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wickeddigital
22nd November 2004, 09:04 AM
We have just been informed of this new policy by Apple Australia:

If you see Apple hardware or software for less at an authorised Apple reseller, we will match that price up to 10 percent off the current Apple Store regular price. So you can rest assured that you’re getting a great deal.
Here’s how it works:
1. Call the Apple Store on 133 MAC (622).
2. Tell the Apple Store Telesales Agent the product name and technical specifications of the model you are interested in purchasing.
3. Provide the better price. Let the agent know the name, location, Internet address (URL) and telephone number of the authorised reseller presenting the better price.

If applicable, send a copy or printout of the better price offer to the fax number or email address you are given by the agent who answers your call. If the details are incomplete, or if we conclude that the better price offer does not qualify or is not serious, authentic, still open or available, Apple reserves the right to exclude the offer from this program. You must present the competitive offer before placing your order with Apple.
Any purchase from the Apple Store is subject to the Apple Store’s Terms and Conditions of Sale.

When APPLE SOLUTIONS RESELLERS like us get 8% margin on Apple product - what hope do we have to sell a product? Even the big boys such as Domayne and DJ's only get 10%!

OK, anyone want a deal on an iPod or in stock Apple computers? Oh, hang on a minute - no matter what price I give you, Apple match it and ship it to you for free! This is disgraceful!

Disko
22nd November 2004, 09:07 AM
It is absurd. have you tried the ACCC yet?

iSlayer
22nd November 2004, 09:09 AM
it sucks.
but hey if you can give me a quote for a g5 imac for 1800 ill learn to like it :)
that policy has actually been around for a while now.
not sure if its new to aus or if they just hadnt been advertising it.

Disko
22nd November 2004, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by islayer@Nov 22 2004, 09:39 AM
it sucks.
It'll suck more when apple resellers go out of business because Apple can better their prices. Then you'll have no where you can go to check out the hardware, or for some mac zealots - chew the fat with other mac users.

iSlayer
22nd November 2004, 09:14 AM
well eventually i guess apple want to own all the retail stores.
i guess retailers will end up with 2 options.

1.sell to apple
2.go out of business

personally i find this a hard situation.
i want apple owned stores in Aus but i still want retailers.

wickeddigital
22nd November 2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by islayer@Nov 22 2004, 09:09 AM
that policy has actually been around for a while now.
not sure if its new to aus or if they just hadnt been advertising it.
Yes it is new to Australia......

Lucas
22nd November 2004, 10:18 AM
Simply do what i do, when giving advice always encourage people to buy off resellers. I would never myself buy a computer online if there is a store close by. I like to deal face to face with retailers, ask questions - get non scripted answers, see the products and most importantly support local jobs.

The only gripe I have is when stores have no stock, but in this case it could be the stores fault or apples.

Ill give an example. I wanted to buy a ipod, 20 gig 3g. I went to some Apple Centres and they said a month wait on stock. I ended up buying it from David Jones or Myer a few days later - can't remember. I paid full retail and they had heaps in stock.

Now I run a business and this is not what should happen. If I can't get stock for a customer in quickly from my wholesaler, I goto another store pay retail and resell the item for the same price for the cost of my time. I made no money on this sale but I have a new happy customer.

jobe
22nd November 2004, 10:40 AM
I am completely amazed that they would do something so stupid. Unless they have a big picture in mind like islayer said, this is a very very dumb move by apple. In marketing at uni I did a case study on companies under-cutting their retail outlets and going under for it.

Apple NEED a physical presence. Not only to take into consideration all the people who are still iffy about buying online, but for support and what not.

And if they do intend to buy the retailers out, then it's completely disgusting that they would take steps to lower the value of the retailers beforehand to save a few bucks.

iSlayer
22nd November 2004, 10:46 AM
apple wont go under because they own most retail outlets in the states.
australia is a small percentage and thats why we dont have an apple owned store yet.
japan have 2,uk has 1,canada is getting 1, so australia is the next logical move

jeremy
22nd November 2004, 10:51 AM
Don't see where it says Apple will beat the price? It only says they will match the price, providing it's no more than 10% less than the Apple Store regular price.

sillydog701
22nd November 2004, 10:54 AM
So we (consumers) can get better price when possible.
Which is not that bad.

Not everybody can be bothered to do with price match.

jeremy
22nd November 2004, 11:26 AM
I don't think they're offering better prices. I think they're offering to match the price exactly.

iSlayer
22nd November 2004, 11:33 AM
most of us wont be swayed by price matching or discounts.
i like to go into a store and get mine straight away instead of waiting 1 day or two to get it direct from apple.
i dont think ill see an apple owned store anytime soon here in hobart either

icant
22nd November 2004, 11:49 AM
I don't think those options above are the only ones for Apple retailers (selling out, or going out of business).

Retailers can still advertise full price, while offering unwritten bargains to those who come instore to ask.

Alternatively, retailers can also offer freebies ranging from free pens, T-shirts, CD-R/DVD-R disks, bags, screen wipes, printers? Apple wouldn't be able to match things like that.

Having said that, to have the only supplier being in competition with you, and pull this sort of stunt must suck. I must say I shop at places like Bunnings, or KMart or Officeworks lots, partly because of price matching policies. Not that I have asked for price matching lots of times. (and not that I do much shopping anyway actually).

kim jong il
22nd November 2004, 04:05 PM
Its shameful when big business screws over the littler guys. The reseller gets to field the phone calls answer the questions and basically sell the things so the customer can demand that they sell the machine for no profit or go elsewhere. Brilliant

As was mentioned in another thread just yesterday? What happens when the competition is gone? Who would not remember when a few years ago Coles Myer and Woolworths/Safeway decided they wanted 7-11 and Food plus' market share. They made a large number of stores 24 hour traders. They blew most of the little guys out of the water within 12 months and then proceeded to reduce the number of 24 hour stores to only a tiny proportion of the prior total. To ensure that they retain this small part of the total grocery market all they need to do is announce the INTENTION to open more 24 hour stores and no one will try to compete. They never have to actually do it. Microsoft use similar gutter type tactics with vapourware.

Anyone who believes this is good for consumers in the long term is hoplessly naive. Proprietry owned and branded stores will never compete with each other. Keep the resellers.

Finally, has anyone noticed the smaller business owners/employees who post here are really helpful? From resellers to hosting services and ISPs they are all helpful nice people who seem to or are happy to give time freely to give US ALL a better experience. I'd like to see an Apple or Telstra exec do the same.

macintoshrules
22nd November 2004, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by wickeddigital@Nov 22 2004, 09:04 AM
We have just been informed of this new policy by Apple Australia:

If you see Apple hardware or software for less at an authorised Apple reseller, we will match that price up to 10 percent off the current Apple Store regular price. So you can rest assured that you’re getting a great deal.
Here’s how it works:
1. Call the Apple Store on 133 MAC (622).
2. Tell the Apple Store Telesales Agent the product name and technical specifications of the model you are interested in purchasing.
3. Provide the better price. Let the agent know the name, location, Internet address (URL) and telephone number of the authorised reseller presenting the better price.

If applicable, send a copy or printout of the better price offer to the fax number or email address you are given by the agent who answers your call. If the details are incomplete, or if we conclude that the better price offer does not qualify or is not serious, authentic, still open or available, Apple reserves the right to exclude the offer from this program. You must present the competitive offer before placing your order with Apple.
Any purchase from the Apple Store is subject to the Apple Store’s Terms and Conditions of Sale.

When APPLE SOLUTIONS RESELLERS like us get 8% margin on Apple product - what hope do we have to sell a product? Even the big boys such as Domayne and DJ's only get 10%!

OK, anyone want a deal on an iPod or in stock Apple computers? Oh, hang on a minute - no matter what price I give you, Apple can and will beat it! This is disgraceful!
I'll pay you $50 if you offer me an iMac G5 for $100... then Apple will have to beat it!!!

Look on the bright side, we might actually get cheap hardware this way...

wickeddigital
22nd November 2004, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by macintoshrules@Nov 22 2004, 07:21 PM
I'll pay you $50 if you offer me an iMac G5 for $100... then Apple will have to beat it!!!

Look on the bright side, we might actually get cheap hardware this way...
Firstly, that is not how it works - they will match any reseller price UP TO 10% off RRP.

Secondly, we like all Apple Resellers are in business to feed our families, corny as it sounds that is the reality. There is simply no bright side to this for resellers, period.

macintoshrules
22nd November 2004, 07:33 PM
Damnit! It almost worked!!! Damnit! Damnit!

designers_hub
22nd November 2004, 09:24 PM
Its says UP TO 10% off RRP. so if the item is below 10% RRP they don't offer it.

wickeddigital
22nd November 2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by designers_hub@Nov 22 2004, 09:24 PM
Its says UP TO 10% off RRP. so if the item is below 10% RRP they don't offer it.
And they know very well that no retailer can go below what they pay for the stock unless they are bloody stupid...so how can they lose? Sell to a reseller at 10% off RRP or directly to end user at 10% off, what have they got to lose? Nothing.....

epowermac
23rd November 2004, 12:49 AM
Geez,
My Crystal Ball must be working, but a little out on the timing though.
http://forums.appletalk.com.au/index.php?s...opic=2419&st=15 (http://forums.appletalk.com.au/index.php?showtopic=2419&st=15)

This is just the start guys. Apple are positioning themselves to drive the Apple Centres to the brink, so they can aquire them. Its pretty clear to me.
Or they have some kind of agreement with the biggest and need to get rid of the others.
Im still a bit unsure but one thing is for sure.
Apple Australia are on a war path. Over the last year, the opening of distrubution channels in Australia, the introduction of "Store in Store" concept, the movement away from supporting resellers and undermining them and now price matching to resellers, can and will only leed to one conclusion. A distrubution, sales and service channel like we have here in the US.

The signs are everywhere.

Just my thoughts.

Robert Zatta

Comet
23rd November 2004, 01:14 AM
I don't understand what you guys are on about when you say "aquire". What is Apple Australia going to do when they aquire them?

Apple is a weird company. They've got awesome products, great brand value, yet they fail to deliver their products, have poor customer support, and now they don't look after those who ensure that Apple has a presence here.

At the moment I don't see any information of this on their website, so it would be a very small number of users who would go to the trouble of getting the discount directly from Apple.

It's like Bunnings though, how many people would actually go to the trouble of getting their lowest price guaranteed policy?

I don't know, but is there really a market for apple resellers in this country? From my experience in Japan, there is no way customers will continue to appreciate Apple's products and services here in Australia. A lot of the staff are poorly trained, provide false information, don't return calls, and I have yet to see a decent service centre staff who will actually repair rather then introduce new issues.

Unfortunately as a customer here, it would be in the best interest for Apple Australia to either bring in their own stores or simply keep it as it is. As for resellers, is this really a threat?

Currawong
23rd November 2004, 06:23 AM
This is interesting. I wonder what the laws on price fixing are, because this is aimed at resellers who are undercutting the Apple Store - ie: not selling at the retail prices set by Apple.

If I was an Apple reseller, I would be contacting the ACCC about it.

nider
23rd November 2004, 10:00 PM
Apple resellers have died before due to apple marketing decisions... Let's hope this doesn't happen again!

oldmanmac
23rd November 2004, 10:43 PM
Comet, its simple - up goes the price and down comes the service along with take it or leave it. If I had a penny for every mac dealer that has vaporised over the last 10 years . . you know the rest. This was a common practice in the USA in the 80's. A big manufacturer would set up a heap of small hungry dealers to carry its product into the market place while drive a stinking hard bargain on the promise of financial success for the dealer . . . later. The dealer does all the donkey work, getting the product in to the market, carries service and warranty at its expense and when the product becomes successful . . poof . . the dealers are vaporised and the manufacturer takes over distribution and sales, ups the price, cuts the service and the consumer has to paywhatever the price is because there's no other place to buy the goods.

Walk into a mac shop and quiz the guy about something you need to buy and you can bet they'll help out even if they don't make a sale at the time. Most mac dealers and shops have some pretty savvy people who like to help. Can you image doing that on the on-line store when it eventuates when the dealers are vaporised, which is probably the intention.

Comet
24th November 2004, 01:06 AM
Have you visited the Apple Stores? The service there is top noch! People want to help you out, the genius bar is so helpful, and it's just a pleasure to walk around and play with the different products. You just can't compete with that

zefi
24th November 2004, 10:06 AM
I would have thought that Apple would be wanting to treat its resellers a little better than this. Due to the fact that if it wasn't for the resellers the iMac revival would have been impossible. Apple shouldn't be competing of cannibalising its own supply chains, since resellers are often positioned in locations that larger Apple stores overseas would not be.

I would imagine if Apple opened started opening its own stores in Australia, they would be in the Capital Cities which is hardly convenient for everybody. This really makes no logical business sense to me and in should be closely monitored by the ACCC and ASIC.

Everyone forgets ASIC. They can bring about investigations too and in my opinion would be far more effective in bringing penalties against a company.

Snowy28
24th November 2004, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Comet@Nov 24 2004, 01:06 AM
Have you visited the Apple Stores? The service there is top noch! People want to help you out, the genius bar is so helpful, and it's just a pleasure to walk around and play with the different products. You just can't compete with that
There aren't any Apple Stores in Australia ... at least none owned by Apple ... or are you talking inter-continental Apple Stores?

diomedes
29th November 2004, 01:29 PM
I'm the manager of an IT firm thats an apple partner and i can attest that there is absolutely no margin in ANY apple product. You're pretty much giving away the hardware once frieght is taken into account and the ammount of time it takes to get your average punter to convert from a pc platform.

The only place we make margin on apple is in service, ie going an installing the machine onsite etc. We're lucky in that most of our clients are commerical users and are willing to pay our service rates and pay above list price to have us supply their equipment.

when we used to do x86 workstations the minimum we'd make on any machine was $400, you can't even get close to that with Apple.

I'm very thankful that most of our business is in high end unix servers (Sun) and service calls.

Apple treats their partners like crap imho.. often treated like mushrooms and are never given correct ETA's. Lead times at the moment on Apple product is terrable, it was taking us about a month to get G5 iMacs, thats now out to about 2. I am still waiting for the 20" demo unit i ordered months ago.

Apple just seems to use it's partners as free labour to promote and serve as helpdesk to end users.

That being said they have a great set of products, I use wish their management would get out of the sandbox, and start behaving like a professionally. They are too used to a consumer market and think they can apply the same tactic's to commercial users, and well you just can't.

thebag
29th November 2004, 02:53 PM
What do they say:

Computer Heaven: Machine and Software by Apple, Management by Microsoft

Computer Hell: Machine and Software by Microsoft, Management by Apple

:D

sikosis
16th March 2005, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by diomedes@Nov 29 2004, 01:29 PM
I'm the manager of an IT firm thats an apple partner and i can attest that there is absolutely no margin in ANY apple product. You're pretty much giving away the hardware once frieght is taken into account and the ammount of time it takes to get your average punter to convert from a pc platform.

The only place we make margin on apple is in service, ie going an installing the machine onsite etc. We're lucky in that most of our clients are commerical users and are willing to pay our service rates and pay above list price to have us supply their equipment.
Interesting ... I've heard a few PC resellers having the same discussion about Dell vs clones.

One of the companies said they're getting out of selling PCs and just doing service on PCs.

LCGuy
16th March 2005, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by thebag@Nov 29 2004, 02:53 PM
What do they say:

Computer Heaven: Machine and Software by Apple, Management by Microsoft

Computer Hell: Machine and Software by Microsoft, Management by Apple

:D
Actually, i thought it was:

In Heaven, the interface is Macintosh, the core OS is Linux, and the Marketing is Microsoft.

In Hell, the interface is Windows, the Core OS is Macintosh, and the Marketing is Linux. :lol:

kit
16th March 2005, 01:40 PM
I think Apple Resellers have other advantages over Apple:

For instance, I'm far more likely to buy my Macs from the internet and have them courier delivered to my home. The stores won't likely get my money for that (although they WOULD get my mum's).

The main reason I go into Apple stores is for either peripherals or software. When I see a Mac accessory online that I want to purchase, I call MAC1 Wollongong and ask if they have the accessory. If they don't, I get them to order it.

I don't mind paying a premium for that sort of thing because the companies that sell those things aren't always as reputable as Apple, or else have unintuitive online stores.


Another place where resellers win is in time to satisfaction :P. Apple's horrible with delivery waiting times. Since they put new products on the store before they're ever available here, you sometimes wait an innumerable length of time for something you've bought. In a store, you walk in, and if you see something you want, chances are you can have it straight away. No waiting. Of course you're probably one revision behind with some things, but bah!