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sanjay
10th June 2007, 10:56 PM
hmm okie, got meself a G3 ibook for $100 with some accessories (install CDs, USB wireless thingo); the fault being that the screen doesnt work - you turn it on, get the "aah" sound, the caps lock light and everything works, everything spins up and it SOUNDS like its working...

...just confirming, this'll be the logic board right? gotta get a VGA - dicky little ibook connector adaptor just to make sure?

then its time to shove a shim under the motherboard :D

lavo
10th June 2007, 11:01 PM
Can you see a faint image on the screen, or nothing?

Byrd
10th June 2007, 11:01 PM
That the one on OCAU? Good score :)

So that's a snow iBook (ie. not a clamshell?).

- Shine a light at the screen, if the backlight is out you should still be able to see something displayed.

- See if you can reset PRAM

- Does anything happen if you move the screen around - eg. flickering?

- Yep, next step would be the little iBook VGA adapter, from any Apple shop, and then if not - it's hacking time :D

JB

tommelbourne
10th June 2007, 11:04 PM
Check out this thread:
http://forums.mactalk.com.au/showthread.php?t=30379

There are 2 main issues which could be causing your screen to be not working. Either the backlight is not functioning (can you see faint detail on the screen when you hold it up to light?), or the connector to the screen (via the hinge) is not making a good connection.

sanjay
10th June 2007, 11:12 PM
no flickering when i move the screen, no faint outline of what is on the screen (shone a torch into it to see).

will see if i can find out how to set the PRAM on a googlehunt (or maybe someone can tell me, last mac i owned was one of the first gen powerPC powerbooks - never mind; an odd combination keypress that i need 3 hands to achieve and some commands is the way to go), and borrow a VGA adaptor from work (got a couple ibooks for sale, i work at a pawnbroker)

yep, twas the one on OCAU, went to pick it up an hour ago, i figure the HDD and ram is worth $50 in itself and im always up for a bit of tinkering!

sanjay
11th June 2007, 12:01 AM
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/5159/dscn0784lm7.jpg

yep, thats one messed up logic board :)

303-Acid
11th June 2007, 07:23 AM
Looks like the same deal with one I bought. I got a G3 600 with 40gb for $130 knowing that the display had random lines. Apparently it's to do with the way the GPU is soldered onto the logic board. The contacts get loosened over time. A bit of pressure fixes it.

It's a known problem acknowledged by apple. LINK (http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/)
I guess you could try your luck calling them.

You could also try a shim fix. LINK (http://www.powerbook-fr.com/ibook/bricolage/repair_g3_video_en_article797.html) I did this fix, but with some cardboard. I just removed the bottom of the case and put a square of cardboard on the raised square where the GPU is. I haven't had a problem since.

Byrd
11th June 2007, 09:30 AM
sanjay: so how did you get it to fire up, does it boot even with artifacts?

JB

Arkhum_Eramak
11th June 2007, 09:33 AM
Yep, I've had a couple of G3 iBooks come to me with this problem. The shim fix is the way to go - I have two here at my house at the moment that need to be repaired in this way.

Amazing...it reminds me of an old G4 cube problem - they would sometimes shut down for no reason at all (well, for a reason but seemingly for no reason at all). Turned out (I found this in an obscure Cube FAQ on some website deep into a google search) that if the insides of said Cube were removed often, the bar the power button was on became slightly bent. A bit of pressure on the bottom of it and it was as good as new. I spent the better part of 6 months battling that damn computer, then I found out the problem and it came right - absolutely perfect in fact.

My point in that was - such a simple fix and often people will just turf the machine.

sanjay
11th June 2007, 11:21 AM
okay, well if anyone wants to turf their G4 cube because the power button doesnt work, come to me :D

to byrd - i placed pressure with my hand on the point on the bottom of the motherboard where the logic board is; it began to boot, but as soon as i took my hand away the little revolving circle stopped, the lines came in on the side of the screen and then it did some crazy-ass effects that looked like digital coloured static :D

so yeah looks like if ive just got something there under the GPU to hold it in permanently, i can have some mac goodness (at least for a little while...for $100 its worth it) for the first time since the late 90s...

...by the way, for those who have done the shim fix - how long has it worked for before dying again? i have an xbox 360 too which gets the dreaded three red lights of death, because of the same problem (BGA not holding the GPU down; heating it with a towel wrapped around for an hour actually fixes the problem, albeit only temporarily - i guess its the same symptoms); maybe ball grid arrays arent the smartest way to go! :p

oh and another thing with the shim fix - do i take the metal shield off the bottom, place something between the shield and the GPU directly, put the shield back on and put another shim between the bottom cover and the metal shield? or just something between the shield and the bottom of the case?

sanjay
11th June 2007, 12:40 PM
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/835/dscn0785on5.jpg

as a side note i love OS X :D

havent even opened the ibook yet - just pushed up on the area on the bottom of the lappy where the GPU is (next to the battery) and it booted and is now playing some odd music on itunes.

unfortunately this morning i found out i need a bloody size 0 or something allen key to open the bottom, so that'll have to wait till after exams when i go back to work (as we've got heaps of different allen keys there).

sanjay
12th June 2007, 02:28 AM
okie dokie i want to make a move to make this repair permanent, so im going to follow this guide:
http://www.powerbook-fr.com/ibook/bricolage/repair_g3_video_en_article797.html

can somebody help me though, this dude said that he got a sheet of aluminium, smothered it in thermal grease, took the bottom metal shield off the ibook then put that sheet of aluminium directly on top of the GPU, then put the metal shield back on and put little rubber stops on top of that...

...is it necessary to put the metal sheet under the metal shield? or can i just put four little rubber stops in over the square where the GPU is on top (bottom?) of the metal shield, rescrew it all back together and be done with it?

wouldnt putting greased up aluminium directly in contact with his motherboard make some nasty sparks fly and short circuits? thats the bit i really dont get. gonna head out to jaycar tomorrow to get an allen key small enough to unscrew the bottom if so :)

oh and thats another thing, am i going to need a torx screwdriver at any point in the operation? might pick up a set of them too tomorrow if so.

- Sanjay

jonargall
12th June 2007, 03:48 AM
My iBook G3 went through 5 logic boards under warranty before Apple finally replaced it with an iBook G4.
In the end, it turned out there was a problem with the logic boards in a whole lot of iBook models of that vintage; the good news is that Apple still replaces them for free!
http://www.apple.com/au/support/ibook/faq/

I hope that helps!

sanjay
12th June 2007, 11:00 AM
How long is the Expanded iBook Logic Board Repair Extension Program available?
The program covers affected iBooks for three years after the first retail sale of the unit or until 18 March 2005, whichever provides longer coverage for you. Apple will continue to evaluate the repair data and will provide further repair extensions as needed.

hmm, not really mate :)

hence why im trying the shim fix to be permanent.

sanjay
12th June 2007, 01:46 PM
okay well i went to jaycar to get the right sized allen key (had to buy a set of 25 but for $10 i thought i may as well)

then went to dick smith to get some of these: http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/H1745

opened up the bottom of my ibook using this tutorial: http://uk.geocities.com/ibookupgrade/lower_case_removal.htm

then cut the little feet that i got from dick smith to about half the height (boy was that a pain in the a$$) and stuck them onto the little square where the GPU was:
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2919/dscn0786ti2.jpg

crammed it all back in, and i thought the bulge was too much so i opened it up and cut a bit more of the rubber feet. now there still a little bulge at the bottom but with stories of people putting all four feet in, unmodified (http://www.powerbook-fr.com/ibook/bricolage/repair_g3_video_en_article797.html), and two coins taped together with gaffa tape (http://fak3r.com/2007/05/29/howto-fix-a-g3-ibook-with-a-bad-logic-board-for-26-cents/) i figured i'd be fine. :)

all booted up fine (was booting to the black screen again this morning so my wrap it in quilts to heat up the BGA trick was really only temporary) and has been running for an hour or so; i guess we'll see how long it goes for (i'll prolly keep it till it dies for good :) )

can anyone tell me how thick a piece of card/rubber/plastic/whatever they stuck under the GPU? i dunno if the thickness of the rubber bits (about 4mm) is too much...

jforge
12th June 2007, 02:18 PM
I have tried the shim trick and probably managed to squeeze another 8 months out of my G3 iBook 700, until the problem returned.

A work mate stumbled on this method which endeavors to refloat the solder underneath the logic board. It seems to be a longer lasting solution.

http://geektechnique.org/projectlab/726/diy-obsolete-ibook-logic-board-repair

I haven't tried it yet. If you read on thru the thread you'll discover a method which features the use of an heat gun, rather than a tea light.

bel.plews
12th June 2007, 02:24 PM
I have my G3 iBook die too, rang Apple and if it is in the serial number range
they said they might be able to do something for me? (rang today actually)

mmmmmmmmmmmm

Any of you guys in Melbourne who can do the (above) with my old G3 iBook?
I'm a gurly girl that hates opening up the guts of electronics ... :(

sanjay
12th June 2007, 02:46 PM
hey jforge, what did you use as the shim?

i thought about doing the heat trick.

but these ibooks suffer the same problem that my xbox 360 did...

...the repair that the vast majority of x360 owners have done, that has been permanent, has not been to resolder the BGA (because eventually the same thing happens) but to clamp down the GPU onto the board.

i figure the shim trick is the same. i doubt either solution is truely permanent though...hell, when the time comes that i get garbled video again, i'll just chuff it off on ebay and get my $100 back :)

cactus68
12th June 2007, 02:51 PM
ring apple, be nice but firm, speak to customer relations nobody else!!!
one call earlier this year got my iBook G3 800mhz fixed with a 3 day turnaround.
The logic board doesn't get replaced with a new one but a tested 2nd hand replacement.
comes with 90 day guarantee.
Mine has been running perfectly now, and running OSX10.4.9 all sweet.

If and when you do get it fixed NEVER pick up the iBook by the front LHS corner as you'll twist
the unit and prob cause the chip to separate then you are back to square one.

I did the shim fix before calling apple. used cardboard and had a fair bit of a bulge, it did fix it
to be a 95% working unit.

plenty of onfo on this site, just do a search

sanjay
12th June 2007, 02:57 PM
95% working?

hehe, maybe i'll try calling them after my exams, for now though im just happy that it works.

if they put a new logic board in will i lose all my data etc, or do they not touch the HDD? because its got OS X 10.3.9 on there atm and i only have install discs for 10.2...

kim jong il
12th June 2007, 03:44 PM
95% working?

hehe, maybe i'll try calling them after my exams, for now though im just happy that it works.

if they put a new logic board in will i lose all my data etc, or do they not touch the HDD? because its got OS X 10.3.9 on there atm and i only have install discs for 10.2...

They shouldn't touch the HD but it's not intelligent not having a backup.

sanjay
12th June 2007, 03:51 PM
They shouldn't touch the HD but it's not intelligent not having a backup.

nah its not that i have files on there that are important its just that reinstalling everything would be a major pain. :( is there a program like acronis for mac?

i guess i'd have to take out my little rubber stops before i sent it in too :p

trailblazer
12th June 2007, 04:11 PM
Watch out, LVDS cables tend to die pretty frequently on these models - the cables were wrapped in tape, so after frequent display movement, the tape and cable wore down and it can cause shorts - which often make the screen flicker, display lines intermittently, or depending on the extent of the wear, permanently...

Having said that, 85% of the time it's a logic board :p haha

kim jong il
12th June 2007, 04:45 PM
nah its not that i have files on there that are important its just that reinstalling everything would be a major pain. :( is there a program like acronis for mac?

i guess i'd have to take out my little rubber stops before i sent it in too :p

Not wise to assume that I'd know what Acronis (http://www.acronis.com/) actually is either (I've used a PC about 3 times in the last 10 years). :) You can use Disk Utility to make a restorable image of your HD or for more customisation and versatility you can use Carbon Copy Cloner or Super Duper. (you can search these forums for discussions of these applications)

sanjay
12th June 2007, 05:16 PM
thank god for google then, eh? :p

i apologise too, ive only used a mac about 3 times in the last ten years (but im trying, starting with this ibook and maybe a titanium powerbook if i can get one on the cheap)

jforge
12th June 2007, 07:11 PM
sanjay,

Little stick on rubber feet, available at any hardware outlet.

sanjay
12th June 2007, 07:57 PM
if you look at my picture on the last page you'll see i got little stick on rubber feet, but i felt they put too much of a bulge on the bottom of the case so i cut them down :) (so i guess yours has a massive bulge as youve just put them straight in?)

good to see its a tried method though...has your ibook gone to apple heaven now or did you find another fix?

303-Acid
13th June 2007, 09:14 AM
I just used some cardboard from a cereal box. I cut it to the width of the square and folded it around 4-5 times to get some thickness. I get the problem every now and then, mainly when I have it on an uneven surface such as my bed. When I get back to Aus I'm gonna try calling apple. I'd love to hear if anyone else is still having success getting them fixed by apple for free!

kim jong il
13th June 2007, 11:30 AM
.... I'd love to hear if anyone is still having success getting them fixed by apple for free!

Nothing like reading the whole thread first. :p (check out post #19)

sanjay
13th June 2007, 12:24 PM
well, one person doesnt exactly make a consensus. :)

Jazarus
13th June 2007, 12:27 PM
Yeah the heat fix seems so reliable enough as to increase the value of G3 ibooks with dead logic boards :D

I recently bid for one on ebay witht video problems same thing, started at 50$ and I lost the bid at 175$!

The seller made it very clear on the page that the iBook was a dead unit so I assume all of us who where bidding wanted to buy it with the heat fix in mind ;)

303-Acid
13th June 2007, 02:12 PM
Nothing like reading the whole thread first. :p (check out post #19)

Sorry, I had seen it, I meant to say "anyone else". I fixed my post. So...yeah, would be cool to know if anyone else has recent success. :thumbup: Personally I think that seeing as it is an acknowledged problem and that they are a supported product, they should still fix it. I will find out for myself when I get back home and try.

sanjay
13th June 2007, 02:27 PM
all i have to say is i hope apple support is better than dell's - my latitude D400's power socket died today and even though its still in warranty, i was told to transfer the warranty into my name before theyd do anything (this was bought as an ex lease machine and nobody knows the original company or name of the person who it belonged to in the beginning) - i think thats unreasonable, particularly as their site says that if i have a valid service tag, anyone can claim the warranty. of course, i have long believed that dell is a shit company...id never buy anything new off them. thankfully i can now use my 12 inch ibook on the go instead of the latitude, until i get them to repair it of course.

OT much? :D

EDIT - oh yeah, all the stuff written on the bottom of my ibook seems to have been rubbed off...how else can i get the serial number?

tommelbourne
13th June 2007, 02:31 PM
EDIT - oh yeah, all the stuff written on the bottom of my ibook seems to have been rubbed off...how else can i get the serial number?

Take out the battery. The SN should be on a small sticker inside the cavity.

303-Acid
13th June 2007, 02:33 PM
...SNIP...

EDIT - oh yeah, all the stuff written on the bottom of my ibook seems to have been rubbed off...how else can i get the serial number?

Lift out the keyboard, it's in there. Also in under the battery.

sanjay
13th June 2007, 02:49 PM
LOL - its clearly written in two spots in that very photo i posted on the first page!

im not going to have any troubles with apple regarding ownership and registered owners and all that crap like with dell am i?

kim jong il
13th June 2007, 06:49 PM
...

EDIT - oh yeah, all the stuff written on the bottom of my ibook seems to have been rubbed off...how else can i get the serial number?

Too easy. :) At the top left of your screen, click on the "Apple" menu, select "About This Mac" and when the window pops up click the "More Info" button. If no serial number is listed under "hardware" it has already had a logic board replacement.

sanjay
15th June 2007, 08:40 PM
okay well a couple days ago i bought an ibook G4 for $100 (see sig)

fixed! thanks to www.coreyarnold.org

i noticed that the actual faulty chip extends under the cable thing that goes over it so i just put another one of dick smith's little rubber feet, cut down to size with an indendation for the part of the chip that wasnt covered by the fat snake cable (so as to get even pressure) - success!

one problem, the previous owner had passwords on his OS X...and hes not online at the moment...and i dont have an OS X install CD to reset the password :(

303-Acid
16th June 2007, 02:12 AM
...snip...

one problem, the previous owner had passwords on his OS X...and hes not online at the moment...and i dont have an OS X install CD to reset the password :(

reboot the machine
go into single user mode by holding COMMAND-S
mount the root volume as read write by typing: /sbin/mount -wu /
type: /sbin/SystemStarter
change the password: passwd root
reboot

I think that's about it.

kim jong il
16th June 2007, 12:23 PM
303-Acid. Interesting. After reading this I did a bit of searching and found two other command line methods for password resetting although both of these rely on there being no Open Firmware password set. Even that, apparently, is only a minor issue as I then found a method for discovering that also.

sanjay
16th June 2007, 07:34 PM
303-Acid. Interesting. After reading this I did a bit of searching and found two other command line methods for password resetting although both of these rely on there being no Open Firmware password set. Even that, apparently, is only a minor issue as I then found a method for discovering that also.

and you still dont agree that mac OS password protection leaves alot to be desired?

doesnt matter guys, the orignal owner gave me his password :)

the new question of the day is, how do i revert his custom icons back to their factory originals?

303-Acid
17th June 2007, 06:50 AM
303-Acid. Interesting. After reading this I did a bit of searching and found two other command line methods for password resetting although both of these rely on there being no Open Firmware password set. Even that, apparently, is only a minor issue as I then found a method for discovering that also.

I think it's a general unix/linux thing. I have used single user mode and passwd on a linux machine on which I had forgotten the password too.

sanjay
19th June 2007, 06:55 PM
okay new question

original airport cards - support WPA?

if so, maybe i'll pay the extortionate price for one (nothing like inbuilt wireless) - if not, completely useless to me. :(

Byrd
19th June 2007, 07:14 PM
Yep, WPA/WEP are supported on original Airport cards (it's more the software).

JB

sanjay
20th June 2007, 12:49 AM
okay well i just had another look on ebay and im not paying $100 for a bloody airport card.

ive got a cisco aironet 340 in here but when i put it in the airport slot, the status light comes on (on the card) but the ibook will start up then just shut down...

can anyone tell me what PCMCIA wireless card theyve got working in their ibooks? i know the lucent/orinoco ones work but it seems everybody knows that and they go for a pretty penny on ebay still...

303-Acid
20th June 2007, 05:18 AM
Have a look at the HARDWARE COMPONENTS sections of the OSX86 Wiki (http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page). It has a list of working pc hardware under OS X in a PC. I'm not 100% sure if that means they will also work under OS X on a mac, but I presume they would as it's software and drivers.

But personally I have used a Cabletron (orinoco) in two clamshells and my current G3 600 iBook. Though I haven't modded it for a permanent fit, I just pop it in for quick sessions and have the keyboard sit out.

sanjay
20th June 2007, 11:45 AM
looks like an orinoco or lucent is the way to go then...shame this cisco one wont even let the ibook boot...only cost me $5 and supports WPA2 :D

sanjay
22nd June 2007, 05:05 PM
argh...

...picked up a lucent bronze card (apparently the same as the ORIGINAL clamshell ibooks)

pryed it open and shoved it in

the ibook knows somethings there because it becomes really slow and laggy but wont recognise it :(

should work in a clamshell though...anyone want it for $2 (what i paid for it would you believe) plus post? :)

sanjay
24th June 2007, 05:44 PM
new question

does the clamshell ibook use the same power adaptor as the snow ibooks?

(as in same connector...i know they ditched the cool roll-up adaptor for the snow models)

303-Acid
24th June 2007, 06:21 PM
new question

does the clamshell ibook use the same power adaptor as the snow ibooks?

(as in same connector...i know they ditched the cool roll-up adaptor for the snow models)

Nope. Unfortunately they have different connectors.