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Danamania
28th November 2004, 03:25 AM
OK, to start - the first person who emits a one line answer like "x86 macs are never gonna happen" gets a visit from the mecha and stomped into pulp. This is a purely hypothetical question and that's a nothing answer. :)

Imagine Apple made Windows machines. an iBook with 1.5GHz Pentium M, for example... or a Powerbook with an AMD64. Absolutely identical styling, ports, options otherwise, they just run Windows. An Athlon 2600+ eMac too, or an iMac AMD64 or PowerMac dual opteron. No MacOS, just Windows or Linux or whatever other OS you could put on a normal x86 box - on top of anything else, these x86 Apples with the identical styling to existing PPC macs are 80% of the price a new Mac weighs in at.

Would you buy one?

Danamania
28th November 2004, 03:58 AM
Oh, yes the PC powerbooks/ibooks would have 2-button trackpads.

:)

dana

iSlayer
28th November 2004, 06:38 AM
nope i wouldnt touch one
style isnt the only thing that makes macs great.
os x is the biggest feature of macs.
people dont switch from windows because of the hardware.they switch because of os x.
no amount of money could make be go back to windows.
its just a messy OS.i never feels right to me.
as soon as you connect it tot the net theres a reasonable chance you will get a virus or spyware or at best a shitload of popups in IE.

Im very happy to pay top $ for quality hardware and software.
pc's are not an option as far as im concered.

and i would despise a button button trackpad.
believe it or not i love the 1 button trackpad.i dont like 1 button mic but there is something about the trackpad.

kim jong il
28th November 2004, 07:07 AM
This answer will put me perilously close to being visited but here goes....

I would consider buying one but there is no software available. Following the change to x86 architecture ALL mac developers crack it totally and refuse to re-write any more code. Porting software to run on RISC PPC architecture was bad enough now they want to change it again?? <_<

kim

Paxton
28th November 2004, 07:21 AM
Lemme rephrase then. NO WAY IN HELL

Windows is a waste of time to even use for a long time. I would only buy Apple hardware if there was a Mac Os. If you want to use Windows, buy a Dell.

elvis
28th November 2004, 09:05 AM
Undoubtedly if Apple began releasing an x86 platform they would do so on OpenFirmware which would be a huge kick in the arse for existing CMOS/BIOS developers in x86 land. BIOS really needs to die.

Secondly, there would be massive efforts on to hack OSX et al over to clone hardware, which would have Apple&#39;s lawyers 10 times as busy.

Would I buy such a beast if it existed? Perhaps. Pricing would be a major concern. If x86 hardware meant a &#036;500 or more saving on every single model for similar performance, than yes. If however that couldn&#39;t be achieved, then certainly not.

It&#39;s well known that AMD approached Apple pre the G4 and offered them access to Athlon64/Opteron technology for their new machines. Apple no doubt went through the entire pro&#39;s and con&#39;s of moving to x86-64. I think they&#39;ve done well with PPC, and the recent price to performance ratios they&#39;ve managed to squeeze out are very impressive.

There are of course those consistent rumours saying Apple has a working OSX on x86 internally. To be honest, if I were somewhere high up in Apple&#39;s dev team I&#39;d insist on 2-3 different non-PPC architecture ports in constant parallel development "just in case".

What I&#39;d prefer to see instead is cheap, upgradable, generic PPC boxes available for the rest of the world. Linux and BSD are both PPC ready. Wouldn&#39;t it be a hoot if Windows moved to PPC instead&#33; :ph34r:

mjankor
28th November 2004, 10:26 AM
No freaking way.

I actually read you&#39;re question Dana, unlike some others here. If there was no Mac OS X and windows/linux was the only option I&#39;d build my own PC. If I didn&#39;t build my own PC I&#39;d get a company to build one to my specs.

I like my Mac&#39;s because they are a complete system, OS, Hardware and Software. It all works together and doesn&#39;t get in the way. Now if the OS (Windows) can&#39;t even manage that on it&#39;s own then why bother with stylish hardware to run it on.

Of course I&#39;d probably also start searching for a copy of Next Step so I could run a sensible OS.

jeremy
28th November 2004, 10:47 AM
Didn&#39;t Apple already ponder a move to i386 sometime in the 90s? But think they realised it wasn&#39;t going to do them any good. It just doesn&#39;t tie into their niche where they have a whole platform from hardware to the enduser interface.

There probably are active ports to other platforms. But even still, to most users they are useless without the wide range of commercial apps (open source stuff would be easy enough to port).

Not to mention that NT (at least at the kernel level) is developed on RISC and i386 is merely a port.

kim jong il
28th November 2004, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by mjankor@Nov 28 2004, 11:26 AM
No freaking way.

I actually read you&#39;re question Dana, unlike some others here.

I also read YOUR question Dana contrary to the beliefs of some. (my initial response uses both PRESENT and FUTURE tenses) Sadly the thread took a turn for the serious......

So the serious answer is that I would have to consider it very seriously and then probably decline. Apple, in part, owes its (relative) success to controlling both elements of computer ownership - hardware and software. As a result of this we get hardware that rarely has compatability issues with other &#39;supported&#39; hardware. The same goes for software. I would hate to join the ranks of those who have constant issues arising from hardware that is 95% compatible or software that usually works most of the time.

kim

mjankor
28th November 2004, 11:14 AM
Yes but Dana is asking "what if Apple made Windows computers?". There is no porting issue. She&#39;s just asking whether you&#39;d still by Apple machine for their style and quality even if the were the same as the other Wintel boxes.

gelfie
28th November 2004, 11:40 AM
Yep. I&#39;d buy one.

AMD64 in the new imac body, with a decent, or replaceable video card.

Phillip
28th November 2004, 11:55 AM
This will NOT happen under Steve Jobs.

BUT if Apple HAD to do this, and there will be no Macs left then yes, I would be FORCED to buy one - since no one design anything better. I wouldn&#39;t want to pay much for it anyway thou. I hate it for running Windows.

Mac OS is what makes the Mac unique and cool. Without it... its just a PC after all.

the_OM
28th November 2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by paxtonandrew@Nov 28 2004, 07:21 AM
The x86 machines will, and are slower than the *Book range. The Altivec engine in the G4, combined with the G5 (When released, if ever) in the PowerBooks will be a feat to see and use.
Uhh thats pretty wrong. I agree with you on the G5 part, but the Pentium M shits all over the current lines of G4&#39;s in apple&#39;s notebook line.
Battery life, performance etc.. the p-m kills it, even when an application has been optimised for altivec.

But no I wouldn&#39;t buy one. I only buy apple computers for the mac os, the industrial design is just a nice thing that goes along with it.

kim jong il
28th November 2004, 04:23 PM
OMG I read it without reading it. (sorry mjankor)

If Apple made windows boxes? They would not be in business surely. Most people that I deal with seem to buy PC&#39;s because of price and then because of all the software (games mostly) you can buy or leech (even the ones who don&#39;t play games). The market for beautifully designed Windows/LINUX boxes must be exceedingly small or we could go out and buy a similar item now. I am really not sure that anyone actually makes such a thing. (yes I have seen a few where attempts were made at &#39;styling&#39; and they are hideous)

Seriously, if I had to buy a PC I would not spend any more than is absolutely neccessary. I feel that Apple and macs really are part of an inseperable hardware/OS package. Apple hardware running LINUX or windows is or would be just another box. It wouldn&#39;t be a mac.

icant
28th November 2004, 04:28 PM
Well, if I needed a Windows machine for whatever reason, and Apple made one... then I would take a look.

I do like the simplicity of the iBooks and PowerBooks -- no legacy nonsense like PS/2 ports, parallel ports, and serial ports for me. Aargh, and floppy disks... :blink: Apple styling is quite simplistic and nice. I like the lack of a breakable plastic door to access the ports, and the L-shaped hinge.

Having said that, Apple would have to be able to deliver a fairly affordable machine. Otherwise I&#39;d go with something more established like a Thinkpad, or Fujitsu, or maybe Sony. But the attractive Sonys are the really small ones, which border on being physically impractical to use.

The major attraction of getting an Apple laptop is Mac OS X. The reality is that for Mac OS X, Apple users frequently "put up with" minutiae like major shipping delays, lack of spare parts, that sort of thing. If I were (forced to be) getting a PC laptop, this sort of "not uncommon" Apple delays would probably turn me towards the brands I mentioned above.

If I were nervous about getting the laptop via mail order, then I&#39;d pop into the local shops, and just see what they have. Likely to be a HP. Personally, I&#39;d stay away from the DELL machines.

Just my 2 cents.

wilba
23rd July 2006, 01:03 PM
Apologies for bumping an old thread, although it&#39;s interesting to see how much things can change in 1 1/2 years. :)

Rayd
23rd July 2006, 01:06 PM
X86 macs have gone a fair way, but they are still very hard to get perfected, much system file editing and plist file editing is required to get everything working, and graphics cards , onboard sata, onboard audio , etc all have compatibility issues, making the choice of MOBO hard. not the mention you cant upgrade your system until they make a special X86 version so it doesn&#39;t brake your hacked up one. and the worry that new upgrades will make your hardware incompatible.

i say the extra &#036;1000 for a proper mac is worth the tireless problems with X86 macs :)

MightyAtom
23rd July 2006, 02:39 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ipod_man &#064; Jul 23 2006, 01&#58;36 PM) 197635</div>
i say the extra &#036;1000 for a proper mac is worth the tireless problems with X86 macs :)[/b]

I think you&#39;re a little confused "proper macs" are X86, it&#39;s just a processor architecture and has nothing to do with piracy.

wilba
23rd July 2006, 03:11 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ipod_man &#064; Jul 23 2006, 01&#58;06 PM) 197635</div>

X86 macs have gone a fair way, but they are still very hard to get perfected, much system file editing and plist file editing is required to get everything working, and graphics cards , onboard sata, onboard audio , etc all have compatibility issues, making the choice of MOBO hard. not the mention you cant upgrade your system until they make a special X86 version so it doesn&#39;t brake your hacked up one. and the worry that new upgrades will make your hardware incompatible.

i say the extra &#036;1000 for a proper mac is worth the tireless problems with X86 macs :)
[/b]


All computers Apple make (except the Powermac, for now) are based on the X86 chip architecture.

I think you have windows boxes running OS X and Apple making Intel/AMD (X86) computers confused.