PDA

View Full Version : Black Message "You need to Restart..." comes up



Jarkman
3rd January 2005, 07:22 AM
I have a 12 inch Powerbook G4 865 MHz with 512Mb RAM running the latest updated Panther.

I have recently had problems with the computer crashing every 15 minutes or so, sometimes even after I restart with a black box with 4 languages saying "Hold down Power key for a few seconds or press Restart button..."

It doesn't seem to respond to the Power button, so I've been restarting with Ctrl+Apple+Power.

I've run the Protection plan CD's TechTool Deluxe and the only thing amiss is that some of the disk volume needs to be repaired. I launched the repair but the computer froze up in the middle of cleaning for half an hour and I'm reluctant to waste that much time again.

I've disconnected all peripherals and my ethernet/ADSL connection - nothing else seems to make a difference or influence this - it's not a panic, but it is really annoying given everything has been beautigfully stable for the last 12 months.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Jarkman

MacDave
3rd January 2005, 07:51 AM
Jarkman ~

What you are seeing, the box with the 4 languages, is indeed a kernel panic.

Go to /Applications/Utilities/Console and check your logs for anything revealing.

Alternatively (or if your console doesn't launch), you can tail your logs in terminal;i.e.

tail -f /Library/Logs/panic.log

"tail" to see the last part of your logs, "head" to see the first part, and "cat" to see the entire log.

Your logs all reside in /var/log & /Library/Logs & ~/Library/Logs

Reinstalling the COMBO updater for 10.3.7 may help. Remember to repair permissions both before and after installing the combo updater.

Beyond that, you can do an archive/install of panther without losing any information.

Good luck =)

Paxton
3rd January 2005, 07:56 AM
My B&W G3 has been doing this recently. I have been putting another Hard Disc Drive into the computer (running Panther) to get X on the stock Hard Drive in the computer, and it KP's. I narrowed it down to be a bad block of Ram, which KP's in my G4 as well.

Moose
3rd January 2005, 08:26 AM
I hate the smell of RAM in the morning! :angry:

I don't know big heaps about these bad boy apples yet, but it smells a lot like RAM issues I had recently. :blink:

Edit: typo

purana
3rd January 2005, 08:43 AM
The error message you report in my apple tech experience usually indicates dodgy RAM in the machine. If you have 2 dimms, remove one and operate with only one. Try and pin point which one it is. Ultimately if its under warranty go get it checked out.

Hope you didn't recently add more ram to this machine (as Id suspect the new addition of ram).

iain
3rd January 2005, 08:47 AM
I had a similar problem - I would get 2 to 3 KP's a day on my powerbook.
I threw every test I could think of at it - memory, harddrive, ...
I used the hardware test disk that came with my powerbook, and did an extended hardware test on loop - 10 times and nothing showed up as bad. I even fsck'd it!

I was forced to conclude that software was my problem. I did a full backup, zerod my harddrive (probably unnecessary) and reinstalled OS X.

That was a week ago, and since then, nothing. All is good.

Jarkman
3rd January 2005, 09:58 AM
Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far.

A Kernel panic eh? I knew being yelled at in 4 languages had to be bad.

(Have since had another one while trying to reply to this forum - dammit!)

Thanks to spectre for the console/log tip. This is the last/most recent entry in my panic.log:


panic(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x000836E4 0x00083BC8 0x0001EDA4 0x00090CD8 0x000940CC
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2580DA00)
PC=0x00038EEC; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x61646564; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x00038ED4; R1=0x0F92BC00; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x002F4FC0 0x0005C344 0x00063DF4 0x00064294 0x0002F88C 0x00211224 0x00211490 0x0021135C
0x002463C4 0x00094260 0x00730069
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.NVDAResman(3.3.6)@0x4d4000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x395000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.3)@0x49f000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.3)@0x4be000
Exception state (sv=0x2B8DB280)
PC=0x900235A4; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x8FE55070; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x90023598; R1=0xF0080A40; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.7.0:
Sun Nov 7 16:06:51 PST 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.9.5.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

*********


Anything obvious to anyone in there? (I'm at a loss).


As to new RAM - no I maxed up my RAM within a week of buying my laptop about 12-18 months ago so I don't think new RAM is an issue. Can't remember if I have one or two sticks (probably one) but I still have my original 128 RAM, so I could do the RAM test suggested.

"Reinstalling the COMBO updater for 10.3.7 may help. Remember to repair permissions both before and after installing the combo updater."

Sorry, do you mean off the original Panther disks or via the web?

By repair permissions do you mean via the TechTool or something else?

"Beyond that, you can do an archive/install of panther without losing any information."

I'd really like to avoid that. The whole thing's caught me in mid (belated) backup which has increased the stress level somewhat.

Thanks again for any suggestions. I'll start digging out my original disks and track down my original RAM while I archiove like crazy.

Jarkman

Jarkman
3rd January 2005, 11:21 AM
Have reinstalled original RAM. Interestingly I note the package my new RAM came in says SODIMM RAM (3rd party) which I hadn't noticed before. So far so good but sluggish...

Dodgy RAM? I don't know - I bought from the Flinders St Apple store.

I also found this Kernel Panic FAQ

http://www.macmaps.com/kernelpanic.html

This seems to suggest that RAM issues aren't all that common in my situation.

I'd like to still be able to use my extra 512Mb RAM. So I'll try and do the other fixes as well.

Any thoughts,

Jarkman

decryption
3rd January 2005, 11:47 AM
Faulty RAM is a *very* common occurance. I wouldn't be surprised if every 1 in 8 sticks of RAM has some sort of fault. Just because it was from an Apple retailer doesn't mean it's invulnerable from defects. They get it from the same places the local PC store down the road gets it from.

You can always take the stick of RAM back to MyMac, say it gives you kernel panics in 10.3 and they'd probably just swap it over for another stick of RAM. Take the laptop in too to show them what happens with the RAM in, and then again with the RAM out.

kim jong il
3rd January 2005, 12:46 PM
Repairing permissions is achieved (in the absence of handy little helper app's like control freak) by booting from the panther install disk 1, running disk utility and selecting repair permissions. (EDIT3: see spectres post below for an easier option - I'm an idiot (also pre-occupied on another mission ATM)) Some installers do not reset these to normal values when they quit and so this can help with a lot of problems.

I have to say that permissions seems a long shot and as such my guess is that it is the RAM also. However I am not experienced with troubleshooting via log files (annoying for me I must say) and cannot interpret your log (I cannot seem to find the log from when I was suffering from kernel panics too) Fortunately troubleshooting RAM is very straightforward (removal/swapping). Where your log says "panic (cpu 0): 0x300 data access" I'm guessing (90% sure) that points to RAM. Thats how I would interpret it.
The problem with flaky RAM is that it is not always a clear cut: YES it works, NO it doesn't. It can work SORT OF and when it delivers bad data or does not deliver it in time to the CPU you get the panic.

EDIT: A possible advantage of buying RAM from an Apple retailer is that it should have a lifetime warranty. Thats part of the reason why you paid a premium. Do what Decryption said; you'll probably find that they are quite good about helping you out.
To force kernel panics (with dodgy/suspect RAM in place; not necessary but slot 0 if you can remove both chips (guarantees that it will be utilised when testing)) open multiple applications until the activity monitor says that you have almost no free RAM and the do something processor intensive in something like photoshop. Should panic fairly quickly
EDIT2: You can also get consistent verification failures during CD burning with flaky RAM

Jimbo
3rd January 2005, 01:14 PM
i can make my machine do this without fail when its too hot.

All i do, is wait for a 40*C day, and render some huge effect in FCP and walk away, within half an hour this will happen.

no really i just made it do it...

Ever since my processor died, and i got that new one, its been really weird.
Jim

Edge
3rd January 2005, 02:36 PM
If the culprit is bad RAM, this can also cause corruption on your boot volume, requiring a reinstall. A failing stick of 512MB RAM hosed a 60GB partition on my Cube. Not pleasant.

MacDave
3rd January 2005, 04:23 PM
As others have suggested, the problem may be RAM (even if you've not experienced issues before with it). Reseat your RAM chips and if possible, blow the slots out with compressed air.

To repair permissions, one needn't boot from the panther CD - It can be done two ways:

in /Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility -> Repair Permissions

or...

in Terminal by typing:

diskutil repairPermissions /

By combo updater, I meant that which you'd download from the apple site.

http://wsidecar.apple.com/cgi-bin/nph-reg3...Combo10.3.7.dmg (http://wsidecar.apple.com/cgi-bin/nph-reg3rdpty1.pl/product=05172&platform=osx&method=sa/MacOSXUpdateCombo10.3.7.dmg)

Combo updates are more stable than mini-updaters.

Currawong
3rd January 2005, 04:55 PM
Definitely try re-seating the RAM first, even more common than faulty RAM in Powerbooks are problems with their insertion.

Jarkman
3rd January 2005, 06:16 PM
Again, thanks to everyone for their help/suggestions (esp spectre, kim jong il).

I originally thought the problem was heat as well as it's been a bit hot in Melbourne lately and I've been using the PB fairly heavily - I'd noticed a hot spot under my PB after a few hours on my desk (it acts as a faux desktop at times). This seems to have been fixed by a pair of metallic coloured Postworx Speedballs (http://www.postworx.com/) that allow air to circulate under the notebook - a great little investment for ~$25.

The notebook still gets a bit hot under the battery, but I tried it when it had cooled down etc and still got a KP, sometimes after starting up even when cool. I wish it was that simple.

I've done the following:

1) Repaired the permissions using Disk Utility

2) Swapped in my original 128Mb RAM stick (only a single slot in a Powerbook of course)

I then tried to repair the volume structure using TechTool Deluxe but it seemed to freeze while completing the fifth (out of six) task and I had to reboot.

I haven't had any more KPs since completing the first two steps. The next step I suppose is to swap back in the 512Mb RAM stick (I don't have compressed air available - where would I get that?) - maybe reseating it will fix the problem.

Seems odd that it's happened now though.

Fingers crossed - I think my RAM fits into the SORT OF works category...

A late Q - if I use the Combo-Updater, will I need to back up all my files or just my System files?

Thanks,

Jarkman

MacDave
3rd January 2005, 06:44 PM
A late Q - if I use the Combo-Updater, will I need to back up all my files or just my System files?

Neither - The combo updater will just reinstall system files over your existing ones without touching preference files or any others one would normally backup.

I buy compressed air at places like Office Depot (or any office supply stores) in small cans and every couple of months, blow out the innards of my macs including the RAM slots.

Before & After compressed air - http://tribbles.org/mac/view_album.php?set_albumName=robby

also, as my webserver looks now - http://tribbles.org/mac/view_album.php?set...Name=cheap-date (http://tribbles.org/mac/view_album.php?set_albumName=cheap-date)

Jarkman
3rd January 2005, 08:44 PM
OK, an update...

I ran the Combo updater (with the original 128Mb RAM in situ) - no problems there.

I then switched the RAM, restoring the 512Mb stick. No compressed air but usual precautions.

Instant KP when trying to log in. So restart...

Instant KP (not even login window). So restart...

Manage to switch off power.

Now login...

But now detects extra RAM (total 640Mb now detected). Running as I post this. (Fingers crossed).

So it sounds like it could be the RAM, eh?

Plan for tomorrow: trip down to MyMac to discuss replacement RAM...


Jarkman

Moose
3rd January 2005, 08:50 PM
Sounds very ram :(

Am I right in thinking that you have been using that ram with no problems for some time? That's odd that it would suddenly decide to shit itself!? :blink:

Jarkman
3rd January 2005, 09:07 PM
I've been using my PB with the "extra" RAM in it for over a year. Last month or so I noticed a few crashes which were KPs in retrospect. Only new hardware was ADSL modem which I've isolated (not the problem) and is working fine regardless of all this.

Maybe I clunked the laptop (or my son clunked it) - could this unseat the RAM?

As an update:

So far so good since switching the 512Mb stick back in.

I've had the system running for almost an hour and no KP.

Fingers crossed, I'll leave it on overnight and see what happens in the AM...

Seems like things have stabilised temporarily after the initial series of KPs on startup.

Still want to check out swapping the RAM though...

Jarkman

AusMac
4th January 2005, 01:02 AM
Overheating can be a real issue.
There are cooling pads you can buy or you can simply find a bit of breathable material. As long as it has definite interconnecting breathe-ways, then it will be a duct for displaced air. If this material is also insulating then it will be of great value .. as long as it does not raise the keyboard to an awkward height. Even a piece of corrugated cardboard will do.

Jarkman
4th January 2005, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by AusMac@Jan 4 2005, 01:02 AM
Overheating can be a real issue. There are cooling pads you can buy or you can simply find a bit of breathable material. As long as it has definite interconnecting breathe-ways, then it will be a duct for displaced air. If this material is also insulating then it will be of great value .. as long as it does not raise the keyboard to an awkward height. Even a piece of corrugated cardboard will do.
Thanks, but I've already thought of that, hence the Speedballs (see above post)

It KPs even when switched on from cold (ie. did so this morning after being off for 2 hours and feeling cold against my hand...)


Jarkman

kim jong il
4th January 2005, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Jarkman@Jan 3 2005, 10:07 PM
snip

Maybe I clunked the laptop (or my son clunked it) - could this unseat the RAM?

snip
Absolutely. There was a thread here about this very thing (http://forums.appletalk.com.au/index.php?showtopic=3263&hl=sleeping+with) less than two weeks ago that may be worth looking at (as you are new here, the blue text is a link) :)

Jarkman
4th January 2005, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by kim jong il@Jan 4 2005, 12:47 PM
Absolutely. There was a thread here about this very thing (http://forums.appletalk.com.au/index.php?showtopic=3263&hl=sleeping+with) less than two weeks ago that may be worth looking at

snip
Thanks for the link kim...

I wandered into the store and promptly demonstrated a KP while I logged in with the dodgy 512Mb stick in place - fairly convincing. Isolating everything else, the KPs seem to pinpoint the RAM as the issue.

I now have some new RAM ordered (luckily was under lifetime warranty).

Currently operating with my 128Mb stick in situ without any problems so far, so I suspect the fault's with the RAM and not the seating, despite clunking in the past (there's a dent near the Combo drive slot which doesn't seem to have affected things but that was a while ago).

Thanks to everyone for the help, I'll update/notify if the new RAM completely fixes the issue or if something esle crops up in case people are interested.

Cheers,

Jarkman


BTW: Kim's post mentioned one of the moderators has a 1Gb stick in his PB - any truth to this or am I just succumbing to greedy thoughts?...

decryption
4th January 2005, 02:46 PM
Yeah, you can get 1GB sticks of RAM. You can get two of them for 2GB :P
A 1GB stick retails for about $350 if my memory serves me correctly.

Jarkman
4th January 2005, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by decryption@Jan 4 2005, 02:46 PM
Yeah, you can get 1GB sticks of RAM. You can get two of them for 2GB :P
A 1GB stick retails for about $350 if my memory serves me correctly.
Thanks. So, given my recent experience with dodgy RAM...

Is there a 1Gb RAM stick supported by Apple in an older 867MHz G4 PB or would I be looking at 3rd part RAM?

decryption
4th January 2005, 04:05 PM
All RAM is 3rd party. There is no "supported Apple" RAM.
Your only hope of not getting dodgy RAM is sticking to name brands, and those who offer lifetime warranties. Corsair and Kingston are the names to look for.

Jarkman
5th January 2005, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by decryption@Jan 4 2005, 04:05 PM
All RAM is 3rd party. There is no "supported Apple" RAM.
Your only hope of not getting dodgy RAM is sticking to name brands, and those who offer lifetime warranties.
Thanks, I think I was a bit confused by something in the AppleCare Protection plan about "third party authorised technicians" etc.

I think I'll stick to lifetime guarantee RAM...

So far, with the original 128Mb stick in I've not had a KP now for hours despite multitasking, leaving the power on and allowing some ehat build up...

Thanks again to all those who helped out.


Jarkman

harryb2448
5th January 2005, 03:07 PM
Similar problem witha G4 Tower when first set up.

Apple Australia Service Superviser advised the following procedures:-

1. Zero the HDD and then reformat.

2. Check the HDD with Disk Repair utility, Repair Disk, from start up disc 1.

3. Install your software and then check HDD using Repair Permissions in Disk Utility within OS.

4 Run Repair Permissions until no repsirs are reported.

5. install Software Updates, running repair permissions after each seperate installation.

Run Repair Permissions regularly.

When downloading Software Updates do NOT instal, download to 'Packages', run Repair Disk and Repair permissions, then install updates, and run Repair Permiossions again after instal is complete.

Hope this helps.

Jarkman
5th January 2005, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by harryb2448@Jan 5 2005, 03:07 PM
Run Repair Permissions regularly.

When downloading Software Updates do NOT install, download to 'Packages', run Repair Disk and Repair permissions, then install updates, and run Repair Permiossions again after install is complete.
Well, I seem to have got away so far without reinstalling and zeroing given the problem seems isolated to the RAM, but the rest of the advice seems sound about Disk Utility before and after updating.

Thanks for the tip.

Jarkman

Jackson Ho
17th January 2005, 09:27 PM
Hi guys...

My Powerbook keeps coming up with that grey box saying I must restart in a few languages.

Checking through my logs there is no consistant error, it just occurs when I open up a few programs at once. All my logs have are

time - Did this and this
Later time - restart.


I put more RAM in about 3 weeks ago (swapped a 256 for a 512 to make it 786 total) . Last changes I made were trimming my iTunes library and putting on Konfabulator and running about 4 widgets.

Any ideas? Most likely a RAM problem?

josh64
17th January 2005, 09:36 PM
Hi Jackson,

It sounds to me like it's a RAM problem.
Try swapping the 256 back in if you still have it, or just run the PowerBook with no extra RAM if it's a 12".
If it's >= 15" then leave the original 256 in it, and run it with only one dimm.

Alternatively you could boot from the CD's included with your laptop, and run the hardware utility and do the extensive memory test.

Cheers,

Josh.

Danamania
17th January 2005, 09:52 PM
Basically what Josh said. That error you see is when the core of the OS (the most stable part) gets confused. Either it's a rare bug in the OS that causes it (when it happens out of the blue) or the hardware it's running on just isn't up the scratch, and for that the most common problem is bad RAM.

Unfortunate if you have to replace it, but that gives you an idea on the first places to start looking, by removing RAM to see how it performs with & without sticks.

dana

pipsqeek
18th January 2005, 09:34 AM
My iBook G4's 512MB RAM chip has become faulty.

I found out because all my apps practically do not work. I start them up. They "unexpectedly quit".

The Finder also randomly abandons ship. The machine has been freezing aproximately 5 times a day.

I did a hardware test (which you should be able to do with the CD's you would have got with OSX. And this should tell you what area to look at.


pipsqeek

Currawong
18th January 2005, 09:15 PM
As there's a similar thread about this already, with the same issues and same advice, I'm merging the topics so that the info is all in one place.

Jarkman
24th January 2005, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Jarkman@Jan 5 2005, 03:40 PM
Well, I seem to have got away so far without reinstalling and zeroing given the problem seems isolated to the RAM, but the rest of the advice seems sound about Disk Utility before and after updating.

Well, I hope Jackson sorts his problem out (sorry, unsubscribed from thread for a while).

Just a cautionary note: never speak to soon...

So I'm traipsing along happily with my new RAM, no worries. having been scared a bit, I backup everything to CD and think about a LaCie external FW HDD as a long term option.

So two days ago, I think "Hmm must get that HDD - nah, I'll wait to next week. Still, when I get home I must back up those 3 hour long interviews I did last week."

Anyway, my wife needed to finish an Ethics application for her Research - we're up all night but finally get it finished. Oddly, the mouse freezes once or twice near the end but nothing major...

"Hmm, must check that out after I backup those CDs in the morning..."

Next morning - system freezes. OK, no drama - try again.

Kernel Panic.

&*^%$^

Can't even startup, even with the new RAM out - so not RAM issue.

$%&*^*

Run Disk Utility - Repair Permissions but can't repair disk. Uh oh....

Try Apple Hardware Test - Everything OK.

Try TechTool Deluxe from AppleCare plan - can't repair disk. Uh oh.

Try "Install & Archive" from OS X Panther Install disks - can't do...

Sweat. A lot.

Don't want to erase whole HDD and lose interviews and wife's Ethics draft (Interviews each ~1GB uncompressed, so thumbdrive out of the question - I usually zip them then append to CD).

Fitful sleep.

Call AppleCare this morning - on hold for 45 minutes with no answer!

Call Flinders St MyMac - "Try TechTool Pro, DiskWarrior or failing that Data Rescue for Mac"

Waste a lot of time trying to repair things with TechTool before it hangs 2 hours in and I give up.

So I buy a LaCie d2 160GB HDD and DiskWarrior.

First try stalls (I only have base 128Mb RAM in, having forgotten to replace 512Mb stick).

Second try - beautiful! All fixed in about 30 minutes.

Now in the process of backing EVERYTHING up. Probably do clean install as well.

Have learnt my lesson well.

Hopefully, given Currawong has now merged these threads (with all the great tips by the guys that helped me) all this helps someone else someday.

Good Luck Jackson...

Cheers,

Jarkman

DJY
24th January 2005, 09:59 PM
Thanks for all the info all!

I saw this four language message for the first time on my 17PB tonight!
Didn't know what it was! and from reading this - hope I don't see it again EVER.

At least if I do - I will now have a small clue about first actions one requirements and possible causes.

Edge
24th January 2005, 10:43 PM
Just a reminder to all. The Apple Hardware Test CD that came with your computer will not necessarily pick up bad RAM. Don't believe it when it says 'Passed.'

Jackson Ho
24th January 2005, 11:41 PM
Thanks guys... it was the RAM.

Back down to 512mb now though...

Jarkman
25th January 2005, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Edge@Jan 24 2005, 10:43 PM
Just a reminder to all. The Apple Hardware Test CD that came with your computer will not necessarily pick up bad RAM. Don't believe it when it says 'Passed.'
Yeah, I agree - don't rely on the basic hardware CD.

Even TechTool Deluxe (comes with Applecare Protection Plan) missed my dodgy RAM - I think it has something to do with it being "DODGY" not just "CAPUT", which is what the HArdware tools seem to look for...

Jarkman

Enoch
11th March 2005, 12:26 PM
Hi all,

New to this forum. Hope this thread is still open. I have a long ongoing problem like this with my imac700 - and I'm desperate. Everything that's been said about RAM I'm sure is right, but in my case it doesn't add up as the issue (even though it seemed to at first). Long history - I'll try to be brief (sorta'):

Panic log has been very consistent right through. Here's the latest one (and it's virtually identical to most of the others):



panic(cpu 0): Apparent UniNorth Hang: AGP STATUS = 0x00000004

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x000835F8 0x00083ADC 0x0001EDA4 0x0094C3C0 0x0094CB3C 0x009365E0 0x0027DCB0 0x0027F984
0x0007AF60 0x00021668 0x0001BCE8 0x0001C0F0 0x000942B8 0x00690065
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.GeForce(3.4.2)@0x92f000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x450000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.4)@0x463000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x498000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.4)@0x482000
com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x498000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x450000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.4)@0x463000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.4)@0x482000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x32A40A00)
PC=0x900074C8; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x003E6000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x90007018; R1=0xBFFEE490; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.8.0:
Wed Dec 22 14:26:17 PST 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.11.1.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

- added an extra 512MB RAM card (768 total)
- panics started over a year ago with the odd one here and there, and then gradually getting more and more frequent.
- By about 6 or 9 months ago they were several times a day.
- Eventually started happening while booted from a CD (OSX Install, DiskWarrior).
- a seemingly "conclusive" test pointed to bodgy RAM: Ran Diskwarrior 3 times while booted from CD with RAM in - crashed everytime during process / then ran DW same way 3 times with RAM out - ran perfectly. Conclusion seemed obvious.
- ran just fine for a week, minus extra RAM
- swapped RAM (warranty). Installed new 512 RAM. Ran beautifully for two days
- after two days, crashed again .. then repeated same pattern as before, i.e. increasing frequency of crashes over months
- concluded new RAM was bodgy as well
**Now note the next bit**
- pulled RAM out ... crashed again as soon as I tried to reboot, same text in panic log as before!!
- ran it for a week (without the extra RAM) - crashed at least once a day
- decided to try RAM back in .. found the plastic & metal bracket that holds the RAM in was now broken .. managed after three attempts to get bracket on just the right angle to hold the RAM in the slot
- ran beautifully for a day or two, then a couple of crashes
- consulted my technician again. We decided it's probably a bodgy logic board, and that with now no warranty it's better economics to buy a new computer!
- that decision was a week ago, and the system has run faultlessly since then - with the RAM delicately perched in it's broken bracket

I'm now making a last desperate bid to identify a less painful solution that may yet have been missed. The faulty logic board theory is based on 1. the consistent reference to the GeForce card in the log (I gather imac graphics cards are soldered to the logic board, so not replaceable separately), and 2. the problems with the RAM slot (also soldered to the board I believe).

Can anyone offer any other clues?

If it is indeed the logic board, does anyone know a possible source for a replacement logic board? (And is it worth trying?)

Thanks in desperate anticipation...

Currawong
11th March 2005, 09:16 PM
That kernel panic is talking about the northbridge (UniNorth) and the AGP card - I'd remove your video card and put it back in.

uncyherb
11th March 2005, 11:31 PM
Indeed, from a quick glance that looks like video ram is the culprit.

Mike V
15th March 2005, 11:38 AM
Kernel panics are almost always indicate a hardware fault.

If your machine is still under warranty, definitely send it back.

Enoch
15th March 2005, 11:52 AM
Thanks for comments, guys. No, sadly, it's not under warranty. In which case, is my technician indeed right that it wouldn't be economic to get it fixed?Currawong - you say pull the video card. Apart from the fact that I'm nowhere near techie enough to try that without fainting, I though the video card was soldered to the logic board on these imacs anyway? Is that right?

Graham
18th August 2005, 08:15 PM
I got one a couple of days ago on an iMac G5. I've had it for a few months without any problems (no burning smell so I may have got lucky on the capacitors - hopefully that's not jinxing it!). I think it *may* have had to do with accessing a remote FTP server in the Finder but I can't tell because there was no entry in the panic.log file at all. Admittedly it had been running for over three weeks and I'd had to forcibly kill a few apps in recent days but I'd expect to at least be given a hint as to the cause.

designers_hub
18th August 2005, 08:27 PM
i had the same problem on my imac g5 after i deleted some system files my mistake.

1. remove the battery and powercord for 30seconds, place them back in, powerup... done

2. IF you still come up to that screen, do it again but insert your apple installation CD and boot from the CD (press C), you need to press it in time, if you don't, leave the CD inside and redue step 1.

3. the installation window will come up, go to Disk Utility and repair permissions. this should fix everything.

I don't believe this is a hardware issue. One of your system files is probably missing or corrupted, like the kernel or something.

Graham
18th August 2005, 09:36 PM
Cheers, d_h, but I'm pretty sure I didn't delete any system files. After the crash I simply hit the power button and it came back on and has run OK so far. Given the number of apps that were starting to get the spinning beachball of death there was probably some corruption that had been building in the OS for a few days. It was either a subtle bug or it got hit by a cosmic ray.

mwot
29th December 2005, 09:43 AM
Ordinarily, I wouldn't consider this much of a problem - once in a while is acceptable. However, this has occurred at least 3 times in the last month - prior to that, there was no issue.

My iMac G5 forces a shutdown. This is where the whole screen turns a transparent grey, with a big powerbutton image in the centre and text along the lines of 'your computer has crashed. hold down the power button until the blimmin' thing switches off, then power back up'.

I don't know what is causing these shutdowns. When it happens, the fans spin like crazy and you can hear them from the other end of the house (and we have a big house!).

It happened again this morning, and my last action was simply to manually put the iMac to sleep. The only app I had running at the time was Mail and Launchbar.

Anyone else experiencing something similar and/or know why this occurring?

hawker
29th December 2005, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by mwot@Dec 29 2005, 09:13 AM
My iMac G5 forces a shutdown. This is where the whole screen turns a transparent grey, with a big powerbutton image in the centre and text along the lines of 'your computer has crashed. hold down the power button until the blimmin' thing switches off, then power back up'.
Kernal Panic. Basically something in your hardware is not working as it should, maybe RAM, maybe hard drive, maybe logic board. Check your logs and see if anything is said in there!

EDIT: Should tell you how to check logs just in case. Go to apple menu, go down to "about this mac" and head over to system profiler. Logs are in there ;)

applecollector
29th December 2005, 09:57 AM
What OS r u running?
I had the same problem on my emac but mine was constant and happened when i opened 2 or more programs.
I found out it was some conflict with the operating system and a program.
I did a clean install and all is well again & I'm writing this off my 1.25Ghz eMac with OS X 10.3.9 and no issues.

Silver
29th December 2005, 10:10 AM
Kernel panics usually have a definite cause. Can you think of something new you installed about a month ago? Extra RAM maybe? A new piece of software? Chances are, there is something new you've added to your iMac recently that is leading to this conflict.

mwot
29th December 2005, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by hawker@Dec 29 2005, 10:48 AM
EDIT: Should tell you how to check logs just in case. Go to apple menu, go down to "about this mac" and head over to system profiler. Logs are in there ;)


Your pre-empting this question is much appreciated! :D

applecollector - I'm running 10.4.x. I'm hoping it won't come down to a restore.

Regardless, I'll have to wait until I get back home from work tonight to check.

Thanx.

Currawong
29th December 2005, 11:22 AM
Merged topics, since I set up this sticky on kernel panics a while back.

marc
29th December 2005, 11:28 AM
What rev iMac?

Isn't this a known issue with the last gen of iMac G5s?
(A power supply issue that caused them to shut down unexpectedly)

mwot
29th December 2005, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by marc@Dec 29 2005, 12:28 PM
What rev iMac?

Isn't this a known issue with the last gen of iMac G5s?
(A power supply issue that caused them to shut down unexpectedly)
Mine's a rev B - 20" 2.0ghz.

I have added after-market RAM, but if that is the problem, I would have expected it to be an issue months ago as I installed the additional RAM only a week after getting the machine in May.

mwot
29th December 2005, 06:06 PM
Okay. I've found my system logs. So ... what is it that should tell me what the problem is ...? :)

EDIT: assuming I should be looking at the panic.log?? All gibberish to me.

chrome
7th January 2006, 06:57 PM
Uh, I'm not a kernel developer or anything, but I code in c for other platforms and this is interesting to me:



Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.GeForce(3.4.2)@0x92f000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x450000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.4)@0x463000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x498000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.4)@0x482000
com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x498000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x450000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.4)@0x463000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.4)@0x482000


Basically, programming anything - including a OS kernel - is all about making calls to a function ... which then calls another function ... and then that calls another function ... and so on.

A backtrace tells you which function the program died in, and what path was taken to get to that function.

The repeated references to graphics related drivers/hardware would indicate to me that rather being an issue with system RAM, its more likely to be an issue with the RAM included with the NVidia GPU, or the NVidia GPU itself.

As these components are soldered onto a machine's logic board (with the exception of the workstation class machines which use a PCI card), I would expect that if you send it to Apple for repair, they will determine that they need to replace the system logic board.

mwot
7th January 2006, 10:32 PM
Hmmm. Okay. Though, does this mean anything to anyone?


Backtrace:
0x002C720C 0x002C4894 0x005486EC 0x0003C744 0x000A9814
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.iokit.IOSCSIArchitectureModelFamily(1.4. 4)@0x53b000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x3A163A00)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x3AF62A00)
PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000; LR=0x00000000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.3.0: Mon Oct 3 20:04:04 PDT 2005; root:xnu-792.6.22.obj~2/RELEASE_PPC
panic(cpu 0 caller 0xFFFF0004): 0x400 - Inst access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00095698 0x00095BB0 0x0002683C 0x000A8304 0x000ABC80
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x3A163A00)
PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x40009030; DAR=0x010D8410; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x002C7270; R1=0x2205BD20; XCP=0x00000010 (0x400 - Inst access)
Backtrace:
0x002C720C 0x002C4894 0x005486EC 0x0003C744 0x000A9814
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.iokit.IOSCSIArchitectureModelFamily(1.4. 4)@0x53b000
Exception state (sv=0x3AF62A00)
PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000; LR=0x00000000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown)



This happened a little earlier this evening. All I did was try to put the iMac to sleep. In fact, of the times that this has happened, it seems to be (intermittently) when the iMac either attempts to or is put to sleep.

Muzza_77
8th January 2006, 06:04 AM
mwot I am pretty sure that it is a kernel error. It happened to my brothers iMac G3 every time he slept it with classic still open

chrome
18th January 2006, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by mwot@Jan 7 2006, 10:32 PM
This happened a little earlier this evening. All I did was try to put the iMac to sleep. In fact, of the times that this has happened, it seems to be (intermittently) when the iMac either attempts to or is put to sleep.
com.apple.iokit.IOSCSIArchitectureModelFamily(1.4. 4)@0x53b000

Something to do with disk access. May not indicate a hardware error - could just be a bug in the OS.

However. Do you have any third party drivers installed for anything at all, like a memory card reader or something like that?

mwot
19th January 2006, 06:33 AM
Do you mean like a flash card reader? Though I've had that for ages, and it didn't require any software to be loaded.

Is there some way I can see a list of programs that have been recently added to my system? I know I've installed a couple in recent times, though can't recall the timings - if I could find out the dates of these installs, I could see if it is a software related problem.

mechcon
2nd February 2006, 02:10 PM
yay... first kernel panic in months... :(

Peter Wells
3rd February 2006, 02:33 PM
hey,
a friend of mines new ibook is getting the ol' kernel panic. I'm sure it's software related cos the computer crashed while installing the quicktime mpeg-2 component. And the pnic has been happening ever since then. What should i suggest?

Thanks.

mwot
3rd February 2006, 04:27 PM
Up until last weekend, I still was getting kernel panics with increasing frequency on my iMac. However, last weekend when iTunes packed it in on me (it wouldn't launch - at all), and deleting the app and reinstalling it still didn't work as well as Repair Permissions, I went the Archive and Install option.

It's not ideal (took a good 3hrs or so, including the Software Updates and reinstallation of iLife 06), but I have not had any further kernel panics and of course iTunes is behaving itself too.

So, if none of the other suggestions in this thread help, I reckon an Archive and Install from your system disks is the sure fire method.

mmmmark
24th February 2006, 10:30 AM
First time poster from the USA, hopefully I'm welcome. Found this post via Google.

I've had a flood of kernel panics this week on my G4 Flat Panel 800 MHz iMac that I can't seem to get to stay away.

I had this identical problem about 6 months ago, for about two weeks straight. At that time I did all the normal housekeeping to no avail. I even did a complete reinstall of OSX.

I isolated the problem as hardware related--specifically the graphics processor that is soldered to the logic board (which on this imac is an odd, partially round board). In any case, i came to this conclusion because the computer would panic when booted from other OSes (i.e. Firewire drive, CD, etc). It was not only the OS on the hard drive.

Here is one of my latest kernel panic logs from this a.m. (between the lines):

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
panic(cpu 0): Apparent UniNorth Hang: AGP STATUS = 0x00000004

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00083498 0x0008397C 0x0001EDA4 0x009463C0 0x00946B3C 0x009305E0 0x0027E650 0x00280324
0x0007AC48 0x00021668 0x0001BCE8 0x0001C0F0 0x00094318 0x01507600
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.GeForce(3.4.2)@0x929000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x454000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.5)@0x467000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x49d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.5)@0x487000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2CF02280)
PC=0x952EB8B8; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0xB24BF000; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x952EB438; R1=0xBFFEE3D0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.9.0:
Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005; root:xnu/xnu-517.12.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is typical of what it gives me when it acts up. It is related to heat, but not necessarily ambient temperature of the room. It seems that certain functions that call the graphics processor a lot can cause it in a heart beat.

Last time, what fixed it for me was blowing out the unit very good with compressed air to remove all the dust. In theory, this must have helped it stay cooler.

OR, other posts I've read indicate that just moving the computer around can seat things better. For example, there is thermal paste on the board that is supposed to direct the heat through various "heat pipes" designed to dissipate the heat. One theory is that this paste dries out over time and fails to function adequately.

Who knows. I see that other types of computer are also having similar issues.

Several people have suggested RAM. While RAM can be flaky, I do not suspect it in my case as I have never messed with the RAM--bone stock 512MB straight from Apple. Also, RAM problems ususally manifest themselves more and more frequently until eventual complete failure.

It is possible that the soft/firm ware is not cooperating very well with this graphics chipset either. That could explain the problems across multiple models of computers. They DO NOT use the exact same board, so that is not the problem.

Anyone know if these individual files implicated (shown in log above) can be replaced with "clean" copies? These files are hidden and I'm not a Terminal whiz, but with a hint or two I bet I could do it. I'm considering installing the exact same up-to-date system on one of my firewire drives and then copying the "known good" files over to my main hard drive. Think it might help in case these files are deprecated?

Who knows. I don't have answers, but glad to find a forum of users that I can commiserate with.

whatamidoing
13th September 2006, 06:26 AM
I've been having problems with my iBook and I've been going through a few threads to see if I can find someone else with a similar problem. I think this is the closest but I don't think I have the issues some of you mentioned (eg heating or RAM?).

I have a 55GB drive, it was almost at capacity but I've cleaned it out with about 6GB free now.

Regardless though, I started having problems with my iBook a few days ago, culminating with a whole heap of crashes today (with a message telling me to hold down the power button to shut down), applications not starting when I click on it, and my iTunes completely crashing/corrupted. I had to download iTunes again from the Apple website, but after installing, it crashed too.

I tried running disk utility First Aid and this was the message:

Verifying volume “Macintosh HD”
Checking HFS Plus volume.
Checking Extents Overflow file.
Checking Catalog file.
Invalid extent entry
Invalid extent entry
Invalid extent entry
Invalid key length
The volume Macintosh HD needs to be repaired.

Error: The underlying task reported failure on exit


1 HFS volume checked
Volume needs repair


What's going on??

Incidently, I have a Mac OSX Version 10.4.7, 1.42GHz PowerPC G4, 1.5GB DDR SDRAM, 14inch iBook. Please let me know if I can provide more information, I'm not very computer savvy though.

whatamidoing
13th September 2006, 06:54 AM
arrggh it's getting worse by the hour. Less and less applications are working now. The latest one is MSN Messenger - when I click on it, it immediately tells it "quit unexpectedly".

This is stressing me out.

pipsqeek
13th September 2006, 07:26 AM
Stop stressing out, and just take it to an Apple repair centre. :)

Then you can stress out about how long it's going to take to get it fixed.

I bought myself a G4 450 tower when I wne through the iBook saga. They're only $100 on ebay now. At the time, I paid $650.

pipsqeek

whatamidoing
14th September 2006, 12:07 AM
Hi pipsqeek, I can't afford the cost for the Applecentre to repair and would like to avoid if I can.

I've tried inserting the Hardware Test CD and booted up from there but it comes up with a grey screen saying that there is a memory problem, and when I type "mac-boot" it goes into another screen and stays there indefinitely.

Does this mean it's a hardware problem or a software problem?

I've tried starting up from my Install Disc 1 by pressing the "C" key at startup but it refuses to start up from the CD. It starts up as per normal.

Any ideas anyone?

Mac Aid
14th September 2006, 08:27 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(whatamidoing &#064; Sep 14 2006, 12&#58;07 AM) 213679</div>

I&#39;ve tried inserting the Hardware Test CD and booted up from there but it comes up with a grey screen saying that there is a memory problem, and when I type "mac-boot" it goes into another screen and stays there indefinitely.

Does this mean it&#39;s a hardware problem or a software problem?
[/b]

If it wont run the hardware test, it sounds like a hardware problem. You might try resetting the firmware before running it again, but in all likelyhood it&#39;s a hardware issue.

jerrah
14th September 2006, 09:43 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(whatamidoing &#064; Sep 14 2006, 12&#58;07 AM) 213679</div>

it comes up with a grey screen saying that there is a memory problem, and when I type "mac-boot" it goes into another screen and stays there indefinitely.[/b]Have you tried swapping the ram?

pipsqeek
14th September 2006, 09:59 AM
If you can&#39;t even get that far, then it is more then likely hardware. Considering the fact that "software" hasn&#39;t booted yet (Software, being OS X).

As jarrah says, try removing the RAM or replacing it with different RAM to see what happens.

Cheers
pipsqeek

macgrrl
20th September 2006, 01:00 AM
I recently started a thread about this happening see here- http://forums.appletalk.com.au/index.php?showtopic=25569
and after the first panic it was fine havent had a problem. But we bought a wireless router today to hook up my boyf&#39;s PB and it has done something to my computer. it is getting numerous KP&#39;s, freezing up, running slowly just from plugging the router in, not even installing the disc. I dont know what to do, What can i do to prevent it? Have i done something wrong? Its a belkin wireless router that says it supports macs.

pipsqeek
20th September 2006, 06:54 AM
Not sure if you have connected to the network via wireless or through the ethernet router on the wireless router.

I&#39;d say there is something wrong with either your Airport Extreme card or the logic board it&#39;s attached to.

Time to take a look if there&#39;s any warranty left on it the machine.

I assume your BF&#39;s computer is fine, just yours is causing an issue?

Pop in the hardware test CD and see what it comes up with.

Other then that, it&#39;s off to an Authorised Apple Repair Centre. :(

macgrrl
20th September 2006, 11:51 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pipsqeek &#064; Sep 20 2006, 06&#58;54 AM) 215872</div>

Not sure if you have connected to the network via wireless or through the ethernet router on the wireless router.

I&#39;d say there is something wrong with either your Airport Extreme card or the logic board it&#39;s attached to.

Time to take a look if there&#39;s any warranty left on it the machine.

I assume your BF&#39;s computer is fine, just yours is causing an issue?

Pop in the hardware test CD and see what it comes up with.

Other then that, it&#39;s off to an Authorised Apple Repair Centre. :(
[/b]

the router is connected to my computer via ethernet, hes got the airport card in his PB. We didnt recieve a hardware test with the computer, and we still have 6 weeks of warranty left. Is there somewhere you can download the software test? seems to be running okay at the moment (i&#39;m on the PB, the imac is copying a large file across to it with no glitches)

I also have not alot of Gig left, space wise. Would that also freak out the imac?
And also only 128 ram. But i&#39;m hesitant to get more incase it kills it completely.