. In blue.

power trip? AHHH YA!

jubilantjeremy
13th October 2008, 11:57 PM
I once had upper management who refused to read things written in black - everything had to be handwritten in blue. I tried to convince them that there was no significant difference to them, that I was happy to buy my own black pens and replace my own ink cartridges, and heck - they might even find the black ink easier on their eyes!
All my friends down at the black-ink shops agreed with me, and had hundreds of great anecdotes and research papers about the benefits of black ink

But no matter how hard I tried to convince my work - they wouldn't budge on their outdated, ridiculous blue-ink notions.

One day, I cracked it. I stormed into my boss's office and said "This is ridiculous! Any business worth their salt will read things in both blue AND black ink, even red! I mean really - you haven't even tried!" I then presented him with the most powerful and self-evident selection of anecdotes and papers about black ink.

My boss took it all in, nodded, smiled, and said "Suck it up, Princess - I like blue." Then he signed my pay-cheque. In blue.

I thought this was clever, even if no-one else did :)

purana
14th October 2008, 06:47 AM
just give him the MAC address, he cant possibly tell its an OSX machine by a MAC address.

Actually YOU can. Some of the numbers in the MAC address are reserved for vendor codes. So you can tell from the MAC address which vendor produced the equipment. Check out one of the lookup tools.

As found here (http://coffer.com/mac_find/).

kurisu
8th February 2009, 11:40 AM
sorry, just dig-up an old thread.

i have not own an intel mac, so it might sound foolish.

if i create a partition with XP, boot from bootcamp, let the IT guy to do his stuff to arrange internet/printer/network drive access. once he's gone, can i access to internet/printer/network drive with the mac partition?

Nexus
8th February 2009, 11:48 AM
No, its a totally different system and set of settings. You can however copy down the settings are retype them into MacOS.

vortex_
8th February 2009, 12:07 PM
Actually YOU can. Some of the numbers in the MAC address are reserved for vendor codes. So you can tell from the MAC address which vendor produced the equipment. Check out one of the lookup tools.

As found here (http://coffer.com/mac_find/).

Until you change the MAC to DE:AD:BE:EF:CA:FE (I never can remember how long a MAC is...) :p

Moylance
8th February 2009, 01:08 PM
At my workplace we deal with all variations, we supply labs and work issue computers consisting of G4s and up..

But we've had people come in with UBuntu, XP, 2000, Vista.. Provide them with what they're after you've got a happy customer.

How hard can it be??

The Ubuntu laptop was cool, was a brand new eePC.. :P

Nexus
8th February 2009, 01:31 PM
until you change the mac to de:ad:be:ef:ca:fe (i never can remember how long a mac is...) :p

CA:FE:BA:BE:00

ED: What is with MacTalk stripping my caps from this post?

scritch
8th February 2009, 01:38 PM
Depending on the company they may have an SOE (Standard Operating Environment) that requires Windows running on authorised equipment. If this is the case, your best outcome is that they let you use your Mac, but you're on your own if you have issues.

Try an get as many settings from him as you can, ie the SMB/CIFS share names, the mail server settings, calendar settings etc. If they are an MS shop then they are probably running Exchange, or if a smaller organisation they may still be running Novell. No matter what there is software to get up and going - you just need the settings to let it work.

The main thing the company (and your boss) will be looking for is that you can take part on an even playing field with other staff - they should not have to worry whether your email can or can't see Microsoft's crappy MIME encoded emails, or that your calendar accepts and shares free/busy info properly. They expect it to just work.

If they don't have an SOE, then you'll get support for (a) whatever the IT guy is paid to support, and/or (b) whatever the IT guy wants to support.

If you have a single OS bigot in the IT department (whether it be for Mac, Windows, Linux or any other OS) - unless there is a management decision to force them to support other hardware they won't do it.

In this day & age though, most companies should be looking at ways to open their networks securely for guests & contractors, but this requires a certain amount of progressive thinking and some good work by vendors and resellers to ensure the right solution is in place. Once their network is open to guests, a certain amount of awareness of other OS's is needed.

Good luck!

Regards,
Shane.

chrome
9th February 2009, 12:16 PM
Basically what scritch has said is correct. Go guerilla.

I work at a large (over 40k employee) company which uses Windows XP as the SOE. I have my MBP plugged into an external display (which I had to buy myself) and do everything I need to do with it, except for HR stuff like timesheets, holidays etc, as they require IE to work correctly (SAP is shit). There is a PC on my desk with a third display for that stuff, which I rarely use.

The key to getting this to work, is that if anyone asks, you support yourself. If you company is small enough that it only has one IT guy, just tell him that you're happy to support yourself, and that you just need from him a list of things you need to make things work.

If it's an Exchange shop, ask him nicely to enable IMAP support, and GAL access via LDAP, etc. Ask for proxy server config, if they don't provide NAT straight to the 'net. Stuff like that.

Once you're set up, you'll be less of a burden than the Windows users. He'll know that if you have problems you'll only come to him if it's a server side issue, and that he doesn't need to worry that you'll spread Windows viruses (do get antivirus installed however, to ensure you don't spread macro viruses, and to comply with any policy in place).

At my company there is a large number (maybe 5% user base) of people running Mac OS X. We all run it secretly and just 'make do'. Causing a fuss would get us nowhere, and might in fact spark a corporate crack-down on Macs, forcing us to use PCs. Which would not be cool.

Phormic
9th February 2009, 12:50 PM
Started new work recently, and heard from people that the IT guy, for some reason, is 100% anti-Mac.

Gee. How unusual.

I faced the same problem. I convinced senior management that I could do my job more effectively on a Mac (admittedly not hard as I'm a graphic/web designer). With them on board they overruled the IT department who of course, hated the idea.

My advice is to make allies in high places.

tcn33
9th February 2009, 12:56 PM
+1 to scritch and chrome's comments. A couple of IT guys know I use a Mac because they've seen it, but official company policy says that non-SOE machines cannot be connected to the network. So I don't ask for help and I make sure that I can do anything with my Mac that PC users can do.

Getting to use my Mac at work is more than worth solving the occasional problem on my own.

MissionMan
9th February 2009, 01:07 PM
The guys make some valid points. Whatever you do, don't call tech support unless you are 100% sure the problem is not because of your mac or anything you've done or you'll give them ammunition to oust your mac.

arkenstone
9th February 2009, 01:14 PM
just give him the MAC address, he cant possibly tell its an OSX machine by a MAC address.

Actually the first sting is the manufacturer/vendor, so it's possible.

I doubt it'd display as 'Apple' but it'd narrow it down a whole lot.


The fact remains he won't do it this way though.



Look, as someone who has worked in this field there's something very reassuring about a SOE (Standard Operating Environment).

Single hardware with a single setup with a single invoice and a single support/warranty contract makes things a lot less complicated and in turn, cheaper.


Xenex and I have argued this point many times.


There are also arugments for foreign hardware on networks. I've worked in Govt departments where USB ports were locked down and you had your phone confiscated on entry. I've worked in other environments where you could grab any old patch lead and plug anything in.

There are far more reasons not to allow Jo Blogs to plug his personal laptop into the network than their are to allow him to.

If I were paid to maintain a network and ensure performance for business users and business assets on that network you can bet your arse I wouldn't let Jo Blogs or mr "but I know IT" plug any old thing into the network.

Even if someone somehow confinced me to do it just to be a nice guy, You'd get nothing but http traffic. There's just zero incentive to put a corporate network at risk to be nice to the new guy. I don't think this stance is necessarily 'anti-mac', just 'anti-shit-we-don't-trust'. Most places I've worked at wouldn't let you put a linux or Dell laptop on as much as they wouldn't let you put a Mac on.

I suggest if it's that much of a big deal that you negotiate that point during your next job application.

Angsty
9th February 2009, 01:17 PM
At my previous job, you needed special permission to connect anything except SOE hardware and software to the network. It was almost a sackable offense to DIY hardware or connect anything not approved to their secured network.

I went through the third degree because I installed Firefox and used that instead of the corporate standard of IE6. I had to agree in writing that I would not call IT helpdesk to support my use of Firefox :eek:

And yes, most of all their virus outbreaks were brought into the corporate LAN via people's USB thumb drives that they also used at home.

If you are managing an IT department with tens of thousands of users across hundreds of sites, you can understand their need to keep things simple and the same.

kyncaid
9th February 2009, 01:24 PM
So Whats the go with Active Directory and Macs, wouldn't that be the biggest issue with IT and remote tools like MSTSC and remote through SMS and all of there Big Bother.... i mean software monitoring tools.

chrome
9th February 2009, 07:58 PM
So Whats the go with Active Directory and Macs, wouldn't that be the biggest issue with IT and remote tools like MSTSC and remote through SMS and all of there Big Bother.... i mean software monitoring tools.

In shops that actually support macs (ie, they buy them and integrate them), AD isn't a problem. They use the Apple tools for doing remote admin.

Obviously anything Windows specific like SMS isn't going to fly, though. But then, why would you care; it's not like you're going to install Windows apps on your Mac anyway.