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mjankor
27th October 2007, 01:03 PM
I was hoping for a lot more from Stacks. I've had a think about it and this is what I've come up with.

The main problem with stacks is that it gives us nothing more than a proxy to a folder view. This is no different to what was available in Tiger. The only differences between Stacks and placing folders in the dock in Tiger are that:


We now get a shiny proxy of a folder view rather than a real folder view
We lose heirarchic right click folder lists
We get to see the top most icon in the dock

As you can see there's no significant benefits to the Stacks and one significant loss (hierarchic folder listings).

What I was hoping for was the retention in Leopard of the current Tiger feature, that of browsing folders dropped into the dock, as well as Stacks. I was also hoping Stacks would:


Be created from folders or documents dragged to the dock. If you dragged 5 documents to the dock they would form a stack.
Be able to stack files from many places, not just one folder.
Be able to add new documents to a stack.

What would be cool would be to use the Stacks feature to tie a list of otherwise separate documents together for short term use. If I want to work on a handle of documents for a project I would just drop them in my current project stack to have immediate access to them, irrespective of where they are on the hard drive.

Stacks have to augment and work alongside folders, not replace them. Currently Stacks are Leopards Flip 3D feature. Pretty to look at but a waste of space. However at least Apple can improve on them. I just hope they do.

Discuss.

Linux_insidev2
27th October 2007, 01:28 PM
In early dev releases, you used to be able to just stack documents up without needing a folder, when they removed this i was pised!

rtc
27th October 2007, 01:34 PM
hierarchical menu view should be able to be enabled or disabled via a setting.

if not, then leopard i'm sorry to say is behine windows 98 in this area .

Paxton
27th October 2007, 01:48 PM
hierarchical menu view should be able to be enabled or disabled via a setting.

if not, then leopard i'm sorry to say is behine windows 98 in this area .

I won't be upgrading until hacks are found for three things.

1) The Aforementioned 'Piles' issue
2) The Dock looks like a Dock, not a 'Stage'
3) We get an opaque Menu Bar.

Me thinks I won't have long to wait until these are found, as they are the most contentious of the new features in Leopard. I'm happy to wait on Tiger until a fix is found. Then all I have to do is work out how to make the UI less dark...

queraxus
27th October 2007, 01:53 PM
I won't be upgrading until hacks are found for three things.

1) The Aforementioned 'Piles' issue
2) The Dock looks like a Dock, not a 'Stage'
3) We get an opaque Menu Bar.

Me thinks I won't have long to wait until these are found, as they are the most contentious of the new features in Leopard. I'm happy to wait on Tiger until a fix is found. Then all I have to do is work out how to make the UI less dark...

Point 2 is easily fixed with a single terminal command. Point 3 is ridiculous. Is your productivity going to be so adversely affected because the menu bar is partially transulcent?

alexc
27th October 2007, 01:58 PM
3) We get an opaque Menu Bar.

One workaround is to set a 20px border on the top of your desktop image.

I've set mine to have a black 20px high bar at the top of my desktop image. Works a treat :)

Frackin stoopid though that you cant just turn off the transparency. Such is Apple's way I guess.

bartron
27th October 2007, 02:06 PM
One workaround is to set a 20px border on the top of your desktop image.

I've set mine to have a black 20px high bar at the top of my desktop image. Works a treat :)

Frackin stoopid though that you cant just turn off the transparency. Such is Apple's way I guess.

what works better black bar or white bar?

I'm not picking up leopard until next week so can't try until then.

dev_enter
27th October 2007, 02:08 PM
Depends on whether you want a lighter looking bar or a darker looking bar. ;)

Thank christ for the Dock option, the 2D look is much better.

Paxton
27th October 2007, 02:15 PM
Point 2 is easily fixed with a single terminal command. Point 3 is ridiculous. Is your productivity going to be so adversely affected because the menu bar is partially transulcent?

My Eyesight frankly sucks. I need to have a light background behind dark text, otherwise I can't see a fuckin' thing.

Looks like a white bar @20 px for me it is.

mjankor
28th October 2007, 05:44 PM
So, does anyone like stacks?

stefanlod
28th October 2007, 05:47 PM
I find them pretty useful, I WANT QUICKLOOK ON STACKS!

Saru
28th October 2007, 09:38 PM
What would be cool would be to use the Stacks feature to tie a list of otherwise separate documents together for short term use. If I want to work on a handle of documents for a project I would just drop them in my current project stack to have immediate access to them, irrespective of where they are on the hard drive.

Now that would be awesome.

If stacks are just a different way to view what's in a folder, then what's the point?

kyte
28th October 2007, 09:44 PM
So what *is* the terminal command for a 2D dock?

forgie
28th October 2007, 09:51 PM
I haven't used Stacks yet, but you guys sure know how to paint a bleak and negative picture.

Currently, I don't place folders in the dock. I don't see the point. It doesn't give me anything that I can't get in other ways, with less hassle. Stacks, however, looks like a much better way to access certain files from certain folders. I don't want a list view when I look through a list in the Dock, I want visualisation - and that's what Stacks gives you.

There's all sorts of things that would make Stacks uber-useful, but they may require some crafty use of smart-folders or 3rd party hacks or something. Can you make stacks of smart-folders?

I've read that you can do the "old" folders in the dock thing by adding an alias on there. Is this the case? Can someone check?

Johnny Appleseed
28th October 2007, 10:07 PM
Frackin stoopid though that you cant just turn off the transparency. Such is Apple's way I guess.

I coulda sworn it was optional in previous builds ...

mjankor
28th October 2007, 10:13 PM
I haven't used Stacks yet, but you guys sure know how to paint a bleak and negative picture.

Currently, I don't place folders in the dock. I don't see the point. It doesn't give me anything that I can't get in other ways, with less hassle. Stacks, however, looks like a much better way to access certain files from certain folders. I don't want a list view when I look through a list in the Dock, I want visualisation - and that's what Stacks gives you.

There's all sorts of things that would make Stacks uber-useful, but they may require some crafty use of smart-folders or 3rd party hacks or something. Can you make stacks of smart-folders?

I've read that you can do the "old" folders in the dock thing by adding an alias on there. Is this the case? Can someone check?

An alias will give you a new window, but it won't give you heirarchic menus.

forgie
28th October 2007, 10:36 PM
What do you guys use hierarchical menus in the Dock for anyway? I tried putting my applications folder in there a few months back, but it takes several seconds for the list to populate when you first click on it, making it pointless as a "time saver".

mjankor
28th October 2007, 10:50 PM
I use it to access a server, which has all our office admin, projects folders, etc It's a big wide slab of folders and the heirarchic menu is miles faster than anything else for that sort of access.

I'll often be working on several projects at once too so the ability to get to any project with 2 clicks is pretty important to me.

The Fluffy Duck
28th October 2007, 10:58 PM
It has to be a folder of stuff you cant select certian items and drag them to stacks

forgie
28th October 2007, 11:00 PM
I use it to access a server, which has all our office admin, projects folders, etc It's a big wide slab of folders and the heirarchic menu is miles faster than anything else for that sort of access.

I'll often be working on several projects at once too so the ability to get to any project with 2 clicks is pretty important to me.
And that works smoothly over a network? Does it take a few seconds to pop up when you right-click on the folder?

I can see why you'd want hierarchical views for something like that.

Johnny Appleseed
28th October 2007, 11:17 PM
Bummer that the hierarchical folder view is gone. Even though I haven't used it for years, it was nice to know it was there!

I envisage compiling a folder of aliases of often-used applications (but not often enough to go in the main part of the Dock) and dropping it in as a Stack. How many icons does grid view support...?

grfxninja
28th October 2007, 11:23 PM
How many icons does grid view support...?

Looks to be about 80 on my MBP (I just dropped my whole Applications folder on there and it handled it beautifully with no lag or anything)

mjankor
28th October 2007, 11:31 PM
And that works smoothly over a network? Does it take a few seconds to pop up when you right-click on the folder?

I can see why you'd want hierarchical views for something like that.

Well what was really nice was that once you had access to the server and keychained the password you didn't even have to be connected to the server to use it. It would go and make the connection for you. It doubled as a quick server shortcut as well. Once the server was connected it was about as fast as accessing anything on the hard drive. Ahhh those were the days :D

thorevenge
28th October 2007, 11:34 PM
Looks to be about 80 on my MBP (I just dropped my whole Applications folder on there and it handled it beautifully with no lag or anything)

I've got 93 in my Apps folder and the grid displayed them all.

I don't know what the limit is though.

Johnny Appleseed
29th October 2007, 06:42 AM
Incidentally guys, if you have folders within your Apps folder, does it just open the folder if you select it?

I presume so, which is probably why I'd make a separate folder of aliases (plus I have well over 200 items in my Apps folder!)

stevekicks
29th October 2007, 06:58 AM
So what *is* the terminal command for a 2D dock?
defaults write com.apple.dock no-glass -boolean YES; killall Dock

mjankor
29th October 2007, 08:24 AM
Incidentally guys, if you have folders within your Apps folder, does it just open the folder if you select it?

I presume so, which is probably why I'd make a separate folder of aliases (plus I have well over 200 items in my Apps folder!)

Yeah, that's correct.

morn
29th October 2007, 08:32 AM
Stacks violates spatiality by showing you a view of folders that is different to the finder view settings for that folder. Messing around with the familiar look of a folder.
Further more it only shows 75 items, which is pretty low and mean it weak as an app launcher, not showing all my apps.

Quasar
29th October 2007, 08:47 AM
My Eyesight frankly sucks. I need to have a light background behind dark text, otherwise I can't see a fuckin' thing.


They should have allowed the user to set the opaqueness level.

iTrooper
29th October 2007, 08:49 AM
defaults write com.apple.dock no-glass -boolean YES; killall Dock

and what if you want to change your mind and restore it back to the stage dock?

coljac
29th October 2007, 08:53 AM
The stacks aren't quite what I expected either. I'd love it if the stack could show me the top n files from the folder. That way downloads or the scratch directory would be much easier to work with.

iTrooper
29th October 2007, 09:09 AM
Well I guess it won't be long before 10.5.1 comes out, although who knows what they'll fix with that update.

Would be cool if they can refine stacks a bit.

forgie
29th October 2007, 10:20 AM
The stacks aren't quite what I expected either. I'd love it if the stack could show me the top n files from the folder. That way downloads or the scratch directory would be much easier to work with.
I'd be surprised if that sort of functionality wasn't added...

morn
29th October 2007, 10:25 AM
There is a sort by feature.
Sort by date added. ;)

iTrooper
1st November 2007, 01:19 PM
I guess people who haven't used a Mac before will find it pretty neat and cool and all that, but advanced users are just going to hate it until they offer us more control over how to use stacks.

marc
2nd November 2007, 11:11 AM
Seems like using an alias to a folder will make it behave like the 10.4 Dock.

That should keep some people happy.

silverdreamer
2nd November 2007, 11:19 AM
So, does anyone like stacks?

yes:) I also like the new dock and the new menu bar. :cool:

~Coxy
2nd November 2007, 12:23 PM
and what if you want to change your mind and restore it back to the stage dock?


Change YES to NO and run it again.

forgie
2nd November 2007, 12:37 PM
Seems like using an alias to a folder will make it behave like the 10.4 Dock.

That should keep some people happy.

An alias will give you a new window, but it won't give you heirarchic menus.
So did mjankor not actually not try what I said, or did marc not realise that the issue is a lack of hierarchical navigation? :confused:

rtc
7th November 2007, 08:06 PM
I think Stacks is awesome and leaves nothing wanting.

Controversial, I know. But here's why.

Stacks, to me, replaces "pop up windows" in OS8. It does NOT intend to replace heirarchical drill-down menu navigation of volumes or folders. That feature has been missing since pre OSX (on the apple install without third party items anyway). And, it belongs in the APPLE MENU not in the dock. The folder-in-dock-and-right-click-it to me was a lame workaround and less than sufficient, therefore i never used it. If you want a startmenu-like security blanket, go buy a copy of windows.

If you want to be able to browse through a volume heirarchically, then like me, wish as hard as you can that you will be able to do it with the apple menu again in 10.6 (instead of trying to use stacks or the dock to achieve this).

If you want today's answer to popup window tabs, stacks fits the bill!

Dante Kyar
7th November 2007, 08:11 PM
i personally like stacks. I had my files download to a folder in my documents called downloads with an alias in the dock. This was in tiger.

Stacks basically does this for me, but now i often dont even need to open the folder at all, just click and drag what i want. ie. backgrounds, i click and drag them into my background event in iphoto 08.

Lutze
7th November 2007, 08:33 PM
Got to say I love the implimentation of Stacks. Sure there are a few things that can be improved - but that's what time should do.

I have my download folder in a stack and it's just perfect being able to find one item quickly and click / open Macpar and just let it run. I guess that I'm a neatness freak, having my desktop so clear is much more restfull.