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pipsqeek
29th March 2004, 10:24 PM
I am not sure if its leeching software or what? it feels like it somehow.

I have not been able to find a definitive information site on what it is.

I have heard of it before, on this forum or some other mac site maybe.

Steve

FreakMac
29th March 2004, 11:43 PM
It's potentially very naughty for one thing! And too much piracy will kill Macs!!! Think about it.

But it works like this........

BitTorrent is a protocol designed for transferring files. It is peer-to-peer in nature, as users connect to each other directly to send and receive portions of the file. However, there is a central server (called a tracker) which coordinates the action of all such peers. The tracker only manages connections, it does not have any knowledge of the contents of the files being distributed, and therefore a large number of users can be supported with relatively limited tracker bandwidth. The key philosophy of BitTorrent is that users should upload (transmit outbound) at the same time they are downloading (receiving inbound.) In this manner, network bandwidth is utilized as efficiently as possible. BitTorrent is designed to work better as the number of people interested in a certain file increases, in contrast to other file transfer protocols.

One analogy to describe this process might be to visualize a group of people sitting at a table. Each person at the table can both talk and listen to any other person at the table. These people are each trying to get a complete copy of a book. Person A announces that he has pages 1-10, 23, 42-50, and 75. Persons C, D, and E are each missing some of those pages that A has, and so they coordinate such that A gives them each copies of the pages he has that they are missing. Person B then announces that she has pages 11-22, 31-37, and 63-70. Persons A, D, and E tell B they would like some of her pages, so she gives them copies of the pages that she has. The process continues around the table until everyone has announced what they have (and hence what they are missing.) The people at the table coordinate to swap parts of this book until everyone has everything. There is also another person at the table, who we'll call 'S'. This person has a complete copy of the book, and so doesn't need anything sent to him. He responds with pages that no one else in the group has. At first, when everyone has just arrived, they all must talk to him to get their first set of pages. However, the people are smart enough to not all get the same pages from him. After a short while they all have most of the book amongst themselves, even if no one person has the whole thing. In this manner, this one person can share a book that he has with many other people, without having to give a full copy to everyone that's interested. He can instead give out different parts to different people, and they will be able to share it amongst themselves. This person who we've referred to as 'S' is called a seed in the terminology of BitTorrent.

cmetom
29th March 2004, 11:44 PM
it's like p2p.. and probably is just that.. but the interface is different.

a file can be found on a tracker site, and is "seeded" by one or more persons (meaning it is available). the file link on the tracker site is small, and has the info the bittorrent client uses to download the actual file.

during the download, the file is split (in the mind of the client) into different pieces. each piece is downloaded from one of the available "seeders". once you have 100% of the file, you too begin seeding it unless you tell your client to stop seeding.

pipsqeek
30th March 2004, 07:44 AM
Ah okay!

I don't usually pirate any software.

I do copy it to play it, sort of like trying it before I buy it.

If its worthy, I purchase it. I consider it my version of shareware, you like it, you pay money and get the unlocked (in this case, legitimate) version.

I Pirate for different reasons. I would hate to buy a game and not like it then try to return it, and find that because it has been opened I cannot return it.

This way is just easier.

The same goes with programs. Luckily most mac apps are try before you buy. Omnigraffle was an excellent setup. Try it for one day, if you need more time, just ask the authors for another day key. When your ready, buy it. How cool is that.

But yes, I do leech software, both PC and Mac. But I do it for different reasons than having it, distributing it.

I understand that the authors have to make thier money. If they don't they will not only be able to release newer version or even support a platform at all, but also may not release anything else in the future for either platfrom....go bankrupt.

We have to support them. For our own sake more than theirs

Steve

rockinrobstar
30th March 2004, 10:42 AM
But bitTorrent is not exclusivly for warez. Many Linux ditros are using it at the moment to distribute new versions and even companies like Blizzard have used it to distribute the beta of their new game "World of Warcraft".

decryption
30th March 2004, 12:57 PM
Exactly rockinrobstar... BitTorrent isn't a piracy distrobution method :P
That's like sayign FTP is for warez because FTP servers have warez on them..
BitTorrent is a great way to distribute files without needing massiev bandwith. I've downloaded the past two releases of Fedora Linux via BitTorrent and prefer it to HTTP/FTP downloads, as it's just as fast, and can be resumed easily and reliably.
Hopefully BitTorrent's name doesn't get slurred too much, beacuse it has potential to be very useful when we all run out of bandwith :P

FreakMac
30th March 2004, 08:12 PM
Good points, but lets face it 9/10 people who use it, use it to obtain movies/music/software that they are too stingy or scabby to buy......I mean I read in here that BF 1942 or whatever is finally now out for Mac and I'll bet it's going sick on the bit-torrent.....say for eg thev've sold 1000 copies but 100000 people have it!! I dont play many games!! what developer will spend more money and time bringing out new versions........imagine if adobe or quark pulled the pin on their mac publishing apps bcuz of rampant piracy on P2P networks/file sharing etc..I just want to say to the minority who do it and love Macs...thinks very long and hard b4 you download...
Kane

pipsqeek
30th March 2004, 08:28 PM
So true!

I hope pirates one day realise they are hurting not only the authors, but legitimate users as well as themselves (if they think about anyone or thing, atleast themselves) that if people stop buying or the profits are reduced from a game or app, one day there will be no applications or games, not only for them to leech, but for anyone to buy as well.

I am sort of happy and not so happy I brought up the subject. I am, as previously mentioned, one of those people that leech but mainly to try out that game or app before I spend money on it. If I hate it, I delete it, if I like it, I find it and buy it.

I have PC mates that do nothing but leech. When I ask them about this, they just say that there are plenty of stupid people out there that buy it, they make it possible for me too leech. Yet one of my mates, as much as he leeches (and believe me, he has a honey pot) still purchases the relevant software, beit game or app because its worth not only the money, but it comes with not just the app, but the documentation, legit serials, support, as well as the good karma. And peice of mind in knowing that you are one of the few that can play a LAN game without worrying about compatibilty or mucking around with shit to get it to work.

Alot of games now (I know of BF) unless are legit, will not allow you to join a LAN or Net game. but you can still create one and have people join you. Still, makes so many LANers lives difficult when they are noobies and can't figure out why the game cannot find the game server.

I just message them a note, "Buy retail copy - fixes the problems associated with leeching"

Steve

jameso
31st March 2004, 06:39 PM
hey. BT is a nice legitimate way to distribute data in high demand, also combined with RSS it is a GoodWay™ for collaborating groups to have data automatically distributed when it become available.

jameso

the_argon
2nd April 2004, 11:10 PM
Does anyone know of any good mac orientated trackers? I haven't been able to find any yet.

elvis
3rd April 2004, 09:22 AM
While on the subject of BitTorret, my favuorite client is Azureus:

http://azureus.sourceforge.net/

Java based and available on any platform. Excellent interface and great control over your torrent uploads, downloads, and seeding. It's got really cool featrues like being able to automatically move finished torrents toa new folder, which is heaven when you've got 30 of them going simultaneously.

Torrent technology is fantastic. Unlink Kazaa, eDonkey and all that rubbish, you can upload small parts of a file. This means that you don't need the entire file to share with others. Also, you are FORCED to upload in order to download! This is wonderful, as it stops the leaching problem associated with other P2P solutions.

And finally, the more people using the service, the faster it is! No scalability issues there! Instead of waiting weeks for software after a new realease, and having all your favourite mirrors getting hammered (see my GIMP thread) the more people who download a file, the more it is available to everyone else.

Very smart thinking.

rockinrobstar
3rd April 2004, 02:33 PM
BitTorrent is great for downloading things legit and illegit, but its biggest downfall is that the is no simple way to find torrents (other than on web trackers). Does anyone know of any system where by you can "search" for torrents, much like other p2p technologies ?

Jimbo
3rd April 2004, 02:57 PM
yeah elvis but the amount of time the original seeder only seeded like 99.9% is high and you don't know till you've downloaded 99.9% of windows 2... i mean that free linux distro...

elvis
4th April 2004, 07:37 PM
Why on earth would you want to download anything associated with Windows? :P

pipsqeek
5th April 2004, 07:54 AM
I don't think I ever have downloaded a thing for Windoesn't.

No wait...Windoesn't XP hahaha.

Its the only machine in my house that is not on the network. Its a glorified XBOX and used for storage when storage it short. Ona different partition mind you. XP has its own HDD. Wouldn't want to temp fate and store my files on the same physical HDD as the PS..sorry OS (PS = Poo System)

Steve

Crambo
5th April 2004, 01:18 PM
Tomato Torrent is a great client if anyone is looking, http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/22891 :)