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Velociraptors
23rd March 2004, 08:16 AM
Just a quickie, a thread for no reason at all...

Out of all the things Apple have done, what do you consider the dumbest decision in the history of the company.

dana

cogo
23rd March 2004, 08:57 AM
firing steve jobs in the mid-late 80s. but then again that that was probably a good decision considering the outcome we have today.

the_argon
23rd March 2004, 10:12 AM
hrrmmm, there would have to be a couple...

Probably releasing way too many different models in the mid 90's

Also, letting these loose in the wild:
PowerBook 5300
Nubus PowerMac's
The 'Puck' Mouse

LCGuy
23rd March 2004, 10:31 AM
Slot load iMacs: No fan....WTF was Apple smoking when they made that decision?

Dual USB iBooks: According to my experiences these things fall apart faster and feel more fragile than any other Mac i've ever used.

elvis
23rd March 2004, 12:21 PM
OS7, OS8 and OS9. Yuck, spew and double-chuck.

I wouldn't be a member of these boards today if it wasn't for OSX.

Disko
23rd March 2004, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by elvis@Mar 23 2004, 12:51 PM
double-chuck.
Wow. double-chuck.

This wont be popular with the traditionalists, but i *really* didn't like the coloured apple logo.

pipsqeek
23rd March 2004, 03:35 PM
The puck mouse, I find them stupidly unconfortable.

discontinuing The Cube.

Steve

Currawong
23rd March 2004, 04:17 PM
I had a think about this one. I was tempted to agree with the firing of Steve Jobs and the ditching of their attempts at creating Rhapsody, which would have got them to OSX stages way before OSX did, but in the end, OSX has been worth the wait.

Dropping the Newton might have been one of the worst decisions, but it was costing the company huge amounts of money to develop.

From my point of view, the OSX Finder, and the inability to turn of unnecessary eye candy in OSX were the two worst.

In addition, the first G3's were massively underpowered and under specced. The Powermac 9700, of which a friend owns one, has 12 RAM slots and dual 350Mhz 604e's, and thrashes most G3 machines. This is the machine Apple should have been making, not a machine with 3 RAM slots and a 233 Mhz processor, which has become one of the dog machines of the second-hand trade.

Probably their dumbest mistake has just come to light, that they have been selling gear cheaper to their own stores than to resellers in the USA while denying it. They've been busted, so it seems, and will get fried for it if it goes to court.

icant
24th March 2004, 02:04 AM
1. Making the Apple logo upside down on the Wallstreet, Lombard, and Pismo G3 PowerBooks. Otherwise good machines.

2. Making the 5200 and 6200 series of machines. Probably the only way to make cheap Macs at the time... But in retrospect, awful machines, that I feel maybe turned large numbers of people wanting low cost computers -- to Windows.

3. Going for DVD over CDR for early iMacs and iBooks. Without Firewire, those machines are really limited in how they can send large files to other computers -- not always the most convenient thing to set up networks. Nowadays USB thumbdrives save the day. And having a CDR drive makes a slow Mac running OS X at least useful.

4. Half hearted attempt with Pippin.

5. Positioning the first iBook as a eMate replacement, when they weren't anywhere close.

6. Saying the CRT was dead, although thankfully Apple wasn't dogmatic about it, and released the eMac soon after.

7. The OS "strategy" after System 7.6. Mac OS 8 was not what Mac OS 8 was supposed to be. No advanced Mac OS in the wings... although in the long term, getting Steve Jobs back from NeXT was probably the very best thing that has happened to Apple in the last 10 years.

8. Being stuck at G4 500MHz for several months. Motorola's fault really. Despite all what is said about the megahertz myth, I think stagnation is never a good thing. This allowed the Pentium machines to leap ahead, and made it awkward to upgrade the iBooks up to G4 as the PowerBooks were so slow...

9. Losing Bungie. Then losing Connectix. Bargains for Microsoft really.

10. Apple Australia. Enough said.

Overall, I think Apple is doing really well. 10 years ago, I would never have dreamt that Apple would have done so well with OS X. Despite all the doom about market share, education and so on... Maybe Apple could have done better if it hadn't lost focus in the mid 1990's. But thankfully, they're still around.

Velociraptors
24th March 2004, 03:41 AM
I have a few thoughts too

Losing jobs in the 80s, or employing that crap guy in the 90s. I always forget his name. Michael someone?

making the crap 5200/6200 machines. NuBus powermacs like the 6100 I can understand - they were limited, but bridged the gap for people who had hardware they needed to keep working. To then come out with a whole new machine like a 6200 that was even more messed up in architecture, and then CONTINUE on with more of them was GAH!. That, along with the whole confusing pc-style model naming. Performa 6112 indeed...

Getting rid of the rainbow logo! (ok that one's subjective :). I still adore the http://www.danamania.com/temp/shinyapple.jpg

Announcing the death of the CRT was a bit early, to my eyes... but then they didn't carry it out in practice so that's OK.

Not advancing the MacOS well enough in the early 1990s. 7 was OK for 1990, 7.5 would have been good for 1993, but 1997 should have been firmly OSX style I think.

moth
24th March 2004, 10:43 AM
My biggest gripe at the moment would have to be the TI Powerbook paint peeling issue. Fantastic design, awesome looks all spoilt by poor production. You could wrap your book in cotton wool and still find that the paint will bubble and peel, revealing the titanium case and copper underspray. A bit more research may have prevented these problems. Another gripe about the TI is the way the keyboard presses on the LCD screen when closed, leaving little indents. It's easily fixed with a sheet of paper under the lid but a pain in the backside.

pipsqeek
24th March 2004, 11:29 AM
The paint problem could have been easily avoided by Apple by using a great invention called Primer before painting the surface. My mates 15" PB looks like its been down the road and back behind a truck...its one of the reason (many of them) why I went iBook.

And yes, I get those key prints on the LCD screen of the iBook as well. I can't stand tha crap. its the little things.

Stev

jameso
24th March 2004, 10:42 PM
G4

jameso

LCGuy
25th March 2004, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by icant@Mar 24 2004, 02:04 AM
10. Apple Australia. Enough said.
Good thinking. Can't believe i forgot about those b@$tards.

WarwickG71
25th March 2004, 10:52 AM
I read this book called 'Infinte Loop" by Michael Malone - a good read, ya'll should read it.

Basically not licencing the Mac OS was a big mistake. Apple didn't believe Gates when he said "Software drives hardware, not the other way around", and it's kinda funny that they're correcting that now with Final Cut Pro and all the "i" software.

I think someone from Apple back in the dark ages also let Microsoft use the basis of the GUI interface for nothing or for some pittance? Anyone remember the details. It's in Infinite Loop but I can't find the reference.

Firing Jobs was a bit of a mistake too, but when you learn more about his personality, it's easy to see why. He maybe a sort of visionary, but his list of crappy personality traits is VERY long.

jameso
26th March 2004, 01:11 PM
Yeah, they swapped it on the condition that Microsoft would update office (word and excel at the time) on mac, it was a bad deal. then apple sued later on and ended up extorting Microsoft out of 63 million....

Thats wrong but it was something like that

jameso

pipsqeek
26th March 2004, 02:30 PM
Yeah, that is the same impression I got after watching the movie "Pirates of Silcon Valley"

Also something to look into, I recommend it.

Steve

jameso
31st March 2004, 05:28 PM
My copy of that move is scratched... god damn dvd's

jameso

QueenOfSwords
1st February 2005, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by jameso@Mar 31 2004, 05:28 PM
My copy of that move is scratched... god damn dvd's

jameso
You found it on DVD? I hunted around and had no luck at all.

Bob
1st February 2005, 12:06 PM
If it were not for a very ugly GUI on earlier Apple Operating Systems, then i would have been a mac user much earlier.

So having said that, and OS before OSX was the worst thing Apple ever did.

I always loved the machines, just not the software.

Bob

iluvmymactoo
1st February 2005, 12:23 PM
1. Apple Australia..big time!

2. Not making a 2 or 3 button mouse ..... get over it Apple and just give it to us.

Exocet
1st February 2005, 12:33 PM
Apple will not release a two button mouse. The Apple Interface Guidelines are based around anything that requires a right-click for contextual menus is poorly designed.

uncyherb
1st February 2005, 12:44 PM
Hiring Gil

Peter Wells
1st February 2005, 12:51 PM
no iTMS australia
no two button mouse
no screen on the ipod shuffle
no line in, mic in on ipod
no line in, mic in on ibook
1985-1997
discontinuing the apple IIc, i loved that little guy!

helloroto
1st February 2005, 12:53 PM
Not making every mac free :P the worst thing they did was release the clamshell without 2 usb and firewire and dvd! also they never made a dual b&w

matrixgeek
1st February 2005, 01:16 PM
Stopping the Newton just before it hit the big time
The Pippin
Any CEO not named Jobs, S (hey, he may be an asshole, but he's a clever & passionate one)

napes
1st February 2005, 01:19 PM
Although OSX is a vast improvement over the OS9x, the fact that so much hardware instantly became unusable & worthless when the new OS wouldn't support it was the biggest piss-off for me. I had a lovely Wacom tablet (ADB), and even though you could get ADB to USB adapters for running on newer hardware, OSX wouldn't support it - I had to reboot in OS9. Same went for a bunch of ADB/serial Audio gear I was using on an old beige box G3 - it simply wasn't supported on OSX so I had to sell it. :(

Oh - and the 3 button mouse thingy... for 3D & Audio work, a single button mouse simply won't cut it. If Apple would just give us the option!!!

CyBrTaz
1st February 2005, 01:31 PM
Well BC (Before Colour), Tooooooo many models.... And some really crappy ones at that!

AC (After Colour), Not having enough stock RAM in any model and the cost of buying "Apple" RAM is just way too expensive. :( Yes I know everyone gets their RAM from the reseller, but why should we have to.... Why can't we just buy the Mac ready to go, working for AppleCentres and having to always convince the buyer that you will need more RAM was a pain in the arse.
The iBooks and 12" Ti, seriously change the config and get the RAM off the mobo :blink: ... Upgradeable machines Apple, that’s what we all love!!!
And I know people will complain about this, the Mac Mini, I know small is good, but one RAM slot... 512MB & 1GB RAM is expensive!, a 2.5" HD, a nice small slow HD always works for me :huh: .

I love Apple but they really need to think about the specs of the models better.

As for Apple Australia, they can be a pain at times. Deals and offers can be done better.

Apple Australia, we, the Mac users of Australia, are a minority, look after us. Even hard core Mac users can change their spots.

I will always Love :wub: Apple, and always push Apple as the better alternative.


http://www.users.on.net/~fixmymac/cybrtaz/GetALifeGetAMac_white.gif

Phillip
1st February 2005, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by uncyherb@Feb 1 2005, 01:44 PM
Hiring Gil
I think hiring him was a good idea. Or how else were we gonna get Steve back?

Anyway, my list :

1. Apple Australia (by far)
2. AppleCare Pricing
3. Not buying NeXT earlier.

Crambo
1st February 2005, 05:26 PM
You mean to say, paying NeXT to buy themselves – Apple.

vicmeldrew
1st February 2005, 06:03 PM
Not having 2 operating systems. One for professionals/enthusists and another for novices. Purely cosmetic differences of course. After all, you would not get a Mack prime mover for granny to go to bowls in. And please, do not suggest the simple finder.
Not enough memory in new machines.
Security options not in one location.
Richard

Edit- typo edit-remove drool,edit typo - I know how much you guys hate sloppyness.

alexfregon2
1st February 2005, 06:40 PM
EASILY the stupid circular mouse that shipped with early iMacs and G3s. What were they thinking.

gelfie
1st February 2005, 06:44 PM
Killing Yellowbox for Windows.

Imagine how many mainstream cocoa apps we'd have if the companies (i.e Adobe etc) could deploy the very same app on Windows and Mac, with the same codebase, and even the same executable thank to "Fat Binaray"/"Multi Architecture Binary" executables.

And of course dumping Steve in the 80's. What a dumb arse decision that was for Apple... sure, they got lucky in the end.... but that's all it was, luck.

Gothikon
1st February 2005, 08:19 PM
Puck mouse
x200 Performas
Gil Amelio
not enough RAM in new systems (not so much stupid, just plain stingy)
The whole Apple vs. retailers blah blah fiasco

kit
2nd February 2005, 12:50 AM
There's a fair amount of misinformation here...

Microsoft invested 100 million US dollars in Apple, along with its ongoing agreement to continue development of Office for the Mac when... what'shisname, the Pepsi CEO who came to Apple and ousted Jobs... um... pre-Amelio... anyway, that guy, gave Microsoft the rights to use concepts and (supposedly) code from the Mac System.

I think people are too hard on Classic MacOS too. In 1995, I was on the internet on my 1991 Mac LC. I didn't know any other person (at my age, 9) who was able to do that with their computers. Classic MacOS, were it made more stable, is perfectly usable; even outshining OS X in some ergonomic ways (all of which can be implemented in OS X itself with the right tools).

To my mind, the biggest mistakes were:

1. Licensing the Mac to PowerComputing, etc, etc. They were just mistakes, and the clone companies mostly ended up suing Apple before they went under.

2. Making the G4 Cube too expensive. In its day, this computer really stood an outstanding chance at expanding the Mac's market-share. They could even have sold it at a tiny profit, and rely on the software and future hardware sales. In less than a year, it became one of those computers you saw a hundred times a day on TV and in movies. It was just... pretty.

3. Sticking with Motorola. Their G3 and G4 processors were both unnecessarily hot, and Motorola just didn't have the money to invest in boosting the processor speeds, introducing the Megahertz myth. Since switching to IBM, the PowerPC chips are at an all-time amazing high.

Although it would be nice if they could pick up the pace a fair bit quicker, so we could get cooler multi-gigahertz 970s :P.


I think there were some things that Apple did right that people think it did wrong:

1. Getting rid of Steve Jobs in the 80s was a weird thing to do. He did a great job as CEO; a great job as head of the Mac division at getting engineers so enthused about their jobs they didn't mind working forty hour days. But without him leaving, I don't see him really being so proactive at one-upping the MacOS (with NeXT). Had he not been so inspired to make something better, much of OS X wouldn't be what it is. On top of this, his leaving allowed him to make a return. A return which meant he was made the interim CEO; a position that forced him to turn the business around. To do something different that would cement his place as THE venerable Apple CEO. And in that position, he implemented the consumer/professional lines of computers. The 'i' revolution and the better sense of 'Power' in PowerMacs. He simplified the way things were named (think iMac over Performa 1234029348098), introduced the infamous iMac and iPod, and all around turned around the company.

2. Not licensing the OS to PCs. Not only is this technically unfeasible, it would have detrimentally affected the way Macs are seen in the world of computing.


Basically; everything Apple has done to get things to where they are right now (which is so close to 'right' it's uncanny) is, by necessity, a good thing.

If Apple didn't give Microsoft its intellectual property, and thus if Microsoft hadn't become the supergiant it is now, would Apple have been inspired to shake things up like it did with OS X? Probably, but like Pink, Rhapsody, etc, etc, it would probably have been delayed á là Longhorn.

chrish3677
2nd February 2005, 12:31 PM
Agree with many of the comments here, but my top 2 would be


#1 Losing sight of their original goal for the Mac to make an affordable machine for the masses. It's taken 21 years to achieve that goal.

I and many many many many many others would have been Mac users for the last 20 years if they had've stuck to that goal in 1984.


#2 Their pigheadedness. eg no 2 button mouse (I expect that to finally change now that they've released a computer targeted at people who already have 2 button mouses); not licencing MacOS in the 80's; non DOS compatible floppy disks; not using Centronics or RS232 ports; Apple key combinations instead of Ctrl key (eg apple-c for copy rather than ctrl-c. This one's really gunna bug the half-switchers buy Mac minis!) etc etc. And now they are risking the iPod's success by the same pigheadedness regards using it with any format and any online music store.

Of course, if not for #1 then #2 wouldn't have been relevant because Apple would likely have become the #1 computer maker and hence been the one setting the standards.


And the question would Steve staying at Apple have not led to OSX and the amazing Macs since his return?

No. Steve is a compulsive innovator. We would still be being amazed by Apple even if he had've stayed.