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View Full Version : Poor displays on C2D MBPs



generik
9th November 2006, 08:55 PM
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1150

Sigh, why do Apple products always have problems one way or the other?

Byrd
9th November 2006, 09:04 PM
Sigh, why do Apple products always have problems one way or the other?

To be blunt, they don't. Like all Apple products, of the thousands of each model sold, you'll only ever hear about the problems some a few people have with their hardware, not the vast majority of customers that have no problems at all.

When does someone get onto the Apple Discussions, even Mactalk, with sheer praise for their machine? :)

JB

generik
9th November 2006, 09:15 PM
To be blunt, they don't. Like all Apple products, of the thousands of each model sold, you'll only ever hear about the problems some a few people have with their hardware, not the vast majority of customers that have no problems at all.

When does someone get onto the Apple Discussions, even Mactalk, with sheer praise for their machine? :)

JB

No, the trouble is since getting the machine I knew something was wrong with the display, but since I am not a graphics professional I couldn't express it. But once I read those posts on Apple's discussion forums by people who are the real "pros" the Macbook Pros are meant for it all became apparent.

Quite ironically my last Powerbook (the final G4 before the Intel switch) had those dodgey LCD panels with little lines all over them too. It seems like the "pro" in the Macbook Pro is really quite a farce, because you can barely use these lousy poor colour saturation panels to watch a movie, and likewise if you are doing real work the shimmering effect will drive your eyes nuts 2-3 hours down.

It's quite frustrating really.

forgie
9th November 2006, 09:15 PM
Every non mac PC I have ever owned had "problems" - I just took it as par for the course when buying consumer computer gear. People have a strange perception that because it's Apple somehow it must be superior to the rest of the industry - it might be true in design, but it's not so true in manufacturing.

I won't bore you with my list of PC problems over the years, but let me just say that in my personal experience, Apple products have been better then the competition in terms of reliability and build quality.

generik
9th November 2006, 09:18 PM
Every non mac PC I have ever owned had "problems" - I just took it as par for the course when buying consumer computer gear. People have a strange perception that because it's Apple somehow it must be superior to the rest of the industry - it might be true in design, but it's not so true in manufacturing.


I suppose you are right, at least this machine feels way superior build quality wise compared to PC laptops I've owned.

The lack of options (and in this case LCD options) is frustrating indeed though. I know I will certainly appreciate a better screen as I stare into this hours on end.

Mikey
9th November 2006, 10:28 PM
I love my Rev B 12" G4 powerbook Its grouse. The battery packed up after 21/2 years but apple replaced it in 4 days with the tricare warrenty, so there is a happy story. perhaps we should start a happy story thread to balance the naysayers out there??!!

generik
10th November 2006, 06:46 AM
I love my Rev B 12" G4 powerbook Its grouse. The battery packed up after 21/2 years but apple replaced it in 4 days with the tricare warrenty, so there is a happy story. perhaps we should start a happy story thread to balance the naysayers out there??!!

Isn't a battery considered to be a consumable?

Btw I did a search on Tricare and the only link I got is some special Uni of Sydney store. Is it some special warranty coverage?

decryption
10th November 2006, 07:17 AM
Tricare was the warranty given to educational purchases a while ago (about 2 years ago I think). It came with 3 years warranty instead of 1 year as well as the regular educational discount. Apple have since stopped Tricare, and removed the educational discount from resellers :(

Thom
10th November 2006, 08:15 AM
People have a strange perception that because it's Apple somehow it must be superior to the rest of the industry - it might be true in design, but it's not so true in manufacturing.

Apple WAS superior not too long ago but in the last 3-4 years they've become a very average indeed. Sad is the only word for it.

generik
10th November 2006, 09:13 AM
Apple WAS superior not too long ago but in the last 3-4 years they've become a very average indeed. Sad is the only word for it.

At least their prices have become more average as well, no? ;)

Currawong
10th November 2006, 10:00 AM
There are a few things going on here, one is the pressure on Apple to lower their hardware prices. The second is the even greater mass-manufacture of components, such as LCD screens.

Apple is using the same components as PC manufacturers. I can't say that Apple has more or less issues than any other maker, but we do expect a higher quality of computer from them. We do know that Apple take design flaws seriously, but are exceptionally poor at communicating anything until the decision is made to start replacing machines.

The rule for me has always been - test anything you buy thoroughly as soon as you get it and ensure it has no defects. If any defects appear, you get a new machine if it's returned within 7 days.

generik
10th November 2006, 10:05 AM
I've had fairly good experiences with AppleCare thus far, but some claim Dell provides superior technical support. Is that really the case?

William
10th November 2006, 10:13 AM
If I'm correct there are several levels of Dell service, GOLD Service gets you techinical phone support with australians (you have to pay a lot extra) normal support is directed to Indian call centres.

William

supa007
10th November 2006, 10:40 AM
I think ppl are expecting way too much from Apple. You can't have a slim design, with bright and beautiful display, offering good battery life all at the same time, something's gotta give. I don't think there's anything wrong with my LCD (lucky no dead pixels). I'm yet to see any laptops with IPS or MVA/PVA panels, therefore not the best colour reproduction, and I haven't seen any that's as bright and even anywhere near as bright as a desktop LCD. If Apple had fulfilled the above requirements, then I think MBP wouldn't be 1" thick and last 3hr on battery power.

generik
10th November 2006, 12:00 PM
I think ppl are expecting way too much from Apple. You can't have a slim design, with bright and beautiful display, offering good battery life all at the same time, something's gotta give. I don't think there's anything wrong with my LCD (lucky no dead pixels). I'm yet to see any laptops with IPS or MVA/PVA panels, therefore not the best colour reproduction, and I haven't seen any that's as bright and even anywhere near as bright as a desktop LCD. If Apple had fulfilled the above requirements, then I think MBP wouldn't be 1" thick and last 3hr on battery power.

Not true.

The Sony VAIOs are said to sport LED backlit LCDs. Since Apple always goes on and on about how innovative they are (and their prices seem to reflect their innovation) you'd imagine them to be the first to do that.

But no, not only do we end up with crap notebooks for the good part of a year (whiney/moo/RSS) and when they finally seem to get it right they still can't deliver a high quality product with high quality parts.

It really makes me wonder sometimes.

Project x86 is looking good at times.

forgie
10th November 2006, 01:02 PM
Yeah, I bet project x86 is looking good. I just read a review here (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3049&review=Sony+VAIO+SZ270P%2FC+Notebook+-+VGN-SZ270P%2FC) on the Vaio SZ2 - which looks mostly comparable to a macbook (although it has a case more comparable to a MBP - not to say the MB case is bad). It costs $3000 USD. It has less ports then a Macbook (no video out other then VGA, no optical audio in/out), and it costs more then twice as much. But at least you get an LED backlit LCD! Woohoo, let's all go buy Sony laptops!

:rolleyes:

generik
10th November 2006, 02:27 PM
Yeah, I bet project x86 is looking good. I just read a review here (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3049&review=Sony+VAIO+SZ270P%2FC+Notebook+-+VGN-SZ270P%2FC) on the Vaio SZ2 - which looks mostly comparable to a macbook (although it has a case more comparable to a MBP - not to say the MB case is bad). It costs $3000 USD. It has less ports then a Macbook (no video out other then VGA, no optical audio in/out), and it costs more then twice as much. But at least you get an LED backlit LCD! Woohoo, let's all go buy Sony laptops!

:rolleyes:

I find fanboi posts like these very amusing.

When people make similar arguments against Macs, we will hear arguments like "Oh... the Macbook Pro is under an inch thick!", blah blah blah.

For the sake of "under an inch thick" you pay more than twice of a Dell, lose a dual layer drive (for early 2006 models), and put up with overheating issues. Great compromise :cool:

The Vaio SZ2 by the same token weights in at 70% of the weight of a Mac, is made with carbon fibre (mind you, these are extremely expensive right now), and has an innovative GPU switching system.

Oh nevermind that!

forgie
10th November 2006, 02:50 PM
Haha well mate if you think I'm a fanboy, your fanboy radar must need some adjustment!

Look, the comparisons have been done to death. The Dell's that cost "half as much" use out of date tech - you can get a Dell Inspriron 1300 for only $998! Wow! It has a 1.6Ghz Celeron M with a 400FSB, a GMA900 and 256MB of RAM! Wow! That's basically comparable to a 14" iBook from about 1 year ago (maybe more?).

Seriously mate, I have done the comparisons. Many of them. Which mac does the SZ2 weigh 70% of? Carbon Fibre is mostly a marketing gimick, just like Aluminium on the MBPs. Some people dig it and obviously pay the premium for it.


I just went and configured the cheapest Dell I could to match the specs of the lowest Macbook
model:

$1,450.90 gets you a 6400UMA with core 2 duo 1.86Ghz with all the upgrades to make it equivalent to a MB (bluetooth, CPU upgrade, MCE).

$1,574.10 (edu pricing) gets you a MB with the same specs, but without a DL DVD burner. Instead you get a much nicer, portable laptop, with a camera and a remote control. Oh yeah, and don't forget OSX et al.

That's "twice as much"? :)

Seriously, if you wanna talk shop and make comparisons, do so. But don't call me a fanboy.

edit: If you are going to accuse me of being a fanboy, I'll relate to you my experience with a top of the line Dell Inspiron 8200. It cost $3999 a few years back, and had all the latest trimmings. It was loud as shit, couldn't standby properly (would blue-screen on wake half the time) and Dell gave me a GPU with half of the VRAM that I paid for. Unfortunately I didn't realise until it was too late (I didn't use it for games for ages after I got it - so that was my fault). The GPU drivers had bugs when you used two monitors and/or the composite video output (the settings would be scrambled every time you restarted). After a year it developed a wonderful tendency to blue-screen when I moved the screen at a certain angle. That meant that I couldn't really move it anywhere while it was on. I was so impressed, I never bought a Dell again. :) Actually it did have it's good points, like a very nice (for when I got it) high-res 15" 1600x1200 LCD, and the ability to stick in a second battery or hard disk. It was a heavy, ugly brute of a machine though. These days when I buy a laptop I want something that I can actually take with me.

Currawong
10th November 2006, 03:05 PM
I just picked up my MBP and the screen is fine. The only thing I don't like about the screen is that the level of brightness of any one area changes considerably as you move about, giving the impression that the center is brighter. I'm not sure that this isn't the same as other LCD's I've used though.

forgie
10th November 2006, 03:11 PM
[after re-reading the first page]

Your comments about flaws in the latest Apple range said "whiny/moo/RSS" -

whiny: all of my PC laptops have had "whiny" components on the motherboard. My iBook is the first NOT to have some sort of whine. The moo thing: how many PC laptops have you owned? I have owned 4 different PC laptops (2 Toshibas, 1 Acer and 1 Dell) and every one of them had such poor fan management that they would either be on all the time, or do "power blaster fan cycling" every five minutes. Which would you prefer? Sure, they didn't get it right, but the moo is 10 times better then the shithouse fan control on my brothers brand new Thinkpad, who's fan is on ALL the time. The RSS thing was a fuckup. They deserve to be put to shame for it. But didn't the RSS thing only affect Macbooks and not MBPs? I know two people with macbooks who haven't experienced the problem for what it's worth (probably not much, I know). That's not to excuse them, since they obviously had a design flaw in a component in the MB.

So really, compared to the other companies, they have buggered up the RSS thing pretty badly. Then there was the heat thing. This is all while transitioning the architecture of their entire product range.

Are you talking about the MB, or the MBP? If you're talking about the MB, then the price thing is moot. If you are talking about the MBP, then the RSS thing is moot.

zbaron
10th November 2006, 03:52 PM
We've just unpacked two new MBP C2Ds and the screens are fine. They even came with nearly full batteries. Anyhow, the very bottom of the screen could be a little brighter, but unless I have my eyes so close that my chin sitting on the keyboard, I cannot notice it.

IIe2PB
10th November 2006, 05:57 PM
We've just unpacked two new MBP C2Ds and the screens are fine. They even came with nearly full batteries. Anyhow, the very bottom of the screen could be a little brighter, but unless I have my eyes so close that my chin sitting on the keyboard, I cannot notice it.

Well... I don't know. I got the last of the PB G4's which is still sitting next to me. People said they had problem screens. A year later I thought it was great and still is.

Yesterday I get a new MBPCD2 and now people are saying the screen is problematic. The bottom edge of mine does appear a little brighter than the rest of the screen, but not problematicly so. I'm happy :)

Geoff3DMN
11th November 2006, 08:54 AM
I just went and configured the cheapest Dell I could to match the specs of the lowest Macbook <snip>



We've got the other halfs Dell 6400 and my older mac here (with a new MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo on order).

The Dell 6400 with 3 years warranty, X1400 discrete video, 120gb hard disk, 2.16GHz is only $2242.90 at the moment.

The MacBook Pro I've just ordered was a little over $3000 with only 12 months warranty but with a slightly better X1600 video card (other specs similar).

Sure I'd have a Mac any day, but saying that Dells aren't cheaper (and quoting one particular misleading instance) is disingenuous at best :p

Currawong
11th November 2006, 11:42 AM
I think forgie is spot on - when the fans come on in a PC notebook, we think nothing of it, but we have them come on in our PowerBooks or MacBooks it's as if something is wrong. You've reminded me that I never used to think anything of it before.