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juzz
27th July 2008, 01:46 AM
I just discovered today that Super Monkey Ball has been hacked and you can download it for free and use it on your iPhone. You install it via SSH.

I was wondering if anyone else knew about this?

I would post links on this but I'm not sure what the rules here on piracy are so I will leave it for now.

I can confirm it works though.

Update: Many, many, many more games have now been cracked and are being shared.

Crash, Enigmo, Dreigit, Dizzy Bee and Pinball just to name a few.

Seems like only a matter of time before the whole app store will be cracked :|.

Not sure if this is a good thing or not (probably not), maybe (and this is being really really optimistic) developers will lower the prices of their apps to try and deter people from hacking their iPhone to get free apps? Obviously won't work on everyone, but if Pool was $5 or under I'd already have it. I'm probably still going to buy it anyway but you get my point.

MrJesseRoss
27th July 2008, 10:54 AM
Though it should be obvious, the following, over time, have been declared specifically not permitted:
...
Warez discussion. Ie: How to get software or serial numbers illegitimately.


It's warez. So don't.

decryption
27th July 2008, 10:56 AM
Yes - keep the discussion on the ramifications itself. Anyone linking to methods of piracy (which this is), will be reprimanded (banned, posts deleted)

mvjs
27th July 2008, 10:56 AM
Stealing is bad. Don't do it.

dolbinau
27th July 2008, 10:58 AM
http://kensingtonvictoria.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/piracy.jpg

Although just paying the $10 USD seems a little more convenient.

mjankor
27th July 2008, 10:59 AM
I just discovered today that Super Monkey Ball has been hacked and you can download it for free and use it on your iPhone. You install it via SSH.

I was wondering if anyone else knew about this?

I would post links on this but I'm not sure what the rules here on piracy are so I will leave it for now.

I can confirm it works though.

at $13 is it worth hacking and stealing it? So far the App store programs have been very reasonably priced. I'd like to see them stay that way.

Erwin
27th July 2008, 11:08 AM
http://kensingtonvictoria.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/piracy.jpg

Although just paying the $10 USD seems a little more convenient.

Actually, piracy is still theft of copyright, which is a form of property right - that is, intellectual property, which can still be stolen.

Tragedies
27th July 2008, 12:08 PM
Yeah, there are ways to get Apps now, mainly through hacking or cracking or whatnot.

But in the end, you might as well pay the price for the App. You don't have to mess with the folders, and the developers deserve SOMETHING.

W9cae
27th July 2008, 12:17 PM
You really have to be desperate to steal a cheap app like Super Monkey ball. The person who broke the copy protection was just trying to prove a point. Now this might make changes to the apps, causing more problems for developers.

Really with the availability of the 3G iPhone and apps maybe the hackers should just stop and think. And stop all this action & talk and just limit the development to first gen.

adamerr
27th July 2008, 12:42 PM
You really have to be desperate to steal a cheap app like Super Monkey ball. The person who broke the copy protection was just trying to prove a point. Now this might make changes to the apps, causing more problems for developers.

Really with the availability of the 3G iPhone and apps maybe the hackers should just stop and think. And stop all this action & talk and just limit the development to first gen.

*guilty look* *shys away*

haha.
SMB, really its not worth stealing it, too hard to control
:p

but i didnt steal it, dont worry.

grorr76
27th July 2008, 12:48 PM
really why wuld you bother. the apps are cheap and why would you risk introducing hacked code into your expensive iphone. I recently tried the 2.0 jailbreak on my touch and it was an absolute disaster constant freezes crashing etc, couldn't wait to restore and get rid of it.

adamerr
27th July 2008, 12:53 PM
really why wuld you bother. the apps are cheap and why would you risk introducing hacked code into your expensive iphone. I recently tried the 2.0 jailbreak on my touch and it was an absolute disaster constant freezes crashing etc, couldn't wait to restore and get rid of it.

hmm.
agreed.

on the subject of jailbreaking, i jailbroke my iPhone 3G and am quite happy with it.
i suppose im just happy knowing i can always do a restore and ge tit back to official.

will not be attempting an unlock though, there is only so far i will go.

mitty
27th July 2008, 07:19 PM
^Welll, seeing as you can unlock (most likely for a cost), I'm sure almost everyone agrees it's just easier to do that.

Kensei
27th July 2008, 07:32 PM
As everyone has already said for a $13 app seems to be more effort than it's worth.

However, (not saying that I would) some people might be tempted for apps more at the higher end of the spectrum i.e. $500.

But as has been said. WAREZ is bad.. mmmkay?

Philly
27th July 2008, 07:54 PM
If you hack apps, your a real sadcase.

Theif - "Hey John, I got monkeyball."
Theif's Friend - "Did ya?"
Theif - "Yeh"
Theif's Friend - "How much did it cost?"
Theif - "Nothin', I downloaded a hack"
Theif's XFriend - "What a Povo".

Linux_insidev2
27th July 2008, 07:58 PM
I Just wanna know how the hack works, rather than using it or getting a hacked game
You might call me weird, but I'm just inquisitive!

W9cae
27th July 2008, 08:13 PM
Do a Google and the torrent will come up with the info, also I think its posted on Hackint0sh. It really is allot of effort to get the app installed correctly. But what was broken in the app is still kept a secret. As one downloads the hacked app.

mechcon
27th July 2008, 08:23 PM
It's apple's fault for not having a trial-an-app option on app store.. so much money I could have saved if I had the chance to try the app before I bought.. monkey ball being an example.. it's not the amount of money that bothers me, it's the principal behind it..

nard
27th July 2008, 08:42 PM
Piracy (being robbery at sea) is indeed theft as it involves stealing from people under threat of force. Copyright infringement involves encroaching another's exclusive lawful right.

Both of these are unlawful. Whether a pirate or an infringer of copyright; a lawbreaker nonetheless.

Phase
27th July 2008, 09:10 PM
It's apple's fault for not having a trial-an-app option on app store.. so much money I could have saved if I had the chance to try the app before I bought.. monkey ball being an example.. it's not the amount of money that bothers me, it's the principal behind it..

No, it's the developers fault in not offering a free trial.

There are several applications on the App store right now that have 'lite' versions available, Sega chose not to do this, not Apple.

OziMac
27th July 2008, 09:13 PM
http://kensingtonvictoria.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/piracy.jpg

Although just paying the $10 USD seems a little more convenient.

For what it's worth, I like the picture. :)

That's all I can say though. I refer to decryption's earlier comment.

juzz
27th July 2008, 11:08 PM
Wow, not a lot of pirates on mactalk.

The way I see it is, $13 here, $13 there adds up over time and I am glad I didn't spend $13 on Monkey Ball. I've already uninstalled it. $13 for a mobile game is ridiculous imo. Each to their own.

I may pony up the cash for Pool though, coz that game does look sweet.

Dakah3
27th July 2008, 11:26 PM
$13 for a game with 110 levels is bugger all when you consider there is a lot of people happy to pay $24 a week for bloody frog ringtones.

juzz
28th July 2008, 12:11 AM
$13 for a game with 110 levels is bugger all when you consider there is a lot of people happy to pay $24 a week for bloody frog ringtones.

So what it has 110 levels, the quality of the game itself is not worth $13 imo.

From memory Pool is cheaper and looks a much better game.

dathnoth
28th July 2008, 12:12 AM
paying for apps will lead to more apps being developed

juzz
28th July 2008, 12:15 AM
I have nothing against paying for apps that are worth the money.

I just believe that SMB was not worth $13, and I am glad I tried it for free and then deleted it.

cazlar
28th July 2008, 02:16 AM
$13 for a game with 110 levels is bugger all when you consider there is a lot of people happy to pay $24 a week for bloody frog ringtones.
Stupid ringtone people aside, having 110 levels is useless if they make the controls so sensitive that I can't get past the 7th level on the first world on easy. Now, I may just be uncoordinated, but a number of other people have said similar things. So until they adjust the controls (if they do), I may as well have paid for only those 7 levels, which IMO is not worth the money.

There's a "savegame" floating around that unlocks all the levels that you can SSH in. If I still can't get past L7 in a few days, I might try that.

kyte
28th July 2008, 06:18 AM
I've paid for Top3 (ex iSolitaire) and Trism. Both games are excellent quality and worth every bit of the tiny fee. I am absolutely not certain I would want to pay for Supermonkeyball though, as I haven't had a chance to see what its really like. The other two have first gen phone versions. I quite agree with the notion of lite or demo versions.

~Coxy
28th July 2008, 10:39 AM
Wow, not a lot of pirates on mactalk.



And yet look at all the people who use "channel BT".

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 10:56 AM
paying for apps will lead to more apps being developed


No! Hacking the thing will help make the device more open(like it should have always been), allowing smaller developers to release more free open source apps, that utilize all of the phone's features, not just what Apple wants you to have access to.

Piracy is simply a stepping stone in the software revolution that is coming. And restrictions like App Store (and iTunes DRM, in general) are just slowing this evolution.

nando
28th July 2008, 02:10 PM
well if it was possible to get SMB for free in "hacked" fashion..then this might represent a problem..as to...why would a developer develop software if any one can get it for free...
assuming they chose not to have their app for free

Aaron
28th July 2008, 02:15 PM
No! Hacking the thing will help make the device more open(like it should have always been), allowing smaller developers to release more free open source apps, that utilize all of the phone's features, not just what Apple wants you to have access to.

Piracy is simply a stepping stone in the software revolution that is coming. And restrictions like App Store (and iTunes DRM, in general) are just slowing this evolution.

You sir, are a bloody tool. Oh look, your running osx86 as well. Go figure.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 02:20 PM
You sir, are a bloody tool. Oh look, your running osx86 as well. Go figure.
What a well structured rebuttal.

boddiz
28th July 2008, 03:03 PM
You sir, are a bloody tool. Oh look, your running osx86 as well. Go figure.

Best.Call.Ever (Y)

cpc6128
28th July 2008, 03:14 PM
There should be a trial period with all apps, i.e. tryout for 7 days before asking to pay for it.. some of these apps on itunes are crap.

I must say HoldEm, Caissa chess and Galcon are worth it.

Tiprya
28th July 2008, 03:21 PM
What a well structured rebuttal.

ahahhaahh he got owned

If you don't have anything to add except abuse 'Aaron' then don't post

Aaron
28th July 2008, 03:42 PM
ahahhaahh he got owned

If you don't have anything to add except abuse 'Aaron' then don't post

Grow up. Piracy isn't "cool" and there isn't going to be a "software piracy revolution". Some people need to rethink their immature mindset on piracy.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 04:23 PM
Grow up. Piracy isn't "cool" and there isn't going to be a "software piracy revolution". Some people need to rethink their immature mindset on piracy.

Of course there will be. There simply has to be. Piracy is on the rise, and becoming more main stream every day. Copy protection in all media is always cracked within weeks (if not days). There are only two options:
* Software is no longer produced, which simply will not happen, it has become a essential commodity.
* Open Source/small development houses, explode in popularity catering for more niche markets. Offering their products for free to home consumers, and making revenue from Support and Business clients (who are much more easier to sue for lisancing breaches).

Or the third option, which you suggested. Everyone on day decides not to pirate anymore, which will never happen. Ever.

I'm not saying piracy is "cool", I am however saying the piracy is happening, and it will never be stopped, if anything it will grow. This is something software companies NEED to adapt to.

marc
28th July 2008, 04:33 PM
* Software is no longer produced, which simply will not happen, it has become a essential commodity.
* Open Source/small development houses, explode in popularity catering for more niche markets. Offering their products for free to home consumers, and making revenue from Support and Business clients (who are much more easier to sue for lisancing breaches).

Or the third option, which you suggested. Everyone on day decides not to pirate anymore, which will never happen. Ever.
Or... a forth option. Piracy will continue and software that is reasonably priced with a convenient delivery method (ie. the app store) will thrive.

Honestly, software piracy hasn't changed much at all over the last 10 years. Businesses will mostly have to buy their software, because the repercussions are too large if they're caught (and what kind of signal is that sending to your employees?). It's also usually relatively quite good value for businesses, where $1k etc for an essential app isn't a big cost. Individuals will make up their own mind. Some will pirate, some won't.

I'm not sure why you think there's a revolution on the way... why would there be? What's being rebelled against? Why would most people want to join this revolution?

If anything, iTunes has curbed piracy of music, videos and apps more than any other internet based delivery method in the history of the internet. That's a pretty bold claim, but one iTunes can back up.


I'm not saying piracy is "cool", I am however saying the piracy is happening, and it will never be stopped, if anything it will grow. This is something software companies NEED to adapt to.
Oh yeah... how will they adapt?

iSlayer
28th July 2008, 04:35 PM
* Software is no longer produced, which simply will not happen, it has become a essential commodity.

If software piracy becomes so mainstream that no one can sell software anymore then that will happen. Developers aren't simply going to try and find alternate ways to make money. They will just find other jobs.


* Open Source/small development houses, explode in popularity catering for more niche markets. Offering their products for free to home consumers, and making revenue from Support and Business clients (who are much more easier to sue for lisancing breaches).

Will never happen on mass. Its not a feasible economy.

marc
28th July 2008, 04:38 PM
Will never happen on mass. Its not a feasible economy.
Not only that, but the open source development strategy (ie. "everyone shares the work" and "everyone shares the decisions") has created some of the shittiest software the world has ever seen (yes, worse than Word and Powerpoint).

Adding options in response to some geek's fetish about a feature that less than 1% of people care about = crappy user interfaces. Crappy user interfaces = crappy software that no one wants to use.


small development houses, explode in popularity catering for more niche markets
This part will happen though, because the quality of the Frameworks provided in modern OSs like OS X allow for small teams to build really advanced and slick apps. Piracy has nothing to do with that though... and they're generally not going to give them away for free.

adamerr
28th July 2008, 06:17 PM
Grow up. Piracy isn't "cool" and there isn't going to be a "software piracy revolution". Some people need to rethink their immature mindset on piracy.

im of divided opinion.
basically, i think that they should provide you with a free trial for 3 days or something similar to that.

fialing this, maybe downloading the application, trying it out, then buying (legally) would be the best thing to do.

W9cae
28th July 2008, 06:25 PM
im of divided opinion.
basically, i think that they should provide you with a free trial for 3 days or something similar to that.

fialing this, maybe downloading the application, trying it out, then buying (legally) would be the best thing to do.

This would be a great idea, maybe us MackTalk users could get this thought about at Apple ?

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 06:51 PM
Honestly, software piracy hasn't changed much at all over the last 10 years.
Rubbish. Ten years ago p2p technology was complicated and slow Internet connections made it almost unfeasible. When I downloaded my first mp3 back in 1999, no one knew what I was on about. Now days everyone I know uses Limewire at the very least, and most are BitTorrent users. And no, none are "geeks". It is a known fact this p2p use is on the rise.


I'm not sure why you think there's a revolution on the way...
Linux (and Open Source in general) is finally becoming more main stream, thanks to devices such as eeePC. Once consumers relies there are alternatives out there, there will be a tipping point. And yes, I know Linux isn't quite ready for center stage yet, however, initiatives such as Ubuntu are advancing ahead leaps and bounds.


Not only that, but the open source development strategy (ie. "everyone shares the work" and "everyone shares the decisions") has created some of the shittiest software the world has ever seen (yes, worse than Word and Powerpoint).
Ok this is complete ignorance. Firstly, Mac OSX, at its core is leeched directly from BSD (Unix origin). Mac fanboys go on about how secure and stable OSX is, the main reason for this is that it is built on Unix technology, which gasp, is open source. And hey, this very site is hosted by Apache, a open source piece of software.
EDIT:
OSX also relies on the Open Source VNC for its remote desktop, all installs include Apache, and "Spaces" has been in GNOME for years.

basseyy
28th July 2008, 06:54 PM
Actually, piracy is still theft of copyright, which is a form of property right - that is, intellectual property, which can still be stolen.
CORRECT!!

tkilik11
28th July 2008, 06:58 PM
lol philly

Beau
28th July 2008, 06:58 PM
I downloaded a cracked copy of Crash Bandicoot, and have now legally bought it on iTunes, since I like it

Apple, why didnt you let us do this in the first place?

Aaron
28th July 2008, 07:01 PM
Ok this is complete ignorance. Firstly, Mac OSX, at its core is leeched directly from BSD (Unix origin). Mac fanboys go on about how secure and stable OSX is, the main reason for this is that it is built on Unix technology, which gasp, is open source. And hey, this very site is hosted by Apache, a open source piece of software.

OS X uses the Mach kernal and open source components, but it's all been heavily modified. It's not like OS X is just BSD with a nice lovely interface stacked on top. Although OS X contains open source components, this doesn't give you or anyone the right to steal the software, modify it and put it onto non-Apple branded hardware, which is of course a violation of the end user agreement.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 07:07 PM
OS X uses the Mach kernal and open source components, but it's all been heavily modified. It's not like OS X is just BSD with a nice lovely interface stacked on top. Although OS X contains open source components, this doesn't give you or anyone the right to steal the software, modify it and put it onto non-Apple branded hardware, which is of course a violation of the end user agreement.
Wow someone has a soar spot for osx86 now don' they. I was not using the fact that OSX has BSD origins to justify osx86, I was pointing out that shiting all over the Open Source scene is ridiculous considering OSX is built on it (regardless how heavily it is modified, which on a low level, is not that much).

If you want to get off topic with regards to osx86, I do own a copy of Lepoard, and osx86 no longer voids ELUA, and even if it does, ELUA have never been proven to be legally bounding.

iSlayer
28th July 2008, 07:13 PM
Linux (and Open Source in general) is finally becoming more main stream, thanks to devices such as eeePC. Once consumers relies there are alternatives out there, there will be a tipping point. And yes, I know Linux isn't quite ready for center stage yet, however, initiatives such as Ubuntu are advancing ahead leaps and bounds.

Linux really isn't much more mainstream then it was 5 or 10 years ago. It's still a niche market (just like the eeepc). I still haven't seen anything to suggest it will become a more mainstream OS anytime soon either.
Open source really isn't that much more common then in the past either.


Ok this is complete ignorance. Firstly, Mac OSX, at its core is leeched directly from BSD (Unix origin). Mac fanboys go on about how secure and stable OSX is, the main reason for this is that it is built on Unix technology, which gasp, is open source. And hey, this very site is hosted by Apache, a open source piece of software.

Its not ignorance. There is a huge difference between your average open source app and server products or operating systems (OS X especially). OS X is probably the best open source project around. And it took a very focused company to get it to what it is today. All the linux distro's have been trying to do what OS X has done but none of them have come close because they lack a common set of goals and they lack the leadership needed to accomplish it.


I was pointing out that shiting all over the Open Source scene is ridiculous considering OSX is built on it

Yeah and apple had to modify the hell out of it to get a decent product in the end.

Barcode
28th July 2008, 07:17 PM
No! Hacking the thing will help make the device more open(like it should have always been), allowing smaller developers to release more free open source apps, that utilize all of the phone's features, not just what Apple wants you to have access to.

Piracy is simply a stepping stone in the software revolution that is coming. And restrictions like App Store (and iTunes DRM, in general) are just slowing this evolution.

Haha, man, you are so deluded.

Companies make things for money. They cannot do free things unless there is some catch that makes them money, like iTunes and iTunes downloads, and iPods as well...

You are theorizing a "software revolution" where all software can be hacked, and sold free of charge. That means a company of thousands of developers could get the amount of money of one game, and no more. That is simply pathetic. $13au spread across the entire team that developed this game for 4 months. Wow... I will pay you 1 cent to work full time on developing a program for three months. You can get your money elsewhere.

WHERE???

To make big games that develop at a fast pace costs MONEY as the people who develop it have LIVES and need to earn a living for FOOD.

What you propose takes every cent out of the developer's pocket. These developers go elsewhere for a life. That means all development in all fields on the computer looses all their developers, and your precious OS X will never get any better, your precious free apps will never get developed, and overall, you will never get what you want on a computer.

Linux? Linux has been in development for years, and is ope source, yet still doesn't compare to OS X or even windows in usability. Feature-rich, concise software costs money.

Stop stealing money from the people who really deserve it. You have proven you are willing to with your hachintosh, so maybe this is a mentality deeper down you need to deal with. You are stealing. Its called piracy. Its called intellectual property. You are violating it.

EDIT: You want access to all of the software of the OS, but are you willing to pay the price with viruses? Me thinks not. This is why Apple have done what they have done. They will make things more open as time goes on, but they are protecting their device by taking it slowly. Get a fcuking life man, and stop being so selfish and impatient.

Aaron
28th July 2008, 07:17 PM
Wow someone has a soar spot for osx86 now don' they. I was not using the fact that OSX has BSD origins to justify osx86, I was pointing out that shiting all over the Open Source scene is ridiculous considering OSX is built on it (regardless how heavily it is modified, which on a low level, is not that much).

If you want to get off topic with regards to osx86, I do own a copy of Lepoard, and osx86 no longer voids ELUA, and even if it does, ELUA have never been proven to be legally bounding.

Skimming through this thread, I can't see anyone "shitting all over the open source scene". Open source is good stuff :thumbup:

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 07:19 PM
OS X is probably the best open source project around.
OSX is NOT open source. Darwin is. And it is merely a PR stunt to appear to be giving back to the community, from which it took so much.

kitsune
28th July 2008, 07:24 PM
Surely the number of 3G iPhone users capable of Jailbreaking their phone and copying an application over SSH would be small enough that the seller of a mass market game would hardly notice the difference. I predict that much like music on the iTunes store, App sales will continue to thrive on impulse buys, and have very little to fear from piracy.

Tiprya
28th July 2008, 07:24 PM
Open source is the way of the future as far as I'm concerned

Only program I use regularly that isn't is iTunes

If I can find a good way of getting iTunes to work (or if Amarok is a good enough substitute) Ubuntu may be where I'm headed next

marc
28th July 2008, 07:26 PM
Rubbish. Ten years ago p2p technology was complicated and slow Internet connections made it almost unfeasible. When I downloaded my first mp3 back in 1999, no one knew what I was on about. Now days everyone I know uses Limewire at the very least, and most are BitTorrent users. And no, none are "geeks". It is a known fact this p2p use is on the rise.
I disagree. Copying software on floppies gave the same result and was pretty damn easy. My point is that it's always been available and always been pretty easy. There's nothing to suggest any kind of revolution.


Linux (and Open Source in general) is finally becoming more main stream, thanks to devices such as eeePC. Once consumers relies there are alternatives out there, there will be a tipping point. And yes, I know Linux isn't quite ready for center stage yet, however, initiatives such as Ubuntu are advancing ahead leaps and bounds.
As long as there's infighting, a million distros and none of the important big apps, then Linux will struggle. Linux will continue to thrive in the server market, where it is a brilliant solution. There's not one application available for Linux that makes me want to run it on a desktop.


Ok this is complete ignorance. Firstly, Mac OS X, at its core is leeched directly from BSD (Unix origin).
If by "leeched" you mean used and contributed to by Apple, then you're right.


Mac fanboys go on about how secure and stable OS X is, the main reason for this is that it is built on Unix technology, which gasp, is open source. And hey, this very site is hosted by Apache, a open source piece of software.
EDIT:
OSX also relies on the Open Source VNC for its remote desktop, all installs include Apache, and "Spaces" has been in GNOME for years.
Notice how all the successful open source techs have something in common? They're all underlying frameworks, protocols, kernels and terminal driven. No user interface. I stand by my earlier comments... open source generally doesn't do user interface well.

So... explain to me again how/why/when this piracy revolution is happening. You and your "FREE OPEN SOURCE APPS FOR ALL!!11!1!!!" buddies are likely to find yourself in the same place again in 10 years time when no revolution has happened...


Open source is the way of the future as far as I'm concerned
Why?

Here's the paid-for apps I use on a daily basis:
Logic Pro
Coda
Photoshop
Illustrator
InDesign
CSSEdit
Pages

I haven't seen any open source project take on an app that big and make it worthwhile. As a user, why would I care about something being open source (or not)? I don't have some strange political extremist view that needs to be validated by my software choice. I'm very happy to pay a reasonable amount for a well written app. It's an even better feeling if I know it's going to a small developer (Coda, CSSEdit etc).

Why should users care about open source?

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 07:28 PM
Skimming through this thread, I can't see anyone "shitting all over the open source scene". Open source is good stuff :thumbup:
http://forums.mactalk.com.au/56/54550-app-store-games-hacked-3.html#post592279


I can go on and on about where I think software development is going to head. But yes, this is my personal opinion. What is not however, is the fact the piracy is not going away anytime soon, and this continued attempt to prevent it with closed off ['App'] stores or hideous ['iTunes'] DRM is not going to stop it, it will always be hacked. The whole process is counter productive, and is slowing down progress of finding a new business model that is sustainable in this changing landscape, what ever it maybe.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 07:29 PM
Open source is the way of the future as far as I'm concerned

Only program I use regularly that isn't is iTunes

If I can find a good way of getting iTunes to work (or if Amarok is a good enough substitute) Ubuntu may be where I'm headed next

Songbird is coming along very nicely

iSlayer
28th July 2008, 07:32 PM
The whole process is counter productive, and is slowing down progress of finding a new business model that is sustainable in this changing landscape, what ever it maybe.

Are you saying that the current model isnt sustainable ?. Its been sustainable for along time and there is nothing to suggest it cant continue to be for a hell of a long time to come. Piracy is never going to kill paid software or paid music or paid movies.
Music is the industry that has been hurt the most by piracy and its hardly dying. Most people still buy music and record companies still make a huge amount of money.

marc
28th July 2008, 07:32 PM
Songbird is coming along very nicely
Songbird is a piece of junk any owes its design queues to iTunes. Bad example.

Btw, you should respond to some of the points above.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 07:33 PM
If by "leeched" you mean used and contributed to by Apple, then you're right.

No, I mean using huge portions of code then only releasing a half arsed product in return, Darwin.

marc
28th July 2008, 07:37 PM
No, I mean using huge portions of code then only releasing a half arsed product in return, Darwin.
So what's your point? You've not making much sense.

Are you saying Apple don't contribute to open source? If you are... what about WebKit?

Also... it's is possible to write open source software for iPhones. You just need to distribute the source for the user to compile themselves.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 07:38 PM
Piracy is never going to kill paid software or paid music or paid movies
O great, everyone head to The Bay and leech away. :confused:

marc
28th July 2008, 07:41 PM
What evidence do you have that piracy of apps is stronger in 2008 than it was 10 years ago (or whatever timeframe suits)?

So far you haven't listed any facts... you've just been ranting and raving like someone who doesn't actually know much about the software industry.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 07:43 PM
So what's your point? You've not making much sense.
It is hard to talk sense into fanboys, correct.


Are you saying Apple don't contribute to open source? If you are... what about WebKit?
Wow, one piece of software.



Also... it's is possible to write open source software for iPhones. You just need to distribute the source for the user to compile themselves.
Only if the all mighty Apple feel like granting you permission to distribute the binary over the App Store. It is the customers phone, they have every right to install what ever they want on it. Just as its the customers music, they have every right to play it on any mp3 player.

Tiprya
28th July 2008, 07:45 PM
Open source software that is used by normal computer users are far superior to company produced programs IMO

Firefox, VLC, Transmission, Adium

I never said all users would be able to go 100% open source

Users should care about open source because:
(1) Its free
(2) for normal computing uses, the programs are better than what companies come up with because they're always trying to pull a dime out of you

Again, this all my opinon, but for 95% of computer users it is very possible they could switch to ubuntu or another sort of linux and it completely fulfill their needs

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 07:47 PM
What evidence do you have that piracy of apps is stronger in 2008 than it was 10 years ago (or whatever timeframe suits)?
A quick Google, ['In total, over a billion TV-shows are downloaded every year, and this number continues to rise.'] (50% Of All BitTorrent Downloads are TV-Shows | TorrentFreak (http://torrentfreak.com/50-percent-bittorrent-downloads-tv-080214/comment-page-3/))

rooread
28th July 2008, 07:48 PM
This debate is always an firey one and I find both sides of this argument fascinating food for thought. If you can all hold back on the aggro this thread will make interesting reading.

ps: I'd be lost without VLC and firefox.

marc
28th July 2008, 07:49 PM
It is hard to talk sense into fanboys, correct.
I'm no fanboy. I've used quite a few platforms over the years.

I just use whatever is the best for my purpose at the time. I'd gladly ditch OS X if something better (for me) existed.


Wow, one piece of software.
Hey, one example is better than your none.


Only if the all mighty Apple feel like granting you permission to distribute the binary over the App Store.
Nup. Wrong again. Give me some source code and I'll get it running on my iPhone. You just need to install the SDK and purchase a dev license ($99). All the open source software on your iPhone you want. Please check your facts before posting.


Just as its the customers music, they have every right to play it on any mp3 player.
Apple hate DRM (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/). iTunes plus can be played on any player that can play AAC files. Again, check your facts.

You seem so quick to judge, but don't seem willing to make a few quick google searches before posting.


A quick Google, ['In total, over a billion TV-shows are downloaded every year, and this number continues to rise.'] (50% Of All BitTorrent Downloads are TV-Shows | TorrentFreak (http://torrentfreak.com/50-percent-bittorrent-downloads-tv-080214/comment-page-3/))
We're talking about applications in this thread. I'm quite happy to take it off topic and talk about the music or film industry and DRM, but trust me, you don't want to do that. :p

Also:
Apple iTunes Music Sales Top 5 Billion Songs -- InformationWeek (http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/ipod/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208700675)

iSlayer
28th July 2008, 07:49 PM
A quick Google, ['In total, over a billion TV-shows are downloaded every year, and this number continues to rise.'] (50% Of All BitTorrent Downloads are TV-Shows | TorrentFreak (http://torrentfreak.com/50-percent-bittorrent-downloads-tv-080214/comment-page-3/))

That proves lots of people download tv shows. It doesn't prove people still don't buy them. I haven't seen anything to suggest that all that downloading is killing dvds sales.


It is the customers phone, they have every right to install what ever they want on it

Doesn't mean apple have to provide a way to do it.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 07:59 PM
Hey, one example is better than your none.
What you want examples of good open source software? See above from the other guy.


Nup. Wrong again. Give me some source code and I'll get it running on my iPhone. You just need to install the SDK and purchase a dev license ($99). All the open source software on your iPhone you want. Please check your facts before posting.
This is not main stream obviously, and thus not a viable option for a small software house to distribute apps that Apple don't approve. And this still won't grant the developers access to features Apple have decided to keep to themselves.



Apple hate DRM (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/). iTunes plus can be played on any player that can play AAC files. Again, check your facts.
Funny how they only come out with that nice piece of PR gem right before releasing DRM free. It's a piblicity stunt. I am aware DRM-Free is an option, but it is more expensive. I don't blame Apple, but is still relevent when discussing copywrite.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 08:03 PM
Doesn't mean apple have to provide a way to do it.
I believe Microsoft had a similar argument about Internet Explorer and using a third party browser,in the 90's, I wonder if you were so understanding to them.

marc
28th July 2008, 08:08 PM
This is not main stream obviously, and thus not a viable option for a small software house to distribute apps that Apple don't approve.
Not viable for someone wanting to distribute open source software???? Why not?

Btw, there's no evidence of Apple blocking any apps on the app store. There's some utter crap on there, so they're certainly not screening.


And this still won't grant the developers access to features Apple have decided to keep to themselves.
Like running background processes? That's for the benefit of users. As an iPhone app developer, I'm really glad Apple did that. It means the iPhone will be a more reliable platform because of it.


Funny how they only come out with that nice piece of PR gem right before releasing DRM free. It's a piblicity stunt. I am aware DRM-Free is an option, but it is more expensive. I don't blame Apple, but is still relevent when discussing copywrite.
Oh come on. DRM exists because record labels want it, not because Apple want it. Any label can add songs with or without DRM... it's entirely up to the label.

Keep trying :) So far you haven't been able to post anything actually true or convincing.

lurka
28th July 2008, 08:10 PM
there was something about feeding trolls.......

I cant quite put my finger on it ;)

timothy
28th July 2008, 08:13 PM
CoreyE has a Dell...

You guys are kicking someone when they are down...

Chin up CoreyE, things will get better for you mate...

marc
28th July 2008, 08:14 PM
Ok, let's drag this back on topic... where is this piracy revolution coming from? When's it going to happen? Where's the evidence of it?

Showing stats on piracy don't support any argument, because a lot of people who pirate wouldn't have bought the original anyway. The only evidence that counts is showing actual industry downturn.

forgie
28th July 2008, 08:16 PM
I can go on and on about where I think software development is going to head. But yes, this is my personal opinion. What is not however, is the fact the piracy is not going away anytime soon, and this continued attempt to prevent it with closed off ['App'] stores or hideous ['iTunes'] DRM is not going to stop it, it will always be hacked. The whole process is counter productive, and is slowing down progress of finding a new business model that is sustainable in this changing landscape, what ever it maybe.
Hehe. Yeah. Um..... I don't even know where to start with that! :)

The App Store is one of the best arrangements for small software houses EVER. And your deduction is.... everyone will rebel and the revolution is coming? With the App Store, everyone wins - easy distribution, no overheads for developers, no worrying about piracy for 99% of your target market... everyone is happy. But the revolution is coming? Look out guys, we're all going to be out of a job because free software is taking over!

Keep it coming, this is entertaining! :)

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 08:20 PM
Not viable for someone wanting to distribute open source software???? Why not?
As it forces all potential users to pay $99 for a SDK kit! Imagine if Microsoft said you can only install third party apps on Windows if you purchase a SDK, would u be cool with that? But no, because its the all might Apple, we take what ever they say as gospal.


Btw, there's no evidence of Apple blocking any apps on the app store. There's some utter crap on there, so they're certainly not screening.All GPS based software will blocked.




Like running background processes? That's for the benefit of users. As an iPhone app developer, I'm really glad Apple did that. It means the iPhone will be a more reliable platform because of it.Real reason, they don't want to allow running a IM client in the background, so when they finally get their act together and release iChat for it, it will be the only client that can run continusly. And copy-and-paste apps is something else that this prevents.



Oh come on. DRM exists because record labels want it, not because Apple want it. Any label can add songs with or without DRM... it's entirely up to the label.
I clearly said DRM is a music industry isssue.



Keep trying :) So far you haven't been able to post anything actually true or convincing.
I no longer remember what we are attacking each other over. My orgianl intention was to propose what I see the effects of piracy having on the software development in the future. Though we both have gotten far off topic. It was indeed a fun debate, however :thumbup::p

MrJesseRoss
28th July 2008, 08:21 PM
I'd just like to point out that DRM free music on iTunes hasn't been more expensive than normal for a good 10 months or so.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 08:23 PM
The App Store is one of the best arrangements for small software houses EVER. And your deduction is
If you're App happens to fit Apple's plan, and isn't competition to their own products, upcoming or current.

markpalavra
28th July 2008, 08:26 PM
From this...


I can go on and on about where I think software development is going to head.



to this...


slowing down progress of finding a new business model that is sustainable in this changing landscape, what ever it maybe.


So, you propose a software revolution... of which you could go on and on about.... but you have no idea of a possible business model that would be sustainable for the revolution to survive???


Please, go make a fool of yourself with the other children.

Aaron
28th July 2008, 08:29 PM
Cheers to marc & iSlayer for the insightful views on the software industry. Where did that donate button go...

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 08:29 PM
but you have no idea of a possible business model that would be sustainable for the revolution to survive???
See earlier pages

Barcode
28th July 2008, 08:30 PM
As it forces all potential users to pay $99 for a SDK kit! Imagine if Microsoft said you can only install third party apps on Windows if you purchase a SDK, would u be cool with that? But no, because its the all might Apple, we take what ever they say as gospal.

All GPS based software will blocked.



Real reason, they don't want to allow running a IM client in the background, so when they finally get their act together and release iChat for it, it will be the only client that can run continusly. And copy-and-paste apps is something else that this prevents.



I clearly said DRM is a music industry isssue.



I no longer remember what we are attacking each other over. My orgianl intention was to propose what I see the effects of piracy having on the software development in the future. Though we both have gotten far off topic. It was indeed a fun debate, however :thumbup::p

OK... This is really quite hilarious. You are obviously not an iPhone developer nor do you have any experience in this area.

1. This is the cheapest SDK for any mobile device.

2. Yo are just plain wrong. Navigation services are allowed, and even being supported by the next round of software. Now, you don't have to do calculations yourself for it, it is being done by the OS. They would never have included Core Navigation in the SDK if it werent.

3. You get just plain stupid here. People are already complaining about battery life, and you want to open up background processes. See how this drains a windows mobile device? THINK FOR A SECOND MAN! iChat for iPhone? Why let AIM do a program if Apple just wipes it out? No sense here. iChat for iPhone is just plain stupid at this stage. Apple works with AOL closely at this stage and told them to develop their own IM for it. The Push Notification service does everything you would expect for UI in background, except there is no background processor usage.

4. I agree, its a software industry issue... but its in their noble attempts to make sure they aren't killed by pigs who steal music. Copy on an OS is no less threatening than cut on an OS. The diagram stating that there is a difference between theft and piracy is just stupid. It is theft. You are stealing artistic work by copying it without flaws. The artist deserves the royalties for their work to get paid in the first place.

markpalavra
28th July 2008, 08:31 PM
Again, this all my opinon, but for 95% of computer users it is very possible they could switch to ubuntu or another sort of linux and it completely fulfill their needs


Haha!

Can I have a go at this random statistic generator game you are playing?



I'd be more likely to say that 95% of computer users wouldn't even know how to install Linux!


Just remember, "all computer users" does not mean you and your mates.

marc
28th July 2008, 08:33 PM
As it forces all potential users to pay $99 for a SDK kit!
You've just bought a $800ish dollar phone and you're complaining about a $99 add on? The developer of an app can also distribute it ad-hoc to 100 users ... for free (free for the users).

There's no forcing at all.


All GPS based software will blocked.
Not true. Location services are available to all apps.

On the flip side of that, any app that wants to use your location will have to be approved by the user for privacy reasons.


Real reason, they don't want to allow running a IM client in the background, so when they finally get their act together and release iChat for it, it will be the only client that can run continusly.
You're just showing more holes in your knowledge here. There's a notification service coming in September that will allow external servers to push a notification to a user's phone. This will typically be shown as a badge on an app (like the SMS and Mail app does when you have messages).


And copy-and-paste apps is something else that this prevents.
Eh? There's nothing stopping developers from adding copy + paste to their own apps. There's also evidence that copy + paste is coming in firmware 2.1. It's likely (but not as exciting) that Apple simply haven't come up with a method they like for copy and paste yet, so it hasn't been implemented.


My orgianl intention was to propose what I see the effects of piracy having on the software development in the future.
Doesn't look like you've done a particularly good job of making a point :)

Barcode
28th July 2008, 08:37 PM
*shakes marc's hand*

Finally someone who understands my POV...

*shakes marc's hand again*

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 08:39 PM
OK... This is really quite hilarious. You are obviously not an iPhone developer nor do you have any experience in this area.

1. This is the cheapest SDK for any mobile device.

2. Yo are just plain wrong. Navigation services are allowed, and even being supported by the next round of software. Now, you don't have to do calculations yourself for it, it is being done by the OS. They would never have included Core Navigation in the SDK if it werent.

3. You get just plain stupid here. People are already complaining about battery life, and you want to open up background processes. See how this drains a windows mobile device? THINK FOR A SECOND MAN! iChat for iPhone? Why let AIM do a program if Apple just wipes it out? No sense here. iChat for iPhone is just plain stupid at this stage. Apple works with AOL closely at this stage and told them to develop their own IM for it. The Push Notification service does everything you would expect for UI in background, except there is no background processor usage.

4. I agree, its a software industry issue... but its in their noble attempts to make sure they aren't killed by pigs who steal music. Copy on an OS is no less threatening than cut on an OS. The diagram stating that there is a difference between theft and piracy is just stupid. It is theft. You are stealing artistic work by copying it without flaws. The artist deserves the royalties for their work to get paid in the first place.

1. Sigh. Obviously this is cheap for a SDK, but requiring end users to install it (as was suggested by someone here) to install apps that don't get published on the App Store, is ridiculous.

2. It clearly states turn by turn navigation will not be aloud on the App Store.

3. Battery life? Come on. My Symbian phone can have IM running days on end.

4. I'm not going to touch the music industry here, thats a whole other bag of worms.

MissionMan
28th July 2008, 08:43 PM
Actually, someone brought up an interesting point. How can apple not supply trials of some of its software? I wanted to buy final cut express, but I'm not prepared to go on reviews. No trials so I didn't buy it. In didn't pirate it, I still don't have anything to use and imovie is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 08:45 PM
You've just bought a $800ish dollar phone and you're complaining about a $99 add on? The developer of an app can also distribute it ad-hoc to 100 users ... for free (free for the users).
And they should be able to deliver their product to an unlimted number of users, without having to go through Apple's censored service. If the user should so choose to install un-verified software.



Not true. Location services are available to all apps.
Turn-by-turn




Eh? There's nothing stopping developers from adding copy + paste to their own apps. There's also evidence that copy + paste is coming in firmware 2.1. It's likely (but not as exciting) that Apple simply haven't come up with a method they like for copy and paste yet, so it hasn't been implemented.
Copy and past within one App yes, obviously. However there are solutions for a jailbroken phone that allow copy and paste to work between apps, by running an App in the background. Why should a user have to risk voiding there warranty to install such a essential feature?

marc
28th July 2008, 08:48 PM
1. Sigh. Obviously this is cheap for a SDK, but requiring end users to install it (as was suggested by someone here) to install apps that don't get published on the App Store, is ridiculous.

And they should be able to deliver their product to an unlimted number of users, without having to go through Apple's censored service. If the user should so choose to install un-verified software.
How's this for an idea for open source apps... release on the app store for free, then place the source code online. The Wordpress app has already done just that. Open source apps on the iPhone are a reality. Also, there's no evidence Apple have blocked any apps, so don't use that as an argument.


2. It clearly states turn by turn navigation will not be aloud on the App Store.
Yes it does. Not sure why, but that's only a very, very small category of apps that may not be allowed. It seems this might have been to avoid being sued by idiot Americans who've crashed their car.


3. Battery life? Come on. My Symbian phone can have IM running days on end.
Well, all of us who have run jailbroken iPhones can confirm that running IM or other apps in the background does kill battery life.


Copy and past within one App yes, obviously. However there are solutions for a jailbroken phone that allow copy and paste to work between apps, by running an App in the background. Why should a user have to risk voiding there warranty to install such a essential feature?
Whaaa? Why should you be able to run something that patches or intercepts functions over Apple's apps?

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 08:52 PM
Sigh I surrender....

RGSX12
28th July 2008, 08:52 PM
I think the piracy revolution is coming, if not already. My definition of this is that it's a 'revolution' because it is so easy for the average user to get online and download a TV show, movie or application. I'd agree that piracy has always been around and always will be, but I think that only recently has it become so simple and easy for EVERYONE to do on such a large scale.

Great thread :thumbup:

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 08:54 PM
I think the piracy revolution is coming, if not already. My definition of this is that it's a 'revolution' because it is so easy for the average user to get online and download a TV show, movie or application. I'd agree that piracy has always been around and always will be, but I think that only recently has it become so simple and easy for EVERYONE to do on such a large scale.

Great thread :thumbup:


This was orgianlly my main opinion, however, I do admit I got greatly OT

juzz
28th July 2008, 09:01 PM
Yeah, I think everything after page 2 is wayyyy OT, at least sort of. It's become a very extrapolated conversation about apps being hacked. Not that I mind.

Anyways, I understand that piracy isn't going to help any industry, but I don't believe it will ever be stopped.

There are too many selfish people like me out there that don't have the money to buy everything they want, so they steal it lol.

Sad, but true.

Aaron
28th July 2008, 09:01 PM
I can't believe the thread has lasted without this:
hpv6_6pCpY8

Barcode
28th July 2008, 09:08 PM
1. Sigh. Obviously this is cheap for a SDK, but requiring end users to install it (as was suggested by someone here) to install apps that don't get published on the App Store, is ridiculous.

2. It clearly states turn by turn navigation will not be aloud on the App Store.

3. Battery life? Come on. My Symbian phone can have IM running days on end.

4. I'm not going to touch the music industry here, thats a whole other bag of worms.

1. The only OS required to install the program is the one already on the device. You do not require a further OS, just a Provision installed, and that is easy done by just giving the developer your UDID.

2. That will change - at the current time it is for legal reasons due to the implications of driving, and if your iPhone tells you to turn and you turn into a truck. They are providing the frameworks to allow this, but are currently restricting it for legal reasons. They don't want to be responsible for it.

Your symbian phone will only run a simplistic OS with a very basic interaction. A touch UI with a full 3" screen and a full OS supporting it - that takes more power (and is your device 2G or 3G?)

Linux_insidev2
28th July 2008, 09:12 PM
Back to the freaking topic at hand...

It uses a method I had predicted, basically running it on an authorised device and doing a memory dump.

CoreyE
28th July 2008, 09:20 PM
Your symbian phone will only run a simplistic OS with a very basic interaction. A touch UI with a full 3" screen and a full OS supporting it - that takes more power (and is your device 2G or 3G?)

It's 3G, and yes it is a 2.6 touch screen, 200mhz. Obviously iPhone has more power and needs more battery. I still don't believe this is the reason. But I'll agree to disagree.

Tiprya
28th July 2008, 09:20 PM
Back to the freaking topic at hand...

It uses a method I had predicted, basically running it on an authorised device and doing a memory dump.

Does this mean more hacked apps are inevitable?

marc
28th July 2008, 09:23 PM
*shakes Barcode's hand for him being sensible*

Why allow background apps when there's another (better) solution? Most legitimate apps just want to be sent notifications so they can show badges on their icon. Also... the current method of closing an app when pressing the home button stops long term memory leaks.

Agree to disagree all you like, it's a smart choice. If you want something different, get yourself an Open Moko phone.

ChrisG
28th July 2008, 09:26 PM
$12 is a good price for a game, considering some games on other platforms sell for a higher price ($80), this is a bargain!

forgie
28th July 2008, 09:47 PM
I think the piracy revolution is coming, if not already. My definition of this is that it's a 'revolution' because it is so easy for the average user to get online and download a TV show, movie or application. I'd agree that piracy has always been around and always will be, but I think that only recently has it become so simple and easy for EVERYONE to do on such a large scale.

Great thread :thumbup:
You obviously weren't around in the early days of macs and PCs.... :)

Back then, copy protection either didn't exist, or it consisted of a serial number that you could copy with a pen. That's it. People would pass around pirated software on floppy disks all the time. It was extremely common place. If you didn't know many computer users back then (or weren't one yourself) then it is understandable that you wouldn't remember this, but for those that were....

In the software world, piracy may have even reduced. Without any stats to back that up though, we are all merely pissing in the wind! :)

marc
28th July 2008, 09:57 PM
People would pass around pirated software on floppy disks all the time.
And not only that, there were loads of BBSs (bulletin boards) that had pirated software. There were 0 day cracks on games and apps waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before the internet was born.

As much as things have changed, nothing has.

Xenex
28th July 2008, 10:01 PM
http://www.opinionstick.com/img/no_stealing.jpg

lavo
28th July 2008, 10:01 PM
You obviously weren't around in the early days of macs and PCs.... :)

Back then, copy protection either didn't exist, or it consisted of a serial number that you could copy with a pen. That's it. People would pass around pirated software on floppy disks all the time. It was extremely common place. If you didn't know many computer users back then (or weren't one yourself) then it is understandable that you wouldn't remember this, but for those that were....

In the software world, piracy may have even reduced. Without any stats to back that up though, we are all merely pissing in the wind! :)

In the early days of Macs and PCs, gamers played C64s, Amigas and Amstrads :D Piracy was made so much easier when Sony and the like brought out double tape deck hifis. Code wheels could be photocopied, etc. Then people got into floppy disks, and copying was again made easier by the Freeze Machine and Action Replay cartridges. Whenever there was a spike in protection methods, crackers generally got around it. It is pretty common knowledge amongst the Amiga fraternity that piracy had a big hand in killing the platform. Software Houses got sick of putting out games that very few people would buy but were quite happy to pirate. It was a lot harder to do that with the cartridge-based consoles of the time period.

Anyhow, I think the piracy argument put forward here is lame. There is plenty of free software out there that will do the job - for starters you can install Ubuntu on a cheap PC and play plenty of great open source games. If you want to play the great games on Windows or on the iPhone, then expect to pay for the higher level of development.

On topic - if you can afford an iPhone, you can afford $12 to spring for the game. End of.

juzz
29th July 2008, 12:12 AM
Update: Many, many, many more games have now been cracked and are being shared.

Crash, Enigmo, Dreigit, Dizzy Bee and Pinball just to name a few.

Seems like only a matter of time before the whole app store will be cracked :|.

Not sure if this is a good thing or not (probably not), maybe (and this is being really really optimistic) developers will lower the prices of their apps to try and deter people from hacking their iPhone to get free apps? Obviously won't work on everyone, but if Pool was $5 or under I'd already have it. I'm probably still going to buy it anyway but you get my point.

I'll add this little update to the first post aswell.

nando
30th July 2008, 11:20 AM
Update: Many, many, many more games have now been cracked and are being shared.

Crash, Enigmo, Dreigit, Dizzy Bee and Pinball just to name a few.

Seems like only a matter of time before the whole app store will be cracked :|.

Not sure if this is a good thing or not (probably not), maybe (and this is being really really optimistic) developers will lower the prices of their apps to try and deter people from hacking their iPhone to get free apps? Obviously won't work on everyone, but if Pool was $5 or under I'd already have it. I'm probably still going to buy it anyway but you get my point.

I'll add this little update to the first post aswell.

I think this is bad news..as to ..why would anyone develop for the iphone IF there is a high probability of ur app being craked and use without paying royalties to the developers?!

~Coxy
30th July 2008, 11:23 AM
I think this is bad news..as to ..why would anyone develop for the iphone IF there is a high probability of ur app being craked and use without paying royalties to the developers?!

That's the same for every platform under the sun though. PC, Mac, Java cell phone games, songs, TV shows, consoles games - everything can be pirated. People still manage to make money off producing and selling them, though.

bartron
30th July 2008, 11:25 AM
I think time will tell.

The iPhone/iTouch software industry would be kidding themselves if they thought this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

Currently the App store is experienceing a honeymoon period...people with new iphones and ipods checking things out etc. Once the whole thing becomes humdrum then we'll see what kind of revenue the app store can generate.

juzz
30th July 2008, 11:04 PM
That's the same for every platform under the sun though. PC, Mac, Java cell phone games, songs, TV shows, consoles games - everything can be pirated. People still manage to make money off producing and selling them, though.

Good point. Also, now that I think about it, a lot less people will be jailbreaking their iPhones and iPods than there will be people with flashed xboxs and chipped wiis. The former must be done yourself (unless you get Decryption to do it for you lol), the later can be easily bought pre-hacked or taken to be hacked. I don't think iPhone hacking will become as mainstream.


I think time will tell.

The iPhone/iTouch software industry would be kidding themselves if they thought this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

Currently the App store is experienceing a honeymoon period...people with new iphones and ipods checking things out etc. Once the whole thing becomes humdrum then we'll see what kind of revenue the app store can generate.

Good point also. Although there seem to be a lot of people that are willing to pay for apps and will continue to do so as newer and better apps start to sturface.

I guess only time will tell.

dolbinau
31st July 2008, 04:22 PM
Also, now that I think about it, a lot less people will be jailbreaking their iPhones and iPods than there will be people with flashed xboxs and chipped wiis.

Really? I thought it would be the opposite, because for modchips you actually have to buy something.

Erwin
31st July 2008, 04:29 PM
No! Hacking the thing will help make the device more open(like it should have always been), allowing smaller developers to release more free open source apps, that utilize all of the phone's features, not just what Apple wants you to have access to.

Piracy is simply a stepping stone in the software revolution that is coming. And restrictions like App Store (and iTunes DRM, in general) are just slowing this evolution.

How is piracy, which is stealing people's hard work and intellectual property, a "software revolution"? I mean, if you spent hours developing a piece of software, which is your livelihood, how would people hacking and stealing it a "revolution"? And how is the App Store slowing down this revolution when it is helping software developers sell their software in an easier manner?

Edit: Finally read the rest of the thread. Sorry to respond to your earlier post like that - others have responded with eloquent and logical arguments.

Software piracy, and intellectual property theft, will always be an illegal thing that deprives others of their rightful gain, no matter how people want to justify things. Call it what you want, you are still stealing, and you are still a thief, when you do this.

juzz
1st August 2008, 05:57 AM
Really? I thought it would be the opposite, because for modchips you actually have to buy something.

But most people are willing to spend $50 on a mod when it saves them from having to spend $100 a game.

Out of everyone I know with an iPhone I am the only one who has it jailbroken. If I mention the words "iPhone" and "hack" in the same sentence they cringe. They (like some people here) think that by hacking their iPhone it will blow up and/or Apple will find out and have them arrested.

A slight exageration, but you get my point.