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W9cae
8th September 2007, 12:29 PM
I as others have been looking about for a hack to arrive for coverflow on the older video ipod. So far from my search not much has been found.

But today I thought I would look about my system to see what ipod updates are avail. Since the move to reset & update your ipod has been moved to itunes files are not as easy to find for the ipod.

Well under library there is a file itunes & in here you will find the folder that contains the ipod firmware. Now seeing as I dont have a new ipod. All that has been downloaded is the old firmware.

My thinking is if one can get a copy of the new classic firmware & manually load it onto the old video. New functionality will be there.

I am also unsure what one might use to open the firmware package to look at what it contains ? Pacifist possibly ?

But I think it is do able like frontrow was for ppc. Thus the reason why Apple moved the ipod updates to slow this hack from arriving. Reading from posts about the tear down of the new classic all the change seems to be is a newer hard drive.

mvjs
8th September 2007, 12:35 PM
I highly doubt you'll simply be able to run the new firmware on the 5th Gen iPod.

W9cae
8th September 2007, 12:52 PM
I have faith my friend. Just will take a bit of time, with the past changes there was not much to motivate anyone to figure this out. But now coverflow has arrived.

I just took a look around the itunes 7.4 install package. No place could I locate ipod firmware. So obviously when itunes knows your ipod model it gets the latest software avail. But does not download for all model ipods.

Linux_insidev2
8th September 2007, 04:14 PM
If they have the same hardware etc it's very possible

there is a hidden partition on every ipod containing the firmware, if you had a mate with an iPod classic you could use dd to move it from one ipod to the other.

W9cae
8th September 2007, 04:33 PM
Well by what I read the hardware has not really changed. But the iPod games avail in iTunes will only work on old iPod. Guess in time we will see if a copy of the firmware into old video iPod is all one needs to do.

Tiprya
8th September 2007, 04:36 PM
I wonder if this will come to fruition

I just got a new classic and the interface is updated in almost every aspect, would be good if 5th gen owners could get it

grorr76
8th September 2007, 04:48 PM
I wonder if this will come to fruition

I just got a new classic and the interface is updated in almost every aspect, would be good if 5th gen owners could get it

why? then no one would buy new ipods. apple has no reason to allow the new os on 5th gen ipods.

W9cae
8th September 2007, 04:49 PM
Well how techy are you ? Could you look in the library folder & send me the the updated firmware for the new classic.

Tiprya
8th September 2007, 04:57 PM
why? then no one would buy new ipods. apple has no reason to allow the new os on 5th gen ipods.

It will obviously be a hack - people will buy the new ones because you can't get the old ones anymore and they are significantly cheaper and slimmer for the same capacity

I don't think apple is expecting to sell a lot of Classics to 5th Gen owners

Tiprya
8th September 2007, 04:58 PM
Well how techy are you ? Could you look in the library folder & send me the the updated firmware for the new classic.

I sure could if you tell me how to find it / what i'm looking for ;)

(In other words, not hugly techie)

W9cae
8th September 2007, 05:02 PM
I personally think Apple do this on purpose, to keep folks busy making a new hack. It keeps product intrest up.

The new iMovie shouldnt work on the G4 mini. But by the friday of release folks had it working.

FrontRow & PhotoBooth are other examples that work just fine on G4 mini.

Linux_insidev2
8th September 2007, 05:10 PM
Well how techy are you ? Could you look in the library folder & send me the the updated firmware for the new classic.

The firmware installer won't work for you, it checks the ipod model before flashing.

what you need is for someone to DD the first partition of their iPod classic and then you dd it into yours.

W9cae
8th September 2007, 05:16 PM
I am thinking possible if someone send the firmware that iTunes has then use an OS X file manager that shows hidden files. We should be able to see all the files on an OS X formated iPod.

W9cae
8th September 2007, 05:32 PM
Another trick recently learned from another hacker after an issue with FrontRow hack was to rename a file & it tricks OS X & allows install. So maybe this will be a way to make iTunes upgrade the old model to a classic

Linux_insidev2
8th September 2007, 05:45 PM
I am thinking possible if someone send the firmware that iTunes has then use an OS X file manager that shows hidden files. We should be able to see all the files on an OS X formated iPod.

The firmware on the iPod is stored on a seperate partition and does not work like computers do, there is no file structure - it's one giant binary.

For more information, ipodlinux guys have been working on iPods for ages - http://www.ipodlinux.org

The only way to get the firmware across is with DD and an iPod Classic, or modifying the firmware update to accept the Gestalt ID of the iPod Video as an iPod Classic.

W9cae
8th September 2007, 06:52 PM
Well sadly today I have to stop my effort due to other plans. But I would welcom others info on how this might get done.

NORMANDY
8th September 2007, 07:02 PM
Well sadly today I have to stop my effort due to other plans. But I would welcome others info on how this might get done.

I hate to be the bringer of bad news,but reading some Japanese sites that have pulled the hardware apart in the new Nano and classic, there is NO way Cover Flow is going to happen on a 5th Gen (not officially from apple anyway), as the firmware EPROM is now over double the size than previously, 1MB now.. the old one was 384k. So there is now NO way to get the new firm ware to run the firmware of the current model on the older model due to firmware size differences, in addition the voltages running are lower, and there are different chip sets running in classic ipods now... so basically the entire hardware is very different in the 6th Gen classics... from the 5th Gen video ipods. The only way I see coverflow running on 5th gen is run linux on it.. and run all the ipod apps that allow all sorts of hacks.. other wise its now frozen in tim (firmware wise).

That aside its not in Apple's interests for the 5th Gen ipods to look and perform the same as the 6th Gen ones.

Linux_insidev2
8th September 2007, 08:04 PM
I hate to be the bringer of bad news,but reading some Japanese sites that have pulled the hardware apart in the new Nano and classic, there is NO way Cover Flow is going to happen on a 5th Gen (not officially from apple anyway), as the firmware EPROM is now over double the size than previously, 1MB now.. the old one was 384k. So there is now NO way to get the new firm ware to run the firmware of the current model on the older model due to firmware size differences, in addition the voltages running are lower, and there are different chip sets running in classic ipods now... so basically the entire hardware is very different in the 6th Gen classics... from the 5th Gen video ipods. The only way I see coverflow running on 5th gen is run linux on it.. and run all the ipod apps that allow all sorts of hacks.. other wise its now frozen in tim (firmware wise).

That aside its not in Apple's interests for the 5th Gen ipods to look and perform the same as the 6th Gen ones.
All previous generation iPods stored their apple firmwares on the HDD with a pre-boot environment onboard to allow diskmode for recovery etc.

I see no reason why they would change this now, the flash must be used for something different.

dolbinau
8th September 2007, 09:14 PM
I'm not sure if this is relevant but post 5.5G Apple apparently have used 'encypted firmware' (whatever that means)..and as such they haven't even been able to get some kind of iPodLinux working on them (So iPods since september 12th 2006)

Linux_insidev2
8th September 2007, 09:18 PM
I'm not sure if this is relevant but post 5.5G Apple apparently have used 'encypted firmware' (whatever that means)..and as such they haven't even been able to get some kind of iPodLinux working on them (So iPods since september 12th 2006)



They have gotten it working on 5.5G's now! :P http://ipodlinux.org/5.5g

dolbinau
8th September 2007, 09:23 PM
Maybe It is just like the first 5G (I misread)...At least look here:

http://ipodlinux.org/Project_Status

Regarding 'encrypted firmware'; is this what he was talking about? I don't know what it means at all :P.

W9cae
9th September 2007, 01:07 AM
Ok I sorta understand what you are all saying. I tried a few tricks with the firmware update file for a the new classic. I moded the hex file etc. I was unable to trick iTunes into installing. But I did notice iTunes needs to be online to load the firmware. So this makes me wonder if this firmware file I have located is just a plug to point in a direction at Apple for the correct OS.

Now looking at the iPod file system using Xfolders I see this mini OS X structure.

So maybe replacing the OS on the old video with one from the classic. Would prove if the new Os will work on the old hardware.

Then basically we need to figure out what file makes coverflow work.

But I do think, updating the iPod OS will always be an issue. As it will register as an 5 or 5.5 video.

I look at this as learning experience. If it works out great if it don't. Better luck next time.

Sadly I don't have a new classic to get a copy of the file system. Maybe someone who reads this will be able to assist ?

Linux_insidev2
9th September 2007, 05:13 AM
Maybe It is just like the first 5G (I misread)...At least look here:

http://ipodlinux.org/Project_Status

Regarding 'encrypted firmware'; is this what he was talking about? I don't know what it means at all :P.

Yeah the 6th gen (iPod Classic) apparently has encrypted firmware according to that link.

aafuss
9th September 2007, 12:50 PM
Probably uses a different graphics and CPU chip.

forgie
9th September 2007, 12:58 PM
What you really need is a teardown of the hardware to know how compatible it is. Without that you may be completely wasting your time.

And as Linux_insidev2 alluded to - often hardware specs (like ROM size) will go up in a chip for many reasons (including the fact that it becomes cheaper to add more as time goes on), but the customers (Apple) will have no use for more. They may still only be using ~300K of that ROM, for a boot loader, with the rest being padding.

What processor is in the 6G? How about the 5/5.5G?

W9cae
9th September 2007, 01:11 PM
Well at the moment I am on standstill. Not having a classic ipod in hand I dont have access to its os. Maybe some who has one & is techy enough to provide a copy of the os will come forth ?

So far hunts about the net have not provided much effort or interest except a few users thinking it would be cool to have coverflow.

I have to admit even myself my original video does all that I need it to do. And a classic just would only add more bling bling.

W9cae
9th September 2007, 01:15 PM
I do agree the graphics processor must have changed on the classic. As the AV kit from the old model will not work on the new & visa versa.

Just that statement alone maybe reason why this is a crazy idea.

Also the games that work on old video will not work on any of the new models.