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View Full Version : MacBook Logic Board Replacement [Rant]



Revolution
16th May 2007, 10:30 PM
Hi,

As you may have read in this forum, I had numerous problems with my Rev A MacBook, which cost me a total of about $3600 in July last year. This cost includes the maxed out the RAM to 2GB which cost about $300 from the Apple Centre, APP for nearly $500, and some other stuff I bought with the MacBook that amounted to a couple of hundred dollars. My original complaint thread can be found here:

http://forums.mactalk.com.au/showthread.php?t=29119

Anyway, on Monday I received a call from the tech bay of the Apple Centre from which I bought this MacBook. The guy told me, rather bluntly that the logic board was the problem because it had some corrosion, and it needed to be replaced. He then proceeded to tell me that I would need to buy the replacement logic board at a cost of about $2200. He said this was because normally, the Apple Centre would return the broken logic board to Apple and swap it for a new one, which they would then put into my MacBook while Apple repaired the broken logic board to be used as a replacement. But in my case the logic board can't be repaired by Apple, so I would have to pay to get the new logic board.

When the tech guy said the corrosion on the MacBook must have been caused by liquid spilling onto the logic board, I said I had never spilled anything on my MacBook - which is the truth. I've always treated my MacBook like a baby. What annoys me most is that when I originally sent my MacBook to get fixed for the black 'x' battery problem (as you can read in my other thread), they snapped in a new battery, thinking that was the problem, without checking the logic board. I got the machine back and it was still faulty, and I immediately put it back into the box after taking it out, plugging it in and turning it on. (It turned on the shut down again, the black 'x' icon was still present). This can all be read in my other thread. So basically, the tech bay did not do their job properly the first time, and now after two returns and a few months of not having my MacBook, they tell my it will cost me $2200 to get my machine working again. Perhaps if they had done a more thorough job the first time they may have seen the logic board had beginnings of corrosion and caught the problem before it became worse?

I realise that it is my word against that of the Apple Centre. But what is the use of taking out APP and going to the trouble of sending my machine back twice if this is the sort of attitude and explanation I get.

One other thing that frustrates me is that the Apple Centre I bought the MacBook from is one at which my family has been dealing for a few years. My father bought his Dual 2Ghz G5 + 20" ACD from them in 2004, I have bought a 60GB 5G iPod from them, and my brother has bought an iPod mini and an iPod nano from them. Besides that we have also been repeat customers for other products and software over the years.

This whole situation just smacks of an unwillingless to try and go the extra mile to support a loyal customer. As a family who has been using Macs since 1996, neither me or anyone in my family have never had this sort of thing happen after owning a Power Mac 7200, a 7500, a Power Mac G4, a PowerBook G4, two eMacs, an iBook and the aforementioned G5. (not all bought from this store mind you - we used to buy at Status Graph years and years ago).

Also, as a cadet journalist who is earning about $16,000 a year before tax, being told that my $3600 MacBook (now worth about $1000 or so, if that, with the release of the Rev C today) requires another $2200 to get working again...well...I guess you can see why I'm slightly annoyed.

decryption
16th May 2007, 10:32 PM
So it's under warranty, and they aren't fixing it based on the fact they think you spilt liquid on it which damaged the logic board? What a cop out :(

SRG
16th May 2007, 10:34 PM
I still don't get how while you under the 12 month warranty they are saying you need to pay...I think a call to Apple Australia might be a good bet here with the name of the store.

kim jong il
16th May 2007, 10:40 PM
I'd be feeling pretty hard done by too, especially having taken out Applecare. Get back in touch with them I reckon but try to be polite even still. I've seen circuit boards in the past with corrosion that had no apparent immediate cause (i.e no other evidence of spills in a case).

Nevets_Anderson
16th May 2007, 10:51 PM
If you feel done over cheated etc, you might want to talk to apple public relations tell them your side of the story - get names dates make notes form all and every the telephone conversation - (type it up like case notes so that if other people get involved you can email them your story without 2 much trouble) tell them you are unhappy with this situation and you would like it resolved. Let them know that you have looked after the machine and that the only time it has been out of your posession was when it was shipped back to Apple.

Be calm persistant and document.

It's a pain but with time they usually come to the party.

Good luck

Nevets

yinyang
16th May 2007, 10:52 PM
Hi,

Anyway, on Monday I received a call from the tech bay of the Apple Centre from which I bought this MacBook. The guy told me, rather bluntly that the logic board was the problem because it had some corrosion, and it needed to be replaced. He then proceeded to tell me that I would need to buy the replacement logic board at a cost of about $2200. He said this was because normally, the Apple Centre would return the broken logic board to Apple and swap it for a new one, which they would then put into my MacBook while Apple repaired the broken logic board to be used as a replacement. But in my case the logic board can't be repaired by Apple, so I would have to pay to get the new logic board.



since when did it matter whether Apple can re-use a logic board be the deciding factor in whether yours gets replaced under warranty...!

i never realised Apple based their repairs on re-usage, or that reseller has some other reason for not doing the work perhaps!!

anyway looking at the history going with your problems, corrosion sounds like a pretty lame excuse for something they should have identified a while ago!

hope it gets worked out properly :)

jerrah
16th May 2007, 11:59 PM
Apart from the refusal to help you with your problem, the thing that staggers me the most is that a replacement logic board costs more than a brand new machine!

It's not like Apple is a third party repair company subject to the whims of their supplier, they manufacture the parts! How can their replacement parts cost more than a new machine. :confused:

"Sorry, we know you're after a new windscreen for your car but we're afraid you have stonechips and it's not covered under warranty. You can buy a new windscreen but that costs 1/3 more than the original purchase price of the vehicle"

thorevenge
17th May 2007, 12:22 AM
Logic boards are expensive.

I know this sucks, but try to look at this from the service depts POV: - if they have any reason to believe that the machine has been treated poorly (this includes iPods), due to the nature of the service agreement from Apple the service dept does NOT get any recompense from Apple.

Its really sucky but true. I am not saying its right, I'm just saying I doubt its case of them deciding to not want to help you. And like all warranty returns Apple probably has their own techs verify all parts replaced under warranty (the ISP I work for does for modems) and if you keep sending non-faulty stuff back too often for too long you get in trouble for it.

I'm not 100% sure Apple's policy on this (or their entire warranty returns for that matter - I only have some knowledge from reparing my own machines and chatting to the techs) but as noted, it's probably a case of they can't afford the $2200 either.

gelfie
17th May 2007, 12:27 AM
Apart from the refusal to help you with your problem, the thing that staggers me the most is that a replacement logic board costs more than a brand new machine!

Selling a new Macbook looks a whole lot better on a spreadsheet that repairing a dodgy macbook does.

iSlayer
17th May 2007, 12:56 AM
If its under warranty and you haven't damaged it then dont take no for an answer.
Talk to apple directly and find a new repairer if your current one continues to refuse to help.

yinyang
17th May 2007, 01:03 AM
Logic boards are expensive.

I know this sucks, but try to look at this from the service depts POV: - if they have any reason to believe that the machine has been treated poorly (this includes iPods), due to the nature of the service agreement from Apple the service dept does NOT get any recompense from Apple.



in this case it sounds as if the 'reason' is rather tenuous and convenient, especially since the problem seems to have arisen several months ago and was incorrectly identified as a faulty battery, when correct diagnosis would have shown that it may not have been. so perhaps to cover up for that mistake they're trying to make this one go away so that they don't get found out....?

btw i'm not haivng a go at you (a nordic god!), just playing devil's advocate to your devil's advocate...!;)

hawker
17th May 2007, 07:25 AM
Seriously, go to a new repair centre, that's complete crap.

purana
17th May 2007, 08:31 AM
A battery leak could cause corrosion against the logic board... wonder if they explored this as being possible. I'd fight it and continue to fight it, get another opinion and even be in contact with Apple directly (customer service).

Linux_insidev2
17th May 2007, 08:33 AM
You'll need to contact Apple directly,

If they were to return that part to apple they would be charged fully for the new part thus leaving the service agent out of pocket.

Logic board corrosion usually has a reason, do you live close to any large bodies of water? also see if the AASP can tell you where the corrosion is, i'd be interested to know.

Linux_insidev2
17th May 2007, 08:35 AM
A battery leak could cause corrosion against the logic board... wonder if they explored this as being possible. I'd fight it and continue to fight it, get another opinion and even be in contact with Apple directly (customer service).

the inner L-shaped bracket, the underside of the keyboard and the battery would all have telltale signs of corrosion if this was the case.

jerrah
17th May 2007, 08:42 AM
When I worked at a repair place years ago you could always pick the people who had fancy houses overlooking the ocean: Machines no older than 12 months with visible corrosion damage to the mainboard.

Is the OP living within tripping distance of the ocean?

Goodbye
17th May 2007, 08:49 AM
I don't think the Southern Highlands are near the ocean, but I could be wrong?

purana
17th May 2007, 08:52 AM
I don't think the Southern Highlands are near the ocean, but I could be wrong?

Totally correct. Close to me though :) or atleast a little bit south of me.

Revolution
17th May 2007, 10:03 AM
Thanks for all of the replies guys - it makes me feel a lot better having put this issue into the public forum and having received several supportive responses.


A battery leak could cause corrosion against the logic board... wonder if they explored this as being possible. I'd fight it and continue to fight it, get another opinion and even be in contact with Apple directly (customer service).
Now you mention it, I also remember that the tech guy said (very briefly) there was a small amount corrosion on the battery connector – could this be evidence of a leaking battery? But he didn't mention anything about there being camage to the underside of the keyboard.


I don't think the Southern Highlands are near the ocean, but I could be wrong?
You're correct – the Southern Highlands is about 45 minutes from the ocean at the closest point. But it does get very cold and damp here, and fortunately we do get pretty frequent rain. Still, is it really possible that this type of environment could cause corrosion?

So anyway, I guess I have two options now. I can ask about at a couple of other Apple Centres first to see if they would be able to get a replacement logic board in for me; or I call up Apple directly and tell them the situation and see if they would be willing to help.

Either way, I don’t want to waste too much time because I need my MacBook back, both for work and because I miss it :/

Goodbye
17th May 2007, 10:06 AM
I'd go to Apple direct. Tell them you've had a few problems with your Macbook and you'd like it fixed. You'd be better off doing this than going to other places, I think.

Revolution
17th May 2007, 11:44 PM
Okay, I've decided I am going to ring Apple Australia tomorrow morning. Any ideas, tips or advice on how I should best argue my case?

thorevenge
18th May 2007, 01:07 AM
First and foremost I don't know what Apple will say. My iBook had a crack in it that I swear I didn't do and pretty much know the service centre did but Apple's response was 'find another repairer'.

I'd get another service centre's details from Apple first and mention that you aren't getting any love from your current service provider. Don't mention names. Also mention that this is because the current service centre believes that there is some corrosion on the logic board and whats the deal with this kind of thing.

You may get someone who can answer what this might mean. Volunteer as much info as possible as the guy on the phone might be able to tell you where you stand in terms of 'damage' to the board and the validity of warranty on its replacement, especially given you live in a damp area. And I think the queries relating to close to the ocean was in reference to a high salt content in the air as opposed to just pure moisture.

Last thing, remember the word "Limited" applies to all Apple warranties.

Good luck.

Revolution
18th May 2007, 01:38 PM
Just got off the a 45 minute phone call with with Apple. Basically it comes down to this: they are going to escalate the MacBook from the Apple Centre I bought the machine from (where it is currently being held in the tech bay) and get it sent to Apple themselves, where the "senior techs" are going to look at it and make their diagnosis.

Then, whatever they say, it Apple's "100% official response" to the situation, and either I will get a replacement logic board or I will have to pay for one myself. If it's the latter then I'm going to say: screw Apple, I've had enough, and goodbye. (I'll probably see what I can get for the rest of the machine for parts to soften my $3600 loss).

Edit: I just called the tech bay at the Apple Centre, and apparently they are able to install a working logic board if I bring one in. I was thinking of searching eBay or maybe finding someone who has a MacBook with a smashed screen or something that is also selling their machine for parts...

hawker
18th May 2007, 01:42 PM
in theory unless Apple can prove it's spillage from you (ie, prove say its red wine) they should replace.

Revolution
18th May 2007, 01:45 PM
in theory unless Apple can prove it's spillage from you (ie, prove say its red wine) they should replace.The Apple guy said the tech guys at the Apple Centre said it looked like water, and that even if it was because rain had gotten inside it or something like that, t would still be my fault (ie. even if it wasn't a glass of water that was spilt).

thorevenge
18th May 2007, 02:03 PM
At least you are getting somewhere.

I know you mentioned damp - I am now wondering if perhaps we are seeing something unusual based on your residential location.

This might be far fetched, but maybe the heat that is generated internally is causing condensation due to the higher humidity of your premises?

hawker
18th May 2007, 02:04 PM
The Apple guy said the tech guys at the Apple Centre said it looked like water, and that even if it was because rain had gotten inside it or something like that, t would still be my fault (ie. even if it wasn't a glass of water that was spilt).

Hopefully Apple will give you the benefit of the doubt. I'd say they'd only question it, if you had a bad track record of weird issues with your machines...

jerrah
18th May 2007, 02:24 PM
And I think the queries relating to close to the ocean was in reference to a high salt content in the air as opposed to just pure moisture.Correct, salt spray in the air is extremely damaging to electronic equipment! :(

Living somewhere moist wouldn't be a huge factor.. I guess it depends on HOW moist we're talking.

Linux_insidev2
18th May 2007, 02:53 PM
in theory unless Apple can prove it's spillage from you (ie, prove say its red wine) they should replace.

In practice it's sort of the other way around, remember that boards don't corrode by themselves.

Revolution
18th May 2007, 03:26 PM
Well, the end result of all my discussions today is that Apple will call me back either this Monday or Tuesday letting me know of their decision.

Whatever happens, I'd like to know if anyone knows where I could possibly buy a logic board for less than what Apple would charge (if Apple says I have to pay them or take it back still broken).

Does anyone have a broken MacBook with a good logic board they may be able to sell, or know of someone who sells MacBook logic boards? Or would anyone be interested in my machine for parts, if it comes down to that?

jerrah
18th May 2007, 03:37 PM
I don't think there would be a supplier with a ready supply of budget logic boards. You could try ebay.

yinyang
18th May 2007, 03:57 PM
make sure you remind Apple that your Macbook could have been showing signs of dodgy logic board back when your battery was replaced, and that the Apple REseller never picked up on that - i still find it rather dubious that a single drop of water can somehow make it through the casing and cause such specific damage to the logic board....wouldn't Macbook owning people living on the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney then be reporting numerous logic board failures....!?

and for the customer have to prove that they are not at fault....that sucks :(

madmacs
18th May 2007, 04:04 PM
Just another thought...

Did you purchase the Macbook on a credit card that provides damaged goods replacement warranty or have a home content insurance that may be able to cover the cost? Sounds like buying a brand new one cheaper than repairing it.

I would still complain as loud as possible to Apple Australia. This is crap service (reminds me of some car insurance company...).

Angsty
18th May 2007, 04:19 PM
Frankly, I'd also be lodging a complaint with Consumer Affairs. The product you bought seems to be defective and you didn't get what you paid for: a working MacBook.

This is not a throw-away gadget you bought at a $2 Shop; you have spent thousands of dollars on this product and should expect a higher quality product that WORKS.

Also, see if Consumer Affairs can investigate why the spare parts are priced so high - who is rorting the product chain - and how can they be stopped?

Apple has already had a batch of bad PR with their service standards with repairs for iPods - maybe they need another kick in the proverbial to make them remember they have responsibilities , and legal obligations, with the products they make and sell.

Revolution
18th May 2007, 04:24 PM
Just another thought...

Did you purchase the Macbook on a credit card that provides damaged goods replacement warranty or have a home content insurance that may be able to cover the cost? Sounds like buying a brand new one cheaper than repairing it.The Apple tech service guy I spoke to actually suggested (off the record) that I look into that type of thing, which I'm going to.


Also, see if Consumer Affairs can investigate why the spare parts are priced so high - who is rorting the product chain - and how can they be stopped?It is ridiculous. $2200 is not only roughly twice what the machine is worth these days, but to also nearly the cost of a similar specced new MacBook? :rolleyes:

Revolution
20th May 2007, 09:01 PM
Okay, I have a plan (sort of). I'm thinking of buying a Rev A MacBook from eBay for about $1050 here (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/13-3-White-Macbook-CoreDuo-1-83Ghz-1GB-ram-60GB-HD_W0QQitemZ230132406377QQihZ013QQcategoryZ4606QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem). then getting the tech guys at the Apple Centre to take the logic board out of that and put it into my MacBook.

Then, I would look to sell the eBay MacBook for parts, and if I can this will help to reduce the net cost of getting the working logic board from it.

Any opinions on whether this sounds like a good idea?

Edit: As you can see, that MacBook is a 1.83Ghz model. Is the logic board any different to those found in the 2Ghz models (which mine is)?

Linux_insidev2
20th May 2007, 09:20 PM
Frankly, I'd also be lodging a complaint with Consumer Affairs. The product you bought seems to be defective and you didn't get what you paid for: a working MacBook.



The product is defective due to corrosion, apple are investigating the case to see what the cause of the corrosion is, if it is deemed to be user damage then tough luck.

Metal does not corrode itself, and unless you can prove it's because of a manufacturing defect then there will be no coverage.

You have to ask yourself, if you didn't damage the computer with liquid, who have you lent the machine to?

funkmaster_dan
20th May 2007, 10:02 PM
Metal does not corrode itself, and unless you can prove it's because of a manufacturing defect then there will be no coverage.


Actually yes it does, pretty much any metal will oxidise when exposed to the atmosphere. Although I would assume apples logic boards use a corrosion resistant coating or something similar to prevent things like this happening. Perhaps the corrosion protection wasn't propery applied at the factory?

macsonny
23rd May 2007, 07:34 PM
How can their replacement parts cost more than a new machine.

Um, think about it in the context of a car. Spares for a car are expensive. In fact, if you built a car using the spare parts - the car would probably cost you 10 times more then if you bought the car new and whole.

The reason - it costs money to hold spares.

Just the way of the world unfortunately. Spares for everything are expensive!

jerrah
23rd May 2007, 08:10 PM
Car parts tend to be large and vastly varied between models. I can also buy pretty much any parts for my 'exotic' european car cheaply from the USA so they obviously don't have high storage costs over there.

In comparison we're talking about a logic board which is still in production and I could probably fit 10+ of them in an A4 printer paper box. They're still coming off a production line in China and if one missed a macbook enclosure and accidently made it into a courier package I imagine the cost to purchase the board as a 'part' would be in the realm of $300-500 maximum.

If I went into a computer shop and bought the logic board for $800 I would feel like I was being ripped, but we're talking about what? $2000?

If this was a G3 iBook several generations out of production I could accept that new spare parts could cost more than the original price of the laptop.

In summary to your point of "it costs money to hold spares" they wouldn't have to hold spares, they could grab one off the production line. :p

Spares don't have to be expensive, for any given thing I can pretty much always find a trade outlet somewhere in the world that is happy to sell them for much cheaper bar extremely specialist parts such as a macbook logic board.

Mctastic
23rd May 2007, 08:27 PM
my sympathy sir. cut your loses, don't spend anything on it. if you want to make money off spare, parts, .. sell as is.
common parts that are worth good $$ on your mac: LCD(short of $900,.. though to sell to somebody, $600 be a fair deal), .. memory & hard drive. at least from this you will be half way to a new one.....

on the other end, .. make a case with Apple customer relations. if you feel this support centre hasn't done a good enough job, take to one of many other service centres & speak to somebody willing to help, .. and Apple,... whos arm can be twisted ;)

madmacs
23rd May 2007, 08:47 PM
Okay, I have a plan (sort of). I'm thinking of buying a Rev A MacBook from eBay for about $1050 here (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/13-3-White-Macbook-CoreDuo-1-83Ghz-1GB-ram-60GB-HD_W0QQitemZ230132406377QQihZ013QQcategoryZ4606QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem). then getting the tech guys at the Apple Centre to take the logic board out of that and put it into my MacBook.

Then, I would look to sell the eBay MacBook for parts, and if I can this will help to reduce the net cost of getting the working logic board from it.

Any opinions on whether this sounds like a good idea?

Edit: As you can see, that MacBook is a 1.83Ghz model. Is the logic board any different to those found in the 2Ghz models (which mine is)?

Just buy a new one. Not worth the hassle and risk of buying another rev A macbook. Some other unfortunate thing may happen even if you replace the logic board.

The latest core2duo macbook can be had for $1400 (2GHz), $1650 (2.16GHz) and $1975 (2.16GHz/Blk).

If you can't recoup costs from some source and not successful with Apple about the warranty claim, the safest and most painless way is to sell the existing macbook for parts and buy a new one.

Good luck!

(BTW, I wasn't suggesting putting in a fraudulent insurance claim...)

Revolution
23rd May 2007, 09:48 PM
I'm getting my MacBook fixed by the Apple Centre for $700. There's a guy who can get some parts in for me from the USA from somewhere (don't ask where) and they're going to put a brand new logic board in my machine. I would have bought a brand new Core 2 Duo machine, but money is tight and I'd rather pay $700 than $1400. ;)

Linux_insidev2
23rd May 2007, 09:55 PM
Actually yes it does, pretty much any metal will oxidise when exposed to the atmosphere. Although I would assume apples logic boards use a corrosion resistant coating or something similar to prevent things like this happening. Perhaps the corrosion protection wasn't propery applied at the factory?

Well of course, but it would take a lot longer to corrode than it has.

The Macbook MLB's are indeed coated.

Linux_insidev2
23rd May 2007, 09:56 PM
I'm getting my MacBook fixed by the Apple Centre for $700. There's a guy who can get some parts in for me from the USA from somewhere (don't ask where) and they're going to put a brand new logic board in my machine. I would have bought a brand new Core 2 Duo machine, but money is tight and I'd rather pay $700 than $1400. ;)

Why don't you just get him to source a Core 2 Duo Mainboard for you? they come with the CPU

silverdreamer
23rd May 2007, 10:07 PM
Just been reading of your issues with your logic board repair. I have a dual core macbook purchased 23 dec. he logic board died in feb and the techs at Next Byte replaced it under warranty in 48 hrs. No Probs. see if they have a store near you. (Just looked, Baulkham hills or North Ryde would be the closest)

As far as apple is concerned, I find from past experience that the sqeakiest wheel gets the most oil, and I suggest you continue to argue your case with Apple, but don't talk to the lacky's, call the swithchboard and ask to speak to the managing director or whatever the cheif honkies handle is, and tell him your story, dont waste time explaining the reason for your call to anyone other than the head guy, or his direct assistant. Might take some time on hold, and a lot of calls, but be persisant and you may be pleasantly suprised. Drive down to the head office at French's Forest if you have the inclination. I had reason to do so back in 2001, and I amhappy to say I got the result I wanted. (But be prepared, take a book and your i-Pod.

Good luck.

Revolution
23rd May 2007, 10:23 PM
Why don't you just get him to source a Core 2 Duo Mainboard for you? they come with the CPUWould it work even though my machine is only a Core Duo?

Linux_insidev2
23rd May 2007, 10:30 PM
Would it work even though my machine is only a Core Duo?

I'm not 100% certain it will fit, but the processor and everything are soldered on.

if it fits in the case it'll work.

Mctastic
24th May 2007, 05:21 PM
yeah, only thing that may be different is your keyboard, .. ibut if you have to bye a c2d topcase, it's about $180

trailblazer
24th May 2007, 06:40 PM
I have a CoreDuo 2.0GHZ logic board... PM me an offer I can't refuse!

iclint
31st May 2007, 01:51 PM
G'day

Same thing happened to my system, X over the battery, battery not recharging. Took it in, it's not the battery, told me I spilt something into the system, a total load of crap.

Gave up on it, just use it plugged in now.

Am going to take it into the Nextbyte soon, my 12 month thing runs out 18/6 but all my uni exams are coming up, arrhhhh!

Haha, these Macbooks are pretty poorly made, have had a few mates have problems with them...

Revolution
31st May 2007, 03:35 PM
G'day

Same thing happened to my system, X over the battery, battery not recharging. Took it in, it's not the battery, told me I spilt something into the system, a total load of crap.

Gave up on it, just use it plugged in now.

Am going to take it into the Nextbyte soon, my 12 month thing runs out 18/6 but all my uni exams are coming up, arrhhhh!

Haha, these Macbooks are pretty poorly made, have had a few mates have problems with them...Mine didn't even work plugged in - it'd just shut off after a few seconds.

Anyway, I should have my MacBook back next week, all fixed, yay!