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dolbinau
27th March 2006, 04:07 PM
Haha, I picked up an Old Mac LC II (Complete and working) for $20, Currently running OS 7.1.

It was previously a school computer.

I need a little help with the OS, For starters, Users and Groups? How can I delete existing users, or edit them; Infact what does it do? You can't exactly log in as a different user like in Windows, can you? I think it has the default (School User) as 'System owner', I would like to change this :).

How come I can't see little icons down the bottom left of the screen like I can see in the System 7 Wikipedia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:System7screenshot.gif

How can I access System files?

I'm thinking about reinstalling the OS Via disks that came with it, however I'm afraid I will loose ClarisWorks which is pre-installed, If I copy these files to floppys could I safetly recover it?

That's all for now thanks :).

applecollector
27th March 2006, 04:10 PM
Hello
Just do a re-install and place clasir works etc.. on to floppy or floppies and then you can put it back again!
Their is only one account in os 7 multiple account i think came in os 8.5 or 9.0
Hope this helps!

dangelovich
27th March 2006, 04:11 PM
Users and Groups isn't for anything useful... not for a standalone machine anyway. You can't log in and out of the machine like a current machine.

The icons in the bottom left of the screenshot are from Control Strip. You'll need the control panel for it if you want them...

System files are in Macintosh HD: System Folder
In there is Extensions, Preferences, and Control Panel. Not much reason to touch the other stuff.

cmjl
27th March 2006, 04:33 PM
7.1 on an LC II... My first colour mac system...

The "Users and Groups" Control Panel item is used to configure the File Sharing server that was part of System 7.x and later. These are users and groups that people on Appletalk connected systems can use to access directories on your Mac. If you don't want to do this then you can remove it.

The little icons you refer to are from the "Control Strip" which was introduced in System 7.5, so that's why you won't see them in 7.1. They just provided short cuts to the Control Panel equivalents. Never used them myself - just another extension taking up precious RAM.

To access System files, have a look in the System Folder. You'll find it on the top folder of your hard disk. If you look in the extensions folder you should be able to remove things like "File Sharing" to free up memory if you need to.

You **should** be able to safely reinstall System 7.1 from the original floppy disks without trashing Claris Works. From memory, the installer does not wipe the contents of the hard disk, it just wipes the System files themselves and rewrites them.

Having said that, you may want to find some old floppy disks and backup your copy of Claris Works just to be sure.

Squozen
27th March 2006, 04:36 PM
Heh, I just got given an old LC475 for nothing when I spotted it sitting in my bosses' boot and gushed over it.

I think it needs a replacement PRAM battery though.. hopefully you can still buy them.

Byrd
27th March 2006, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by dolbinau@Mar 27 2006, 05:07 PM
How come I can't see little icons down the bottom left of the screen like I can see in the System 7 Wikipedia?
That's the Control Strip, originally made for Portable Macs, but was so useful it's was made a standard part of the OS from System 7.5 onwards. The picture you've found is of 7.5.3 :)

If you have < 4MB RAM, download the System 7.1 install disks from Apple&#39;s site. When reinstalling the system, you don&#39;t format the hard disk - so your existing programs will still be installed.

Make sure the "Claris" folder in your System Folder is kept (drag it out to the desktop), otherwise you&#39;ll have very few features with ClarisWorks.

If your LCII has 10MB RAM, I&#39;d still go with 7.1. LCIIs are painfully slow, and while can run 7.5.3 (and update to 7.5.5 - 7.5.3 is very crash-prone), it&#39;ll slow down the machine considerably.

Good luck,

JB

dolbinau
27th March 2006, 04:48 PM
Wow, thanks for the quick responses&#33; I&#39;ll let you know how I go ;),

morpheme2004
27th March 2006, 05:07 PM
I can&#39;t believe you managed to get advice on System 7 :)

Byrd
27th March 2006, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by morpheme2004@Mar 27 2006, 06:07 PM
I can&#39;t believe you managed to get advice on System 7 :)
There are heaps of Old Mac users on Appletalk - it&#39;s not really that big a deal :)

I really wish there was more talk about old Mac hardware (snif) :unsure:

JB

dolbinau
27th March 2006, 05:20 PM
Quick interim questions:

Floppys between XP And 7.1, are there any Issues?

My Screen (12" RGB Apple) is kind of blurry, any tips for a more sharp picture, or more in focus?

It also does not cover the whole screen; there are big black lines around it. Old monitor perhaps?

applecollector
27th March 2006, 06:48 PM
http://www.system7today.com/

you will love this page&#33;

tempestas
27th March 2006, 06:50 PM
Can&#39;t recall any real issues, if the floppies are formatted PC on your Mac the PC will read them. Under system 7.1 you need to make sure you have the original "Superdrive" that could read all 3.5" floppies, 400k, 800k and 1.4Mb, although the LC never wrote 400k from memory.

There are some knobs on the back of the 12" Monitor that allow you to adjust the screen. You might need a very thin bladed screwdriver to do so though.

The age of those monitors I suspect they might be on the way out. The LC will support any VGA monitor if you can get an Apple to D15 adapter plug.

kim jong il
27th March 2006, 07:47 PM
Focusing old CRTs is not for everyone as you need access to the flyback transormer on the analogue board that powers the CRT (~16,000 Volts is pretty standard) (usually 1 or 2 adjusters: focus and brightness). As it has to be powered up and connected to a signal with its insides exposed this procedure should be considered EXTREMELY DANGEROUS when attempted by the inexperienced. The voltage can kill you if make a mistake and the CRT can hold a charge for days (depending). Basically after you switch it off the CRT acts like a giant capacitor so it still unsafe to touch anything on it.

BTW: this is in no way a comprehensive enough explanation to be considered an authoritive guide or set of instructions.

kim

EDIT: squozen, the LC475 uses the same half AA Lithium batteries that just about all Apple towers I have encountered use. They are readily available and cost between &#036;9 and&#036;16. It just depends where you buy them (not generally a supermarket item though)

morgan
27th March 2006, 07:49 PM
Check your extensions and Control panels folder for &#39;PC Exchange&#39;, if it isn&#39;t there PC disks wont work, I can&#39;t remember which version of system 7 introduced PC exchange and MacLinkPlus.

tempestas
27th March 2006, 07:58 PM
Just to clarify, kim jong il is correct. Don&#39;t try to adjust the focus. Or anything else inside a CRT unless you really *really* know what you are doing.

On some of the Apple RGB monitors the screen size adjustments were narrow plastic screws that you needed an Apple RGB monitor kit to adjust, some thin screwdrivers work, regardless they are adjusted without removing the CRT&#39;s external casing.

I think the black border around the edges was about making the monitors wysiwyg. I know when I had a System 7 machine I just adjusted the screen to the edges for more desktop real estate. A good VGA monitor will suit fine.

Byrd
27th March 2006, 09:39 PM
I&#39;m pretty sure the Apple 12" RGB colour display allows quite a few adjustments if you remove the small plastic tab on the rear of the monitor, and adjust the pots using a small flathead screwdriver. It&#39;s very similar in design to the original "brick" Apple 14" Trinitron monitors - surprisingly, quite a few adjustments are availiable. I&#39;ve attached a PDF of the adjustments I found somewhere.

The easiest way to read floppies between XP/OS 7 is to have PC Exchange installed - I&#39;m pretty sure it comes with 7.1, otherwise 7.5.3 definately has it. Make sure you format your disks as DOS 1.44MB, not HFS - this is the easiest way.

JB

dolbinau
27th March 2006, 09:54 PM
Ahh it appears the system disks (All original) Are damaged, well; When I get up to disktools it ejects and asks me to put in &#39;installmefirst&#39;, then says error.

Anyway I downloaded System 7.0.1 from the Apple website, .bin, which I used stuffit to extract to some .smi file? Which I now find out to be a &#39;Self Mounting Image&#39; Still doesn&#39;t help how I can get it on my mac though :P

Well I&#39;m lost. I remember seeing a tutorial on &#39;how to install Mac OS software using only a PC&#39; but I can&#39;t find it, anyone be able to link me?

NiftyNev
27th March 2006, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by dolbinau@Mar 27 2006, 09:54 PM
Well I&#39;m lost. I remember seeing a tutorial on &#39;how to install Mac OS software using only a PC&#39; but I can&#39;t find it, anyone be able to link me?
http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/pc2mac.html

Nev

dolbinau
28th March 2006, 06:36 AM
Still stuck :(, I tried the original OS disks this morning and suprisingly it worked up to &#39;Install 2&#39; - However it says this disk is unreadable.


Assuming I will infact get 7.0.1 on it in the future are there any serious disadvantages compared to this OS than 7.1 that was previously on it?

Maybe one solution could be for someone to unpack this Self Mounting image on their mac, compress it (Any StuffIt Extention or Zip if possible) And send it to me via e-mail.

dolbinau {{{{{[[[at]]]]{{}}}} gmail dot com

If anyone could I&#39;d be very appreciative ;) Thanks.

The image: ftp://ftp.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Ap...m_7.0.1.smi.bin (ftp://ftp.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.0.x/System_7.0.1.smi.bin)

I have software which can write (In a Mac format) .dmg files or even .smi however I need seperate disks as It is trying to write the entire thing. (4+mb)

dolbinau
28th March 2006, 03:46 PM
No one :&#39;(? Sorry if I didn&#39;t leave it long enough?

I tried on a restricted mac at school today, the .smi directly mounts as four or five images (each disk), Unfortunately I couldn&#39;t save them due to restrictions, Anyone do it for me and e-mail it, please :P ?

Byrd
28th March 2006, 07:49 PM
Sorry, I don&#39;t have a Mac nearby to unstuff the files :)

Copy each disk image to a (known working) floppy, put in LCII and copy the image over to your hard disk. Expand it on the LCII using Stuffit Expander, then use Disk Copy to mount the disk image and copy this to (another known good) floppy.

JB

dolbinau
28th March 2006, 07:56 PM
Oh, there&#39;s half the problem. By half installing the OS I can no longer boot the LC II :P.

I will see tommorow if I can somehow get the .smi to mount on a usb disk (Namely iPod).

Too bad the newest iMac does not have a floppy drive (Well, any iMac for that matter :P )

morgan
28th March 2006, 08:10 PM
In system 7, all you needed to start was the file called &#39;System&#39; and &#39;Finder&#39;. Start with disk one in the drive and drag them to the hard drive and it should start on its own. All the other files are things to make the system look pretty.

Byrd
29th March 2006, 08:07 AM
If you&#39;re in Melbourne dolbin - I&#39;ve a set of System 7.1 (or 7.0, can&#39;t remember) disks you can borrow if you want.

JB

oldMacuser
30th March 2006, 06:12 AM
From what I remember of sys7 is that when installing the system, there was an "enabler" installed, which means machine specific sys. I have a full set of 7.5.3 (Original, that came with my old Quadra 800 - circa &#39;92), I also think I have some sys6 disks somewhere with all my old software from those days. I still have a lot of stuff from when I bought my original Mac in &#39;85 a 512k "fatmac"

Byrd
30th March 2006, 12:15 PM
System Enablers are installed to support new hardware - quite a few 68K machines need these, but the LCII is so bog standard it doesn&#39;t need one installed.

IIRC I believe OS 8 did away with enablers.

JB

Kallikak
30th March 2006, 12:45 PM
Macs earlier than about mid 1992 are ok without System enablers, and the LC II (Mar 92) is one of the last in that category. Subsequent machines all needed them - until, as Byrd says, System 8 put an end to the whole sorry business.