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andrew.wilson
20th April 2008, 11:51 PM
ok - fixed earlier issues but repairing permissions off the Leopard CD, now i am just stuck with this really annoying one;

Firstly, excuse the lack of capitals, that is issue number one...it seems to come and go but what happens is certain letters on the top row don't work as capitals when using the shift key. the shift key works fine though for other letters and so does caps lock. For example, if i type my top row of letters while holding shift this is what i get;

qwertyuioP - only P worked, this changes around though though :confused:

-this only happens on the left shift key
-plugging an external keyboard in solves the problem
-it happens even in a new user account

this makes me thin hardware issue, but why then does the shift key work for very other letter and those letters work normally without the key???

the only changes is that i got a top case replaced last week...no new software or anything. i understand though that a new top case also = new keyboard and mouse.

the MB is almost unusable, especially when i am trying to type assgignments and capital leters arent working.

it is a late 2006 C2D MacBook 2.0GHZ, 1GB rAM and 80GB HD which has about 10GB free.

i am running 10.5.2 with all the latest updates including all the pro applications updates i installed around the same time...

what can i do about this? repairing permissions? Please don't say fresh install.... :thumbdn:

thanks guys :(

Graham
20th April 2008, 11:56 PM
Try OnyX to run the maintenance jobs. One other thing to try might be to create a new account and see if the same problems appear there. If they don't then it's a matter of tracking down dodgy preference files.

Lutze
20th April 2008, 11:58 PM
What is the CPU usage like? If it's high what applications / processes are taking up the most cycles?

Have you tried both Shift keys to get caps? Is what you posted the best that the keyboard can do with caps / shift etc?

andrew.wilson
21st April 2008, 12:02 AM
edit: Fixed these issues...

andrew.wilson
21st April 2008, 12:47 AM
okay, ran a repair permissions from the CD which took ages and had heaps of things come up... Highlighting and the dock etc. are working now.

i still have this keyboard issue though. i have discovered it only happens when the left shft key is used, the right one seems to work fine.

i don't understand how it can be a hardware issue though? :confused: why does pressing left shift + any other key except qwertyuio work but not those?

Like i said, i did have the topcase/keyboard replaced and it has only happened after that, but it didnt happen straight away. Also, i updated the keyboard firmware that came out the other day at the same time i got the computer back.

is this a hardware issue, is there a fix?

fiark
21st April 2008, 07:36 AM
Edit: Didn't see that it was a Macbook.

andrew.wilson
21st April 2008, 10:54 AM
An unofficial opinion: I would say your mouse is dying.

I had problems with my keyboard and the type of things you are mentioning and it turned out that I needed a new mouse - It was causing my whole system to freeze and act strangely. Is your mouse plugged into the USB on your keyboard by chance?

it's a Macbook, i only usually use the built in mouse and keyboard.

So far this morning i have found;

-the other shift key does work, just not the left one
-shutting it down overnight didn't work
-creating a new user gave me the same issue
-plugging an external (Al) keyboard in, the issue is gone!

that leaves me to believe it is a hardware issue, but how :confused: Can someone with better understanding fill me in :)

Next stop, running maintenance scripts and trying the keyboard in boot camp.

then, calling Next Byte.

Any other ideas? thanks guys. :)

vecsty
21st April 2008, 11:05 AM
can you do a restart and post the log files here, from cold boot to login.

bartron
21st April 2008, 11:05 AM
that leaves me to believe it is a hardware issue, but how :confused:

Left shift and right shift are two seperate keys and produce two seperate commands when pressed. Most of the time they both do the same thing though.

If an external keyboard works then it may well be a hardware problem or it could be a problem with OS X not parsing the internal keyboard properly...bootcamp should let you know if that is the case (or try a linux live CD if you have one....or boot the macbook from a firewire drive with a seperate install of OS X)

My bet is o a hardware issue though....if it were OS X then the external keyboard would exhibit the same behaviour

vecsty
21st April 2008, 11:12 AM
that leaves me to believe it is a hardware issue, but how :confused: Can someone with better understanding fill me in :)


Booting off the installer or retail CD and seeing this behaviour would show that its a hardware issue.

dotnet
21st April 2008, 11:31 AM
Have a look at the battery, too. A mate of mine recently had trouble with his trackpad, and tried all sorts of things to get it working reliably - fixed perms, restored from backup, reinstalled. In the end it was a bulging battery that was exerting too much pressure on the pad. Maybe this can affect the keyboard, too?

Cheers
Steffen.

MacDave
21st April 2008, 11:42 AM
Andrew -

There's really only one sure way to tell if it's indeed a hardware issue (and it sure sounds like it is...)

Do what vecsty suggests and see if the issue persists or what I'd do personally is fire the macbook up from my emergency FW boot drive running both OS 10.4.11 (I should really update it though to Leopard) for PPC and Intel on two partitions.

Creating a new user account to see if problems persist clearly only tells you if there's a problem with an existing user account. You need to rule out the possibility that it has anything to do with your OS itself globally.

This is just not the kind of problem that fixing perms or even running "repair disk" from the install CD would be likely to fix. Using maintenance utilities like Onyx is not such a great idea either. Sometimes, they do more damage than good. And, obviously if it's a hardware issue, it would be totally pointless.

Also, have a look in your Console's logs just to see if there are any abnormalities.

Dotnet has pointed out another possibility.

Good luck,

Dave

andrew.wilson
21st April 2008, 11:56 AM
Andrew -

There's really only one sure way to tell if it's indeed a hardware issue (and it sure sounds like it is...)

Do what vecsty suggests and see if the issue persists or what I'd do personally is fire the macbook up from my emergency FW boot drive running both OS 10.4.11 (I should really update it though to Leopard) for PPC and Intel on two partitions.

Creating a new user account to see if problems persist clearly only tells you if there's a problem with an existing user account. You need to rule out the possibility that it has anything to do with your OS itself globally.

This is just not the kind of problem that fixing perms or even running "repair disk" from the install CD would be likely to fix. Using maintenance utilities like Onyx is not such a great idea either. Sometimes, they do more damage than good. And, obviously if it's a hardware issue, it would be totally pointless.

Also, have a look in your Console's logs just to see if there are any abnormalities.

Dotnet has pointed out another possibility.

Good luck,

Dave

thanks Dave - i don't have an external install to boot from sadly so the best thing i could do was run a Live Linux CD and BootCamp - same issue on both. Safe Boot also had the same issue.

i will try taking the battery out and having a look at it, but don't hold much hope.

off to Next Byte tomorrow.... :rolleyes:

thanks everyone for the suggestions :)

vecsty
21st April 2008, 12:01 PM
Good advice from macdave, get an emergency FW/USB boot drive in your tool kit.

andrew.wilson
21st April 2008, 12:34 PM
Good news - I called Next Byte, must have got the boss on the phone and told him what had happened and he said bring it in tomorrow and they'll look at it for me on the spot as it is an issue that has happened post service

Gotta love service like that :thumbup:

Here's hoping I can get it fixed nice and quickly...

snark
21st April 2008, 02:58 PM
Good advice from macdave, get an emergency FW/USB boot drive in your tool kit.
This might sound like a dumb question, but does the OS X license allow you to install it on a second hard drive for booting in an emergency?

MacDave
21st April 2008, 03:45 PM
This might sound like a dumb question, but does the OS X license allow you to install it on a second hard drive for booting in an emergency?

You can draw your own conclusions from here:

Apple - Legal - Sample Mac OS X Software License Agreement (http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html)

2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time,and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time. You may make one copy of the Apple Software (excluding the Boot ROM code) in machine-readable form for backup purposes only; provided that the backup copy must include all copyright or other proprietary notices contained on the original.

Dave

bartron
21st April 2008, 03:46 PM
This might sound like a dumb question, but does the OS X license allow you to install it on a second hard drive for booting in an emergency?

I think it would be OK. You would still only be running one instance of OS X at a time. It's installing on multiple computers that Apple wouldn't want you doing.

snark
21st April 2008, 03:58 PM
You can draw your own conclusions from here:

Apple - Legal - Sample Mac OS X Software License Agreement (http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html)

Thanks Dave - I reckon that a copy stored on a bootable disk would still qualify as 'for backup purposes', eh?

Graham
21st April 2008, 08:40 PM
You can draw your own conclusions from here:

This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer at a time

If you boot off another disk it is still existing on only one computer at any given time even though it may exist on multiple storage units.

ozboi
21st April 2008, 09:24 PM
The first thing that came to mind for me was: did you spill coffee, or any other liquid, into the keyboard? Is there a chance that somebody else did?

It would explain everything -- the liquid shorts the low-voltage circuit of the keyboard which can screw up which buttons work, which one's don't, and how some buttons can appear to work when you press a different one, or why only some work in certain combinations. Only a tiny drop is needed in the wrong spot to make the keyboard go screwy ... I know, I've done it several times before.

If not liquid, could also be something else that is conductive.

[edit] I just noticed that you said you got a new top case (i.e. keyboard) so it may be a manufacturing fault, or something that got in there during the install.

andrew.wilson
21st April 2008, 09:40 PM
[edit] I just noticed that you said you got a new top case (i.e. keyboard) so it may be a manufacturing fault, or something that got in there during the install.[/QUOTE]

Yup...I'm almost certain that the new part is either faulty or not installed properly. A top case replacement also replaces the keyboard and trackpad.

As I said last page, I called them up today and was told to bring it in tomorrow and they will look at it on the spot for me. Very happy with the response...hopefully it will be a speedy fix...