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View Full Version : PowerBook Duos, Duo Dock IIs, Duo MiniDocks....



forgie
2nd December 2007, 12:14 AM
I have some Ye Olde PowerBook Duo gear that I'll be offloading soon here on MTAU. But before I do that, I will need to try and work out what is working, and what isn't. I also need to get all the files off the HDDs.

Here's what I've got:
2 x Powerbook Duo 2300c
1 x Powerbook Duo 280
2 x Duo Dock II
1 x Duo MiniDock
1 x Dayna "EasyNet" ethernet-to-Dock-network-plug-thingy adapter
1 x AC Adapter

Now I have a slight dilemma.... I don't have any way of viewing the video output from the Duo Docks, but I can't use ethernet unless the Duos are in a Dock. What's the best/easiest/quickest way of copying all the files off these laptops onto a modern mac? Is AFP in 10.5 compatible with ye olde Appleshare from the early 90s? Does anyone have any tips, suggestions, or links to pages that will help me set up sharing?

timwallG5
2nd December 2007, 07:00 AM
I'd love a PowerBook Duo 2300c. Put me down for one.

The easiest way to copy the files off of them would be via AppleShare.
I think you have to connect to the modern Mac from the older PowerBook for it to work.

Other than that I'd have no idea. Perhaps a SCSI HD; but you couldn't access that from a modern Mac without a Ultra SCSI PCI card.

It'd have to be over Ethernet, definately. Or via Zip disk with a Zip drive.

pezza_mac
2nd December 2007, 08:22 AM
*****...

Byrd
2nd December 2007, 08:34 AM
Hi forgie,

I can probably sort you out using my PB540 (with ethernet) and/or external SCSI hard disk :) The other option is putting a NUBUS ethernet card into the Duo Dock and dumping everything onto that (although I think the Dock II requires modification to get a 2300c to fit).

PM me if you want to organise something!

JB

forgie
2nd December 2007, 09:16 PM
On a related note - what are the options for connecting a 2300c to the net? Is it limited to either dialup or ethernet+Duo Dock? Is there any way to get ethernet without the Dock II? My Dock IIs have ethernet cards in them already....

byrd: The Duo 2300c's fit into the Duo Dock II with no problem - they have exactly the same profile as the Duo 280.

Byrd
2nd December 2007, 09:34 PM
A 56K serial modem would work, provided drivers exist. There is nothing stopping the Duo + Ethernet in dock from accessing a router and connecting to the net that way (with MacTCP installed). The lowly 100Mhz 603e PPC CPU isn't too flash for all but the most basic browsing though, you'd probably do best running Opera 5.0 and/or iCab for it's browser, and running OS 8.1 for max stability.

JB

LCGuy
2nd December 2007, 10:49 PM
On a related note - what are the options for connecting a 2300c to the net? Is it limited to either dialup or ethernet+Duo Dock? Is there any way to get ethernet without the Dock II? My Dock IIs have ethernet cards in them already....

byrd: The Duo 2300c's fit into the Duo Dock II with no problem - they have exactly the same profile as the Duo 280.

So long as you can connect the 'Book to an ethernet network, and you have an "always on" internet connection (my broadband on 68k experience is limited, but IIRC there aren't many PPPoE solutions for 68k Macs), you're pretty much good to go, so long as you have Open Transport installed (System 7.5.3 onwards comes with it as a part of the OS, but it can easily be installed on any Mac OS going back to 7.1). Just make sure that you are definately using Open Transport and not "Classic Networking" (its easy to check...if you're using Classic Networking you'll have a Network and a MacTCP control panel, Open Transport has an AppleTalk and a TCP/IP control panel), as Classic Networking has no DHCP support (required for most broadband connections), whereas Open Transport quite happily supports DHCP.

Btw, instead of worrying about the Dock, you can use that Dayna adaptor, right? Its RJ-45, isn't it? Or is it ThinNet or something like that?

forgie
2nd December 2007, 11:06 PM
LCGuy: the Powerbook Duos only have power, printer and modem ports. You need either a Dock or a MiniDock to access anything else, and there's no ethernet port on the MiniDock. The Dayna adapter plugs into an ethernet card in the Dock itself.

Has anyone seen or had experience with a SCSI-to-Ethernet adapter like this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/external-scsi-to-ethernet-powerbook-microscsi-sonic_W0QQitemZ200179691987QQihZ010QQcategoryZ8003 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If it worked, I could use that with the MiniDock, and get rid of the full Dock. A SCSI-Ethernet adapter should be faster than a Serial-Localtalk-Ethernet adapter chain in theory.

LCGuy
2nd December 2007, 11:12 PM
LCGuy: the Powerbook Duos only have power, printer and modem ports. You need either a Dock or a MiniDock to access anything else, and there's no ethernet port on the MiniDock. The Dayna adapter plugs into an ethernet card in the Dock itself.


Oh, right, I'm sorry...I thought that the Dayna adaptor was a MicroDock, and I was thinking you could use that.

forgie
3rd December 2007, 12:23 PM
How about... this:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FARALLON-ETHERWAVE-AAUI-TRANSCEIVER-10BT-w-2RJ45-PORT_W0QQitemZ260188079119QQihZ016QQcategoryZ44926 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

Serial/Localtalk to Ethernet transceiver?

Bart Smastard
3rd December 2007, 12:38 PM
Of absolutely no use to the discussion, but why is it that Apple don't offer docks like the old Duo's for the current crop of portables?

I would imagine there'd be a reasonable market for a dock that could remain on the desk connected to a screen, keyboard, mouse, printer etc. Add a couple of PCI slots for a video card slot and suddenly the MacBook is capable of playing Quake along with the best of them.

Anyway, just another of my futile observations.

Sorry for the intrusion.

forgie
3rd December 2007, 02:06 PM
AFAIK, the old Duo/Dock ecosystem relied on direct connections to the various system busses through the PDS connector. Due to the high-speed of today's CPUs and Busses, there's no way you can just add a plug to it to connect a system to a "dock". You'd have to go with another inter-connect system, and be limited to either serial connections (USB2, FW400/800, eSata) or a parallel connection (PCI-X or something) with a massive-assed dock connector (this would be WAY more difficult from a technical point of view). High-speed modern parallel interfaces aren't hot-pluggable AFAIK, so for usability's sake, you'd probably limit it to the serial connections. And then you are left with this:

http://www.BookEndzDocks.com/63031558.jpg (http://www.BookEndzDocks.com/Docking_Stations-Docking_Station_for_13_MacBook_Black.html)

edit: Apple could design their own hot-pluggable high-speed parallel interface, but that'd be millions and millions of R&D dollars for arguable benefit. They could also integrate all of the onboard ports into a multi-plug at the back, and use that in a docking system. That would be the most likely way they'd do it if they did want to make a dockable system.

Bart Smastard
3rd December 2007, 03:14 PM
AFAIK, the old Duo/Dock ecosystem relied on direct connections to the various system busses through the PDS connector. Due to the high-speed of today's CPUs and Busses, there's no way you can just add a plug to it to connect a system to a "dock". You'd have to go with another inter-connect system, and be limited to either serial connections (USB2, FW400/800, eSata) or a parallel connection (PCI-X or something) with a massive-assed dock connector (this would be WAY more difficult from a technical point of view). High-speed modern parallel interfaces aren't hot-pluggable AFAIK, so for usability's sake, you'd probably limit it to the serial connections. And then you are left with this:

http://www.BookEndzDocks.com/63031558.jpg (http://www.BookEndzDocks.com/Docking_Stations-Docking_Station_for_13_MacBook_Black.html)

edit: Apple could design their own hot-pluggable high-speed parallel interface, but that'd be millions and millions of R&D dollars for arguable benefit. They could also integrate all of the onboard ports into a multi-plug at the back, and use that in a docking system. That would be the most likely way they'd do it if they did want to make a dockable system.

Every other laptop maker has some kind of dock connector, I can't see why Apple can't join the party.

forgie
3rd December 2007, 03:25 PM
Every other laptop maker has some kind of dock connector, I can't see why Apple can't join the party.
I just went to the Dell AU website, picked two laptops that looked vaguely comparable to Apple's offerings in terms of specs/design, and neither one had a dock connector. I'm sure some of them do, but they are by no means ever-present. On a macbook, where would you put the dock connector, anyway? There is no room left on either side or the back for more connectors.

jmd
3rd December 2007, 03:36 PM
Hi Forgie,




Has anyone seen or had experience with a SCSI-to-Ethernet adapter like this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/external-scsi-to-ethernet-powerbook-microscsi-sonic_W0QQitemZ200179691987QQihZ010QQcategoryZ8003 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem




Yes - worked well on an old Powerbook of mine. I also use an Ethernet to Appletalk adapter to connect a printer to my network with equal success.

I think you're right in that the SCSI to Ethernet will be faster.

If the Duo 280 is available - I'd love to make an offer!

Regards,

JMD

forgie
3rd December 2007, 04:02 PM
Hi Forgie,





Yes - worked well on an old Powerbook of mine. I also use an Ethernet to Appletalk adapter to connect a printer to my network with equal success.

I think you're right in that the SCSI to Ethernet will be faster.

If the Duo 280 is available - I'd love to make an offer!
It will be made available once I've got networking up and running so I can copy all the personal files and other junk off them. Then I'll decide what I want to keep, and offload the rest here. I'll probably offer them as a public auction.

jmd
3rd December 2007, 07:36 PM
Hi Forgie,


It will be made available once I've got networking up and running so I can copy all the personal files and other junk off them.


Depending on how you want to do that - I'm in Melbourne and probably have all the requisite networking gear around to off load the data and burn a DVD etc.

Let me know if you want any help...

JMD

forgie
3rd December 2007, 08:20 PM
Hi Forgie,

Depending on how you want to do that - I'm in Melbourne and probably have all the requisite networking gear around to off load the data and burn a DVD etc.

Let me know if you want any help...

JMD
Thanks for the offer - but I want to get my own networking gear anyway, so I may as well wait til I've got my own setup.

neoxide
3rd December 2007, 08:35 PM
I backup all my stuff (from old macs) onto Zip Disks, which is fine provided you have a PC or Mac that still uses them, which I'm guessing you don't... Sneakernet is still the way for me! I imagine you could still connect to a more recent mac through Appleshare. If you need any parts, don't hesitate to ask!

Cheers,
Andrew

forgie
5th December 2007, 06:41 PM
I've read in a few places that AFP in OS7-8 is incompatible with AFP in OSX, but they are each compatible with AFP in OS9.

Can I get FTP software for OS8? If I get networking up and running, would there be a better way than FTP to copy stuff to and from the powerbooks?

timwallG5
5th December 2007, 07:17 PM
AppleShare IP 6.2 (?) I think can let you set up a TCP/IP file server under OS 7-8; wherein you could possibly access it from a modern Mac.

There is FTP software for OS 7/8. Here it is:

http://main.system7today.com/software/netpresenz.html

There are some other utilities there too.

forgie
5th December 2007, 08:06 PM
Thanks, I'll give that a shot.

timwallG5
6th December 2007, 07:12 PM
Hope it works.

BTW still interested in the 2300c Duo. What state is it in? Any boxes/manuals/diskettes come with?

Thanks.

forgie
7th December 2007, 10:46 AM
Just so EVERYONE is clear... this is NOT a FS thread. I will make a new thread, and sell these publicly, with plenty of time, since a lot of people have expressed interest. The Duos don't come with anything other than themselves - no disks, boxes, and not even a power adapter. I happen to have a compatible power adapter that I'm using at the moment, but I need to keep that one.

forgie
31st January 2008, 12:15 AM
Ok. I'm back on the job for sorting out these powerbooks.... I have NetPresenz set up as an FTP server on one of the Duos, but I can't seem to get the TCP/IP setup right. A major hitch is that I can only see the screen when the Duo is out of the dock, but it can only have ethernet connect while it's IN the dock. So I have to configure things, shut down, stick it in the dock, try it, pull it out, configure........ etc.

The Duo I am using has MacOS8.1 on there. Does anyone know exactly how I should set up TCP/IP and AppleTalk to get this all working? If I disable AppleTalk, MacIP is no longer a valid option in TCP/IP. How else can I choose TCP/IP settings? Should I leave AppleTalk enabled?


edit: If I leave AppleTalk disabled, opening TCP/IP C.P. gives the following error:

"The control panel cannot be opened because AppleTalk is inactive and no alternate connections are available."


edit 2: OK, I think I get what's going on. TCP/IP won't let me choose Ethernet unless the Ethernet port is actually connected to the computer, and I can't do that unless it's in the Dock, in which case I can't control it or see the screen. The only workaround would be to hack the preferences file so that it starts up in the dock with the prefs set to Ethernet. What a PITA. I guess I'll keep looking for microdocks....

samwalk
31st January 2008, 12:43 AM
The suggestion of an ethernet to appletalk adaptor is still your best option. I would have thought that these would have been reasonably cheap these days. Other than that if you have another old machine which supports localtalk and has an ethernet port you can use the 'Localtalk Bridge' software. I seem to remember this software being included with a lot of Apple's network cards.

jmd
31st January 2008, 08:23 AM
If you want to use the MacIP protocol over Appletalk you need a routing machine to route from Ethernet to Appletalk (Localtalk Bridge only routes Appletalk packets - not TCP/IP packets).

I use a Quadra 950 running MacOS 8.1 with IPNetrouter (third party application form Sustworks) to do this. Works well. I've got several laptops getting MacIP over that router.

Regards,

JMD

Wally
31st January 2008, 08:50 AM
I just use an PCMCIA card reader with SD support.

Works quite well seeing how zip drives and ethernet isnt so reliable on old school macs :)

Byrd
31st January 2008, 10:32 AM
I just use an PCMCIA card reader with SD support.

Works quite well seeing how zip drives and ethernet isnt so reliable on old school macs :)

Wha-hey the SD card readers are pretty good aren't they wall (although Duo doesn't have PCMCIA!). I agree that with each release of OS X Apple makes it harder for use non-network techy types to connect older Macs to new ones.

I've also noticed pretty much 80% of my good quality floppy discs from ~ 15 years of backing up have also failed.

JB