PDA

View Full Version : Black & White printing on Epson R800



soulman
7th February 2005, 02:57 PM
I've just bought this printer, mainly for B&W, and am getting a strong blue/green cast on my prints using Epson's Archival Matte paper. The few colour prints I've made are quite reasonable. I've been through all the print settings and can't see any way of adjusting the cast with B&W though. I'm printing out of iPhoto 5. I do have PS7, though I'm not too familiar with it.

I've just spoken to the guy I get my paper from & he is suggesting that the only way I'll ever get anywhere near a neutral print is with a custom profile for the printer. Does anyone have any opinions on this - generally or in particular with regard to profiles.

Thanks & cheers!

bernie234
9th February 2005, 10:11 PM
The best prints are done with Photoshop but you will have to set up your printer print through print with preview change settings to adobe 1998 profile to epson matt in color management use no color ajustment

hope this helps

ps you will have to set this for each print

kim jong il
9th February 2005, 11:38 PM
I have a different epson printer (stylus 900) and have noticed some funny things when printing B&W too (colour artifacts; red). The only thing I can suggest is that when you select 'print', in the 'print settings' option you can also select ink type; colour OR black. Once black is selected your colour artifact/cast issues are over. Bear in mind however that your images will have to be changed to 256 greyscales to reproduce your image faithfully (did for me anyway).

Hope this is of some help.

cheers, kim

EDIT: I just realised. iPhoto. iPhoto for some reason displays VERY limited print settings. A way around this is to use something like graphic converter (shareware) and create some printing presets. (Within Graphic Converter, ALL options are available. 'Preview' is another option for this) These preset will be available in iPhoto, they just can't be created there.

soulman
10th February 2005, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by kim jong il@Feb 9 2005, 11:38 PM
...The only thing I can suggest is that when you select 'print', in the 'print settings' option you can also select ink type; colour OR black. Once black is selected your colour artifact/cast issues are over. Bear in mind however that your images will have to be changed to 256 greyscales to reproduce your image faithfully...
Well, this is exactly what I'm doing and how I'm ending up with the colour cast.

I've been researching things since I posted and some people seem to be suggesting that printing in colour and adjusting the cast out is the go. Have you had any experience with custom printer profiles?

Also, re iPhoto, it has an "Advanced Options" button in the print dialog which gives access to all the same settings I can get in GC - unless I missed something in GC when I just checked it.

Thanks for the reply & PM in any case. I may still be missing something, so I'll try to give you a ring this afternoon.


Originally posted by bernie234@Feb 9 2005, 10:11 PM
The best prints are done with Photoshop but you will have to set up your printer print through print with preview change settings to adobe 1998 profile to epson matt in color management use no color ajustment
Just tried this - colour cast is the same both ways. Thanks anyway.

Cheers guys!

kim jong il
10th February 2005, 04:29 PM
Just to clear up a minor point and to make sure we are talking about the same thing. The attached image shows my print settings (in this case within graphic converter) for B&W images. If black is the ink selected it should not be physically able to print with the blue cast that you are finding problematic; i.e. with black selected, colour is disabled and you should not be able to get the blue cast in your printed images.
Out of interest I was able to duplicate the trouble you are having and when I printed my sample image with colour ink selected it printed the page as you described (with a bluish cast). Within Graphic Converter (and probably Photoshop as well) you also have the option of white correction whereby you click on a part of the picture that should be white and it replaces WITH white.

If you want I can show you more screen shots to demonstrate certain points.

cheers, kim

EDIT: Sorry. My mistake regarding print preferences from iPhoto. I don't use it much and had not explored the preference pane fully although I thought I had. (each application seems to have a slightly different preference dialogue box and I was looking in the wrong spot)

soulman
10th February 2005, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by kim jong il@Feb 10 2005, 04:29 PM
...If black is the ink selected it should not be physically able to print with the blue cast that you are finding problematic; i.e. with black selected, colour is disabled and you should not be able to get the blue cast in your printed images...
OK. My print settings on the R800 are different - check the screenshot. I'm printing as black & white as I can - I think - but I don't actually get the option to specify black ink. Based on ink usage, I think it's only using black for these pix but I can't be absolutely sure as I've printed a few colour shots as well. It's different to my old printer though - a Canon i550 - which definitely uses colour inks for B&W, no matter what you tell it to do.


...Within Graphic Converter (and probably Photoshop as well) you also have the option of white correction whereby you click on a part of the picture that should be white and it replaces WITH white...
I've made the images greyscale in PS (which I'm using for image manipulation - iPhoto's for viewing & organising and I have been using it for printing) - so the whites are white. It's more certain greys that have the cast.

I am being fussy here too - I used to do B&W fine art pictures the old fashioned way years ago and so what I'm talking about is not extreme. I showed them to a graphic artist mate tonight and he picked the cast but said it was not screamingly obvious. I'm just trying for the best I can get because I'm exhibiting (and hoping to sell) these pictures next month and want them as good as I can get them.

kim jong il
11th February 2005, 09:44 AM
Sorry, I do believe that, although with the best of intentions, I have wasted your time. You cannot select black with your R800 because it has two black cartridges (matte and photo) Yes I read up on the printer-that'll teach me. The upshot of this seems that a colour cast is not unusual with these printers when printing B&W but you can takes steps to avoid this. It will just take a bit of time. Here are the links: R800 printing insights (http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi029/Epson_R800.html). Same site, different printer, SAME inks, similar issues (http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi016/Epson2200.html) and finallyan interactive review (14 pages) (http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Epson%20R800/page_1.htm) that deals with B&W printing on page 6

EDIT: these articles deal, primarily, with PC's and although dialogue boxes shown relate to windows the THEORY should be the same and the same steps used to eliminate the colour cast issues will work on your mac.

You have the consolation of knowing, at least, that your printer is HIGHLY reccommended for its superior printing quality and print longevity.

cheers, kim

PS I found it a bit of a hoot that when I googled this issue one of the links above was just above a link to this thread. Means I really better get it right this time

soulman
11th February 2005, 12:26 PM
Sorry, I do believe that, although with the best of intentions, I have wasted your time...
Not at all - I appreciate your comments & info. I had seen one of those links in my searching but the others were new and it all helps. :)


You have the consolation of knowing, at least, that your printer is HIGHLY reccommended for its superior printing quality and print longevity.
The reviews I'd seen led me to this also - its colour prints are really beautiful and I'm hoping they'll last a while. Just got my proper paper too - Hahnemühle Photo Rag - which seems to be the business.


PS I found it a bit of a hoot that when I googled this issue one of the links above was just above a link to this thread. Means I really better get it right this time.
Guess I'd better report my results when I've resolved it then...

Thanks again!

billybob
11th February 2005, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by soulman@Feb 10 2005, 12:17 PM
Well, this is exactly what I'm doing and how I'm ending up with the colour cast.

I've been researching things since I posted and some people seem to be suggesting that printing in colour and adjusting the cast out is the go. Have you had any experience with custom printer profiles?

Also, re iPhoto, it has an "Advanced Options" button in the print dialog which gives access to all the same settings I can get in GC - unless I missed something in GC when I just checked it.

Thanks for the reply & PM in any case. I may still be missing something, so I'll try to give you a ring this afternoon.


Just tried this - colour cast is the same both ways. Thanks anyway.

Cheers guys!
Just ring these guys and ask them about there quadtone printing services,
http://digital-lucida.com.au/services/printing.html

They are masters at what they do and you shouldn't worry about spending a few bucks in order to get diplay quaity prints, especially if you are putting them up for sale. They do quadtone printing where they replace all the inks with shades of grey so that the quality is always great and always neutral.

The only inexpensive way to get dead set nuetral prints out of an inkjet printer is to use black only printing. The cons of that is a greatly reduced tonal range as you are using only black to reproduce a large tonal range. This equates to bigger dot size on your print.

Other options are for you to get a custom printer profile made, or to buy an expensive rip like ImagePrint. Both options are not cheap and present further probs.

soulman
16th February 2005, 02:45 PM
Whilst I don't doubt that these folks are good at what they do, I'm not looking for a printing service. :) I'm a long way from Melbourne and I'm fussy about my prints.

I'm getting a printer profile made for $70 which seems OK under the circumstances. The guy who's doing it is Image Science (http://www.imagescience.com.au/index.php).

I'll have to wait & see what it's like of course but it's worth trying at this price. If that's no good I might have to go for some custom grey inksets but I'm hoping it will do the job.

Thanks for the info in any case. I'll report my results here when I've got the profile.

bernie234
16th February 2005, 04:07 PM
You could also try as per your screen pix......leave the settings as they are and go up to print settings and open it chose "color managment" and click on "no colour adjustment" then print.

hope this helps........if not try the Epson web site for support via E-mail

kim jong il
16th February 2005, 04:09 PM
For what you are trying to achieve, paying for a custom solution seems a good way to go. I did a couple of quick mental calculations about the cost of the paper and cartridges you use and you really wouldn't want to stuff up heaps of them. It could get really expensive, really fast.

Glad you are getting it sorted out.

cheers

soulman
23rd February 2005, 07:43 PM
Well, I'm getting reasonably neutral tones now - slightly warm, which suits me fine - but the saga is not yet over...

I got 90% of the tone I was after by simply selecting "Colour" instead of "Grayscale" in the Print Settings section of the Print dialogue. The rest came with the custom profile.

As soon as I had this sorted out, I started getting vertical banding on my prints but, get this, only on the premium paper I got the profile made for! This has been quite frustrating to troubleshoot. I've done the head clean and alignment thing - using much ink in the process - which has improeved the situation, though the prints are not yet acceptable for my purposes - fine art exhibition quality.

To add insult to injury, I'm getting marking on the prints: A 10 X 15mm surface mark on every print, always in the same place. It's only visible on black - I can't pick it up on other prints, even though I know where it is - but at least half the shots are black where the mark is. Again, this happens only with the good paper - Hahnemülhe Photo Rag 308gsm. Prints on Epson Archival Matte have neither banding nor the mark.

My paper supplier, Jeremy at Image Science (http://www.imagescience.com.au/), who is being very helpful, tells me he has probably 100 clients using this paper/printer combination with no problems. The printer is new, so I don't think it would be dirty roller problem but who knows? I think I'll fix the banding by wasting a lot more ink on multiple cleaning cycles but the marking has got me worried.

I'm working through some of Jeremy's suggestions and have emailed Epson's Tech Support.

Less than 3 weeks to go before I have to hang the show... :blink:

billybob
24th February 2005, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by soulman@Feb 16 2005, 02:45 PM
I'm a long way from Melbourne and I'm fussy about my prints.

I'm getting a printer profile made for $70 which seems OK under the circumstances. The guy who's doing it is Image Science (http://www.imagescience.com.au/index.php).

Thanks for the info in any case. I'll report my results here when I've got the profile.
I can guarantee you wont be able to produce better B/W inkjet prints than them. They are professional printers for artists and photographers and specialise in display prints. When it comes to inkjet printing they have "been there, done that" and have all the answers already. I get prints done with them quite a few times a year and they never fail to impress me.

Besides, look at all the trouble you are having. How valuable is your time? Add that to the money you have already spent in ink, paper and the profile and you would already been able to get a few prints done.