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pipsqeek
31st March 2004, 02:38 PM
In the land of PEE CEEZ when you image a drive, such as one containing your OS. If you were to use that image on another machine, of different specs. It would not work. Sometimes even if the CPU is a different one and everything else is the same. This is why it is theoretically nice to have all your machines the same.

Wondering if the land of mac has the same thing. Would an image from my iBook work on a G4 tower of some sorts or an iMac?

What I am getting at is...if ever (pray to God, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye) I get the chance to work in a complete Mac network (Ohhh, so sweet) would I need different images for the iMac's (and the different iMac's - maybe some old and some new) and G4's or would one image that the company is happy with, which contains the required software?

Just curious. I think I know the answer but i sort of don't. Atleast I think I don't..know that is..that answer that is. I think!

Sorry
Steve

jameso
31st March 2004, 06:58 PM
no. it shouldn't, OSX doesn't install all the hardware drivers. well, 10.2 didn't, i would assume 10.3 doesn't

jameso

pipsqeek
31st March 2004, 08:13 PM
So, creating one system restore image will work on all mac machines, possibly bar the G5 due to being 64Bit.

But other than that its cool?

That makes life way more simpler.

Then you can have just different images for different departments.

Man, I wish I was working as an IT guy...anywhere.

Steve

Shawry
31st March 2004, 08:45 PM
I would think that it'd be the same as the PC situation. eMacs and iMacs and whatever else all have slightly different hardware configs so an image would need to becreated indivually for each config.

kim jong il
1st April 2004, 07:22 AM
I may be a bit confused by a response above, but just for the sake of it i will confirm some of the above, jameso and shawry are absolutely right. A common image for different (not seperate, but the same, but physically different as in an imac/tower difference) WILL end in tears. Variations on this theme are discussed reasonably often so keep an eye out.

I have a good friend who deals with macs for a living, his solution (as I understand it although I may be mistaken) is, as all machines under his expert care must meet a common clean specification on a regular basis, he has made clever use of the ipod. Different machines? No problem. 10 or 20 GB can store a few images. One for each different machine type and some application (I'll try to persuade him to post) that more or less renders the machines identical to the image. Firewire, nice and fast. All good.
It's possible that maybe i'm just easily impressed, but i think this in itself is pretty spectacular in terms of multiple networked systems maintenance.

cheers, kim

the_argon
1st April 2004, 08:43 AM
I tested this theory out last night and even though the OSX install from my G3 iMac worked flawlessly in a PM G4 (AGP) for a decent 4-5 hours doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I am with kim on this one. Something will eventually go wrong, and it will end in tears.

By all means try it out yourself though, but don't expect it work and/or be stable.

pipsqeek
1st April 2004, 08:49 AM
Judging my all the responses. Maybe it may be better to just have mulitple images for not only each different types of machines. but also the departments of a company.

I mainly wanted to find out about this for general knowledge for the future.

It would be ideal to have one image for all machines in an organisation. :D

But yes, I can understand why it would not recommended.

Steve

stevejay
1st April 2004, 12:07 PM
If netboot is OK, why not disk image clones? Or is netbooting different?

kim jong il
1st April 2004, 06:18 PM
Hi stevejay, I had a suspicion this one would bite me on the bum, the truth is, my experience of dealing with networked machines is limited to my home. I am fortunate to have a mac guru for a friend who is the one who bails me out when I have curly questions. I'm glad I qualified the statement as heresay. (pipsqueek) I have not tried swapping OS X systems between machines. So while UNIX is fairly robust and, in the example above worked happily I still deeply believe this would be a bad practice.

I doubt any of the machines I referred to really get rebooted that often. (I've only ever got OS X to crash 4 times (for pretty understandable reasons)) We are talking about a situation where these machines will be utilised by 100? plus people every week with different permission levels. He did say it was not quite as easy as pressing a magic button. I believe it is machine by machine maintenance.

cheers, kim

pipsqeek
1st April 2004, 11:19 PM
Yeah, I was just curious. I duno what gave me the idea...but i though that everything else is easier on a mac....so why should this be hard.

I did have a hunch as not all Apples have the same hardware...CD/DVD drives, Dual CPU, Single CPU, Gfx cards are different.

Thanks to all that responded

Steve

Currawong
2nd April 2004, 09:14 AM
It is quite possible to create system restore images for a computer, but the issues I've come across are mainly when 10.2 was the norm and new LCD iMacs came out - they required drivers not present in the early versions of 10.2. Other than that, if you read up on how Carbon Copy Cloner works, you'll find when it clones a system to another drive, it doesn't include caches and some other system-generated files, because some of them are related specifically to the computer OSX was installed on.

However, an OSX install is the same for all machines installed on as far as I know. It's early in the boot process that any machine-specific stuff is set up. More info about this can be found on the XpostFacto site, as it discusses how the program gets OSX onto machines that aren't designed to support it.

As a side note, I pulled the HD out of my DP450 and stuck it in a cube for a while to use with no problems. However, they have much the same hardware setup in terms of motherboard chipsets, so I knew it wouldn't be a problem.

kim jong il
2nd April 2004, 01:28 PM
I feel absolutely compelled to add at this point that i really passionately DO believe that everything IS easier on a mac. Just because I haven't done it does not mean it probably won't be as easy as just about everything else.

PC friends are still costantly amazed at how incredibly easy and trouble free it all is for me. "but you can get all these mad games for a PC". Well you can get some pretty respectable games for a mac last time i looked too (if thats what pushes your buttons). Keep three machines talking all quite happily, things just happen blah blah........ Why do people bother with these other machines.

I'd rather maintain a fleet of rolls royces than a collection of hotted up extensively modified toranas with 12 litre V8's under the bonnet.

EDIT (for the non australians: a car with a certain stereotyped reputation from the australian 70's ).

cheers, kim

Crambo
5th April 2004, 03:08 AM
I guess it's all about freedom of choice, and quite honestly, you fall in, categorically so, the same basket as the X86 machine owners by pushing the idea of a superior platform but while we're on topic of car analogies, if you want to pay homage to the all wonderful Mac' then I'd say it's closer to something like a Koenigsegg, McLaren, Pagani or Ferrari. Anyway, what's wrong with a bit of muscle? :-P

mhollis
7th April 2004, 11:46 PM
There is nothing wrong with muscle, but when it's in a Yank Tank it's just not as efficient. Yank Tanks are like boats. You don't really steer them, you just point them in a general direction and hope the highway doesn't move overmuch.

Frankly, I like the safety and security of a Macintosh. Too many people in this world don't like Americans and Microsoft. Too many people in this world don't like what we've all put together and call "Western Civilization." The next al Qaida attack may very well be headed for a Windoze pee cee near you.

kim jong il
8th April 2004, 06:10 AM
Hi Crambo. To an extent you do have a point with your comments about me, my attitude and my absolute belief in the superiority of the mac platform. And yes, you are right, there is nothing wrong with a bit of muscle either. However............

A couple of points to note. No one yet has ever been able to impress me with a PC and its ease of use. Not under 3.11, 95, 98, 2000 or XP. By contrast PC users (known to me) are constantly impressed with the ease with which I administer my macs.

As for muscle; a little story. Just recently at work, a guy, who I consider reasonably intelligent, was trying to impress me with his ridiculously overclocked AMD powered machine. "I was told it would only last about 6 months at this speed and I've got almost 12. Isn't that great? I figure i'm ahead..........."

Are these people serious? To me this is just a plain demented way of thinking. So yes muscle is great, but what's the point when it only lasts a few laps (so to speak).

cheers, kim

kim jong il
8th April 2004, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by mhollis@Apr 7 2004, 11:46 PM
Snipped for brevity

The next al Qaida attack may very well be headed for a Windoze pee cee near you.
Go mhollis.

I have visions of a crazed madman flying a cessna into my neighbors office.........

pipsqeek
9th April 2004, 10:25 PM
I was just reading some useful info from Apple in .pdf format regarding the query I had.

The document I found is called "Deploying Mac OS X for K-12 Education.pdf"

Has a great deal of info regarding network boot images and the like. It says somewhere in there that you install OS X on one machine then image it for use on all other machines. Now the interesting part is, it does not specify if the machines are different from one another, but...It does have an example diagram below the text with wireless ibooks and pb's as well as imacs, g4 towers etc.

I wish I had more than one Mac that can run OS X... I would try it myself and be done with this nagging feeling of not knowing.

Steve

mhollis
10th April 2004, 12:16 AM
There just have to be .kext (kernal extension) files that support different machines. With Apple, one size never really did fit all. I'm willing to post my entire .kext library contents here if you would like to compare. I have a G4-400 desktop (Sawtooth) with a processor upgrade that Apple doesn't support and an added-in SuperDrive. Aside from a SCSI card, a few extra hard disks, and various applications that not everyone has (Photoshop and Final Cut Pro come to mind), I'm pretty "Vanilla."

The following does not contain all of the subfolders. There is Spanish language support in my /System/Library/Extensions folder, which is a source of a lot of subfolders.


webdav_fs.kext
VirtualAudioDriver.kext
UltraTek66.kext
UltraTek33.kext
UltraTek133.kext
UltraTek100.kext
udf.kext
System.kext
SymOSXKernelUtilities.kext
symfs.kext
smbfs.kext
SharedIP.kext
Radius.ppp
PPTP.ppp
PPPSerial.ppp
PPPoE.ppp
PPP.kext
NVDAResman.kext
NVDANV30Hal.kext
NVDANV20Hal.kext
NVDANV10Hal.kext
ntfs.kext
NKEMgr.kext
msdosfs.kext
MacIOGPIO.kext
LogitechForceFeedback.kext
L2TP.ppp
KeyLargoATA.kext
iPodDriver.kext
IPFirewall.kext
IOUSBMassStorageClass.kext
IOUSBFamily.kext
IOStorageFamily.kext
IOSerialFamily.kext
IOSCSIParallelFamily.kext
IOSCSIArchitectureModelFamily.kext
IOPlatformFunction.kext
IOPCIFamily.kext
IOPCCardFamily.kext
IONetworkingFamily.kext
IONDRVSupport.kext
IOKeyLargo.kext
IOHIDFamily.kext
IOHDIXController.kext
IOGraphicsFamily.kext
IOFireWireSerialBusProtocolTransport.kext
IOFireWireSBP2.kext
IOFireWireIP.kext
IOFireWireFamily.kext
IOFireWireAVC.kext
IODVDStorageFamily.kext
IOCDStorageFamily.kext
IOBluetoothHIDDriver.kext
IOBluetoothFamily.kext
IOAudioFamily.kext
IOATAFamily.kext
IOADBFamily.kext
ImmersionForceFeedback.kext
ICAFWKodakProDriver.kext
ICAClassicNotSeizeDriver.kext
I2CGPIO.kext
HotSync Classic Seize.kext
HeathrowATA.kext
GeForceGA.plugin
GeForceFXGLDriver.bundle
GeForce3GLDriver.bundle
GeForce2MXGLDriver.bundle
GeForce.kext
EAP-RSA.ppp
DVFamily.bundle
DSAuth.ppp
DSACL.ppp
CMD646Root.kext
CMD646ATA.kext
cddafs.kext
BootCache.kext
AudioDeviceTreeUpdater.kext
ATTOExpressPCIPlus.kext
ATIRageProGA.plugin
ATIRagePro.kext
ATIRage128GLDriver.bundle
ATIRage128GA.plugin
ATIRage128DVDDriver.bundle
ATIRage128.kext
ATIRadeonGLDriver.bundle
ATIRadeonGA.plugin
ATIRadeonDVDDriver.bundle
ATIRadeon9700GLDriver.bundle
ATIRadeon9700GA.plugin
ATIRadeon9700DVDDriver.bundle
ATIRadeon9700.kext
ATIRadeon8500GLDriver.bundle
ATIRadeon8500GA.plugin
ATIRadeon8500DVDDriver.bundle
ATIRadeon8500.kext
ATIRadeon.kext
AppleVSP.kext
AppleVIA.kext
AppleUSBDisplays.kext
AppleUSBAudio.kext
AppleThermal.kext
AppleSym8xx.kext
AppleStorageDrivers.kext
AppleSPU.kext
AppleSEP.kext
AppleRTL8139Ethernet.kext
AppleRAID.kext
ApplePMU.kext
ApplePCCardATA.kext
ApplePCCard16ATA.kext
AppleOnboardDisplay.kext
AppleOnboardAudio.kext
AppleNDRV
AppleMPIC.kext
AppleMLANAudio.kext
AppleMIDIUSBDriver.plugin
AppleMIDIIACDriver.plugin
AppleMesh.kext
AppleMediaBay.kext
AppleMaxim6690.kext
AppleMacRiscPCI.kext
AppleMacRISC4PE.kext
AppleMacRISC2PE.kext
AppleLSIFusionMPT.kext
AppleLMUController.kext
AppleLM8x.kext
AppleLM87.kext
AppleLM7x.kext
AppleLED.kext
AppleKiwiRoot.kext
AppleKiwiATA.kext
AppleKeyswitch.kext
AppleKeyLargo.kext
AppleKauaiATA.kext
AppleK2SATARoot.kext
AppleK2SATA.kext
AppleK2Fan.kext
AppleK2Driver.kext
AppleK2.kext
AppleIntel8255x.kext
AppleI2S.kext
AppleI2C.kext
AppleHWSensor.kext
AppleHWClock.kext
AppleHeathrow.kext
AppleGracklePCI.kext
AppleGPIO.kext
AppleGossamerPE.kext
AppleFWAudio.kext
AppleMIDIFWDriver.plugin
AppleFPButton.kext
AppleFlashNVRAM.kext
AppleFCU.kext
AppleFan.kext
AppleDallasDriver.kext
AppleCuda.kext
AppleCPUThermo.kext
AppleCore99PE.kext
AppleCore99NVRAM.kext
AppleBlower.kext
AppleAltiVecDVDDriver.bundle
AppleAirPortFW.kext
AppleAirPort2.kext
AppleAirPort.kext
AppleADT746x.kext
AppleADM103x.kext
AppleADBMouse.kext
AppleADBKeyboard.kext
AppleADBDisplay.kext
AppleADBButtons.kext
ACard62xxM.kext
Adaptec78XXSCSI.kext
ACard67162.kext
Adaptec29160x.kext
Adaptec290X-2930.kext
ACard68xxM.kext
AppleAD741x.kext
Apple_iSight.kext
Apple16X50Serial.kext
Adaptec39160.kext
ACard6885M.kext
ACard671xSCSI.kext
Apple02Audio.kext
Localizable.strings
InfoPlist.strings
InfoPlist.strings
Localizable.strings
DSAuth
version.plist
Resources
Info.plist
PlugIns
MacOS
Spanish.lproj
NetworkConnect.icns
English.lproj
version.plist
Resources
MacOS
Info.plist
ATIRuntimeDriver.bundle
ATIDriver.bundle
version.plist
Info.plist
MacOS
Contents
version.plist
MacOS
Info.plist
PPTP
version.plist
Resources
PlugIns
Info.plist
MacOS
version.plist
MacOS
Info.plist
Localizable.strings
InfoPlist.strings
version.plist
Resources
PlugIns
MacOS
Info.plist
English.lproj
Spanish.lproj
Contents
InfoPlist.strings
Localizable.strings
Localizable.strings
InfoPlist.strings
Contents
version.plist
Resources
MacOS
Info.plist
L2TP.vpn
L2TP.kext
Contents
NetworkConnect.icns
English.lproj
Spanish.lproj
Localizable.strings
InfoPlist.strings
PPPoE
Spanish.lproj
English.lproj
version.plist
MacOS
Info.plist
InfoPlist.strings
Localizable.strings
PPTP
Contents
Contents
DSACL
Contents
English.lproj
Spanish.lproj
PPPoE.kext
PPPoE.vpn
Contents
Contents
Contents
PPTP.kext
PPTP.vpn
L2TP
InfoPlist.strings
Localizable.strings
Contents
version.plist
MacOS
Info.plist
PPPSerial
Localizable.strings
InfoPlist.strings
Localizable.strings
InfoPlist.strings
EAP-RSA
L2TP
Radius
version.plist
MacOS
Info.plist
PPPoE

Jimbo
12th April 2004, 01:18 AM
cutting right back to the chase, you can do it, but... you need to reset the operating system via the command line, i'm sorry i can't remember what it is, but you'll be able to find it on the web somewhere, it resets all your network settings and machine drivers etc, and when you boot up it takes a little longer and greets you with the registration prompt, 'swhat apple do before they ship there machines i think.

stickman67
12th April 2004, 07:48 AM
Have you thought of using a utility like Carbon Copy Cloner (http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html)?

You have to use it to install the image, as well as to create it, but from what the author's website says, it sounds like you can certainly use the image on different machines:

"Have you ever wanted to move your entire Mac OS X installation to a new computer?"

It might at least be worth a look. B)