PDA

View Full Version : MacBook model Updates



halledise
6th November 2006, 05:18 AM
Hiya all

Question?

I'm thinking Macworld in Jan '07 would be the obvious time for a revision and speed bump for the humble MacBook?
Does anyone have any inside mail as to when?

It seemeth to me that they are starting to look like iBooks of old - very much the poor cousins to the PowerBooks.
Hopefully we'll see MB's with Core2 Duo processors and standalone video cards.

(I'm still ticked about 12" PBooks being 'downgraded' into the iBook realm
- color it black and the punters will go for it. not happy Steve.)

I'm holding onto my 1.5ghz 12" until at least there's a revB MB - dislike plastic - or even (dare I hope) a 13.3" Al MBPro

Brains
6th November 2006, 06:03 AM
... Macworld in Jan '07 would be the obvious time for a revision and speed bump for the humble MacBook? Does anyone have any inside mail as to when?
No, and if anybody who does even hints about it, they'd better hope their lawyers are a match for the legal beagles of One Infinite Loop.

Besides, Apple have all but given up releasing revisions on special dates, because people were starting to get savvy and wait. Now they release revisions & bump-models whenever they feel like it, as was the case with the recent boost the MacBook Pro had to C2D. Totally unexpected, it just appeared one morning on the Apple site.


It seemeth to me that they are starting to look like iBooks of old - very much the poor cousins to the PowerBooks.I will go to my grave believing that the PowerBook Firewire (aka the Pismo) was the best laptop released by any company, anywhere. Bar none. The G4 laptops had zero style, the iBooks even less, and the current range of Inthell *spit* machines look like they fell out of an Ikea catalogue. BOOOORING.


Hopefully we'll see MB's with Core2 Duo processors and standalone video cards.Unlikely in either case.

Taking the MacBook Pro to Core 2 Duo and leaving the MacBooks with Core helps to more rigidly define the 'Pro' models, and also makes the premium 'Pro' pricing more justifiable.

Apple are also totally un-interested in making the graphics subsystem in the laptops modular -- it goes against their marketing strategies. If you want powerful graphics, says Steve, you buy a Mac Pro and pay the ludicrous premium for the high end card. The graphics chips chosen to go into the laptops can handle Core Video well enough, and that's all that really matters as far as Steve is concerned.


I'm holding onto my 1.5ghz 12" until at least there's a rev B MB - dislike plastic - or even (dare I hope) a 13.3" Al MBProYou're not going to see another metal Mac (apart from the Mac Pro tower) for a long long time. Fabbing metal enclosures is a lot more expensive for starters, Apple's manufacturer Quanta *spit* are geared for all-plastic construction, and thirdly the current plastic enclosures conform to the "image" of an Apple product, be it MacBook, iMac, Mini or iPod.


Brains

dshan
6th November 2006, 06:51 AM
I will go to my grave believing that the PowerBook Firewire (aka the Pismo) was the best laptop released by any company, anywhere. Bar none. The G4 laptops had zero style, the iBooks even less, and the current range of Inthell *spit* machines look like they fell out of an Ikea catalogue. BOOOORING.


I had a G3 FW PB and it was an excellent machine (my sister is still happily using it with OS X 10.3) but I'm afraid it wasn't that good. I currently drive a G4 AL PB and it's even better than my old G3. Better KB, better screen, much better speakers, ports on either side instead of at the rear, all round it's just better than the G3 PB. Style is a personal thing, but I really like the G4 PB shell. ,Now that Apple have hopefully recovered from the shock of the Intel conversion and corrected the mistakes they made with the first gen Intel laptops I'm keen to get my hands on a new MacBook Pro. I also still have a G3 white iBook which unfortunately suffered from the dreaded "video failure" problem that plagued both the G3 and the G4 versions. This rather spoilt the joy of this machine for me (though it hasn't missed a beat since the MB was replaced under warranty 3 years ago). Still it's been a good computer, but sadly not a great computer, and once again has good style. The G3 PB looks and feels quite old fashioned, retro even, when I use it nowadays, solid but old fashioned (and so slow...)



Unlikely in either case.

Taking the MacBook Pro to Core 2 Duo and leaving the MacBooks with Core helps to more rigidly define the 'Pro' models, and also makes the premium 'Pro' pricing more justifiable.

Apple are also totally un-interested in making the graphics subsystem in the laptops modular -- it goes against their marketing strategies. If you want powerful graphics, says Steve, you buy a Mac Pro and pay the ludicrous premium for the high end card. The graphics chips chosen to go into the laptops can handle Core Video well enough, and that's all that really matters as far as Steve is concerned.

You're not going to see another metal Mac (apart from the Mac Pro tower) for a long long time. Fabbing metal enclosures is a lot more expensive for starters, Apple's manufacturer Quanta *spit* are geared for all-plastic construction, and thirdly the current plastic enclosures conform to the "image" of an Apple product, be it MacBook, iMac, Mini or iPod.


C2D MacBooks are inevitable - Intel's going to stop producing CD chips sooner rather than later (the future is 64-bit) and C2Ds are already around the same price. The only question is when a C2D MacBook will appear. Sometime next year looks most likely now, I'd guess by May '07, perhaps even by March.

I agree it's unlikely Apple will move the MacBook to separate graphics cards - particularly as Intel are working on new chipsets to replace the current MacBook version with considerably better integrated graphics. They'll be good enough for consumer machines to run 10.5 and, along with slower C2D processors and other differences, will provide the required "feature gap" from the Pro machines.

robo
6th November 2006, 06:53 AM
Hi halledise
Play.com in the UK has alreadly listed a Core 2 Duo MB (not that they are reliable). And stocks of the old MBs are running low in some European stockists. If you sniff around the comments other Mac fora have posted about these facts, you may come to your own conclusion about a date for the new MBs. If you were Apple, would you risk low Xmas sales?
robo

vargz
6th November 2006, 08:30 AM
@halledise

With ya on many things there, awaiting a revised MB, hanging on to my rev-D 12" PB (IMO the best of the smallest Apple portables ever).

The rev-B MB is likely to be released later this month....or MacWorld @ the latest. It will be C2D but it won't have dedicated graphics.

Down the track, Apple will have to add dedicated graphics (even as an option) OR release a 13" MBP if they truly want to complete the line-up and fill the void left by the discontinued 12" PB. Realistically I don't see either of these things happening in the short-term.

f1_power
6th November 2006, 08:57 AM
It seemeth to me that they are starting to look like iBooks of old - very much the poor cousins to the PowerBooks.
Hopefully we'll see MB's with Core2 Duo processors and standalone video cards.

Huh? Have you ever used a MacBoook? They are seriously fast for nearly every task. There isn't that much difference between the CD to C2D for these sorts of tasks.

Geez - Everyone was saying how close the gap is to MB and MBP was compared to the old iBook to PB gap now after one update there is a gaping hole? I think not....

Why would Apple wait to update the MacBook compared to the MBP? Cos its selling more they can build - You will see an update before Christmas surely in the next few weeks so Apple can stockpile new models for the expected rush over Christmas.

hawker
6th November 2006, 09:24 AM
I think you'll be in for a wait. They'll be really pushing the MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo's ahead of the mac book. The problem is that, the range is starting to become like the iBook and PowerBook previous. There was no gap, like in recent times.

When Apple had an 800mhz G4 Powerbook, it had a G3 500mhz iBook - that was a distinct product line between kiddie book and pro book. I think they'll try and keep the gap a while longer!

mechcon
6th November 2006, 09:49 AM
otherwise it defeats the purpose of "budget notebook" as opposed to a "pro notebook"

The Fluffy Duck
6th November 2006, 09:52 AM
I will go to my grave believing that the PowerBook Firewire (aka the Pismo) was the best laptop released by any company, anywhere. Bar none. The G4 laptops had zero style, the iBooks even less, and the current range of Inthell *spit* machines look like they fell out of an Ikea catalogue. BOOOORING.

I have to totaly disagree with you. The white iBooks are astheticly the most beautiful laptops in the world. Nearly every other company in the world has ripped off designs from them. The are simplistic and friendly to look at. The new intell laptops look even better :)

halledise
7th November 2006, 07:49 AM
[/size]

Huh? Have you ever used a MacBoook? They are seriously fast for nearly every task. There isn't that much difference between the CD to C2D for these sorts of tasks.

Geez - Everyone was saying how close the gap is to MB and MBP was compared to the old iBook to PB gap now after one update there is a gaping hole? I think not....

Why would Apple wait to update the MacBook compared to the MBP? Cos its selling more they can build - You will see an update before Christmas surely in the next few weeks so Apple can stockpile new models for the expected rush over Christmas.

yes I have used a MacBook - albeit the 'slow' 1.83ghz model.
there have been some most informative comments to this thread, all of which have helped me heaps - I need all the help i can get!

my main beef - or nutloaf burger for the vegans - is that Apple appear to have abandoned the professional PBook users who value the 12" model with a dismissive 'you can use a plastic jumped up iBook because you don't fit into our world of Pro users anymore.'
I know a number of photojournalists and travelling lecturers who prize the power, the speed and smallness of the 12" as they like to travel light.
Sure the 13" MB fills the bill there but if you want 'real grunt' then it's come up to the 15.4" or 17" me lad where us big boys play and pay a hefty premium for it too.
Windows addicts scratch their heads in bemusement also.

pipsqeek
7th November 2006, 08:42 AM
True.

My photographer mate who travels the world uses a 12" PB. He's waiting on the new MBP 12". I told him he'll have to keep waiting, or get a Dell. :p

pipsqeek

halledise
7th November 2006, 08:50 AM
True.

My photographer mate who travels the world uses a 12" PB. He's waiting on the new MBP 12". I told him he'll have to keep waiting, or get a Dell. :p

pipsqeek



to which we all said: "bugger"

hawker
7th November 2006, 08:57 AM
I have to totaly disagree with you. The white iBooks are astheticly the most beautiful laptops in the world. Nearly every other company in the world has ripped off designs from them. The are simplistic and friendly to look at. The new intell laptops look even better :)

the white ibooks were good, nice robust machines. I still think the earlier iBooks were better, especially for kids, I mean a handle for a laptop is a brilliant idea, especially when the bulk of your market was kids at school... who handle laptops like they're 20 cents worth of candy - especially since news reports indicate insurance companies are pulling out of insuring school laptops.

decryption
7th November 2006, 09:00 AM
The MacBook is perfectly adequate for the market they're aimed at. If you're a pro user who needs the pro features, a 12" screen is useless. A photographer using 1028x768? You've got to be joking. The weight difference between the 12" PB and 15" PB is minimal (400grams or so). If you don't like how the white looks a bit toy-ish, go for the black MacBook :)

Apple has split the product well in my opinion and a decent gap needs to be maintained to provide that. The 12" PB was nothing more than a glorified iBook anyways.

sfcoy
7th November 2006, 09:08 AM
TIf you're a pro user who needs the pro features, a 12" screen is useless.

This is nonsense. I know many people in the IT industry who love their 12" Powerbooks. Are they "pros"? Of course they are, they're just not photographers. These people need the bit of extra grunt occasionally (they're software developers). When they need more screen real estate they just plug in an external screen.

I think that the reason that there's no 12" MBP is technical and not market driven.

Steve C.

Currawong
7th November 2006, 09:20 AM
I will go to my grave believing that the PowerBook Firewire (aka the Pismo) was the best laptop released by any company, anywhere. Bar none.

I had to sell them, so I can tell you that's rubbish. They were a nitemare, numerous problems, numerous firmware upgrades, especially at the time when Apple had released OS9 with its problems. They never worked right until OSX came out.

I agree that Apple should release a small-form-factor MacBook Pro. They should make it as slim and lightweight as possible.

decryption
7th November 2006, 09:35 AM
This is nonsense. I know many people in the IT industry who love their 12" Powerbooks. Are they "pros"? Of course they are, they're just not photographers. These people need the bit of extra grunt occasionally (they're software developers). When they need more screen real estate they just plug in an external screen.

I think that the reason that there's no 12" MBP is technical and not market driven.

Steve C.

If they aren't doing media intensive work, the current MacBook is fine. When Apple means "Pro" they mean a professional in the media field (audio, video, photo, design).

IT professionals (hey, that's me) don't need mega-fast CPUs or cutting edge video cards. A MacBook can suffice very well, it's no slouch either. And if you need that fast graphics card, the 15" MBP is great.

The 12" form-factor is dead unless Apple breaks their product matrix even further (the Mini did that a little) and creates a sub-notebook with Intel's ULV processor like what Sony has been upto. But even then, it would have to cut back on features, which Apple isn't keen on.

Johnny Appleseed
7th November 2006, 09:44 AM
I'm holding out till the MacBook has:
* 64-bit processor
* Dedicated graphics card
* 802.11n
* Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD
* Smaller screen (though 13" will suffice)
That should give me a coupla years to save!

markh
7th November 2006, 09:55 AM
The form factor of the 12" PB is perfect. One of the reasons I havent upgraded yet. Non of the new MacBooks are as portable as the 12"PB.

sfcoy
7th November 2006, 10:30 AM
IT professionals (hey, that's me) don't need mega-fast CPUs or cutting edge video cards.

Well, it's me too. I do java based web application development and RAM and CPU are everything. I'm typically running an IDE, application server (sometimes 2 instances), database, BBEdit, Database client, Mail and Safari at the same time. At some sites I have to use the stock desktop PCs with integrated video and that's a pain in the bum, because
a) system ram is consumed by the video card
b) sometimes the video ram gets swapped out, and the entire system stops while it gets swapped back in so that it can redraw.

Given the choice, I use my 15" PB for this instead. But the others I mentioned are happy using their 12" models for much the same reasons.

Developers want grunt, and some of them like it in a small package.

I've also seen quite a few executives with 12" Powerbooks, who would not be seen dead with a Mac Book. It's just a different look, and they're willing to pay for it.


Steve C.

hawker
8th November 2006, 12:40 AM
I had to sell them, so I can tell you that's rubbish. They were a I agree that Apple should release a small-form-factor MacBook Pro. They should make it as slim and lightweight as possible.

Are you talking the 'iTablet' here?

forgie
8th November 2006, 01:49 AM
I think that the lack of a 13" MBP is very much market driven - there are a small (but vocal) bunch of users willing to pay the premium for a hot-rodded MB. The 12" PB didn't get a proper feature bump in more then a year before it was discontinued, if I remember correctly. Apple basically neglected it, and stopped developing it. That points to low sales: low sales + expensive parts (as has been mentioned, aluminium laptop enclosures ain't cheap) equals no more small pro laptops.

That's my take on it, anyway.

As for C2D in Macbooks, you people don't read enough! There aren't enough Merom CPUs to go around, which is why Apple didn't release a C2D MBP until recently. You may have noticed that PC vendors "announced" C2D laptops months before Apple, but only a very small trickle of systems were actually shipped until the last couple of weeks. Apple didn't want to do a 'dry launch'. There isn't going to be heaps of Merom chips until probably around January next year (from what I've read), which would make MWSF a likely launching ground. That's if Apple are still interested in launching products at events. If iTV is released at MWSF, this must mean that Apple have a working draft-802.11n chipset, and if they have that, then we can expect to see wireless revisions in their entire product line. The iMacs and MBPs have already been given the wireless upgrade according to online reports and speculation, although I don't know enough about the specific chipsets to say whether or not the "new" wireless hardware will actually do draft-N or not. It may simply be that Apple could get the draft-N chips for cheaper then the old G ones.


Bottom line: don't hold your breath waiting on a Merom Macbook.

{prepares to be proven wrong} ;)

forgie
8th November 2006, 01:52 AM
Developers want grunt, and some of them like it in a small package.

I've also seen quite a few executives with 12" Powerbooks, who would not be seen dead with a Mac Book. It's just a different look, and they're willing to pay for it.
That's what the BlackBook is for!

If you max out the ram, the chances of integrated graphics hindering your workflow doing dev work is pretty minimal if you ask me...... I could be wrong, since I don't own an integrated GPU mac. (I do own an integrated GPU PC though, and I'm aware that RAM management is VERY different in winNT vs OSX)

Kyle-K
8th November 2006, 02:41 AM
http://www.tuaw.com/2006/11/07/online-retailer-leaks-macbook-core-2-duo-takes-pre-orders/

nortonjg
8th November 2006, 07:02 AM
From http://www.macrumors.com/

More Core 2 Duo MacBook Rumblings
Monday November 06, 2006 11:41 PM EST
Posted by longofest

Continuing the ever-present hum of Core 2 Duo MacBook rumors, AppleInsider reports that the much-anticipated upgrade may come this week.

Some readers will recall that last week was filled with similar but less-certain claims. A page 2 report by MacRumors had pieced a few, apparently coincidental reports together that suggested an update may have been in the works by late last week. Even after that did not pan out, a European reseller claimed that Core 2 Duo Macbooks would be arriving for sale on November 13th. This claim is largely regarded as a spotlight grab, and there is no evidence that the reseller has any inside information.

The newest information published by AppleInsider reveals 3 Apple product numbers. The product numbers are in sequence, which is common for products in the same family, and suggests that the numbers will be used as the replacement numbers for Apple's 3 MacBook models. The new products are reportedly en-route to the U.S. this week.

AppleInsider has previously claimed that development of the models had been finished and was set for release before the beginning of the holiday shopping season at the end of November.

mikinoz
8th November 2006, 10:04 PM
From http://www.macrumors.com/

The newest information published by AppleInsider reveals 3 Apple product numbers. The product numbers are in sequence, which is common for products in the same family, and suggests that the numbers will be used as the replacement numbers for Apple's 3 MacBook models. The new products are reportedly en-route to the U.S. this week.


Not long now... :thumbup:

goonercat
8th November 2006, 10:12 PM
...Apple.com store is down.

IIe2PB
8th November 2006, 10:30 PM
very exciting :)