PDA

View Full Version : microsoft employees backlash against vista



internet
27th March 2006, 11:54 AM
check this
http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2006/03/vista...ership-now.html (http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2006/03/vista-2007-fire-leadership-now.html)

there's a lot of comments in there by MS employees, many of them saying why can't we do it like apple, and how they know OS X has it all over Vista already :)

a good read :)

forgie
27th March 2006, 12:53 PM
They can't do it like Apple because of their stupid (do it once, do it right, do it for everyone [backwards compatability]) software philosophy. It stifles innovation in a MASSIVE way.

Bart Smastard
27th March 2006, 12:57 PM
I like this comment:

I wonder how many employees at PC hardware companies are wishing they had some way to call up Apple and license OS X for Intel. They could have 10.4 "Tiger" on PC hardware in a matter of weeks.

It's ironic that there's all this hype in the Mac community about XP running on a Mac and here's a Windows guy calling for OS X to run on PC's.

dshan
27th March 2006, 02:40 PM
Then there's this (http://www.forbes.com/technology/2006/03/22/vista-microsoft-ballmer_cz_dl_0322microsoft.html) piece from Forbes. I dunno about Steve Jobs but I'm sure waking up happy! If only Apple didn't have to go through the pain and FUD of the Intel transition just now, of all times... It may well cost Apple the opportunity to make a real dent in MS marketshare.

I'm opposed to running OS X on generic PCs. Screw Windows users, if they want to run OS X they should buy Macs.

disgust
27th March 2006, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Bart Smastard@Mar 27 2006, 12:57 PM
I like this comment:


It's ironic that there's all this hype in the Mac community about XP running on a Mac and here's a Windows guy calling for OS X to run on PC's.
I think you'd actually find there is more real interest from mac users who would love to have OSX run on a PC. Its only an operating system & as soon as a cheaper faster piece of hardware is capable of running it the world as Apple knows it will change.

Bart Smastard
27th March 2006, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by dshan@Mar 27 2006, 02:40 PM
I'm opposed to running OS X on generic PCs. Screw Windows users, if they want to run OS X they should buy Macs.
I with you there brother.

I'm also opposed to running Windows on Macs.
I'd much rather see MS's OS share decline into the domain of Hades, forcing developers to port their games/apps to OS X to keep in business.

marc
27th March 2006, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Bart Smastard@Mar 27 2006, 02:47 PM
I'd much rather see MS's OS share decline into the domain of Hades, forcing developers to port their games/apps to OS X to keep in business.
As cool as that would be, I'd really love to see Linux and a Google OS take a large portion of the market. I don't think it's healthy for anyone to have a monopoly. It stifles innovation. I think Apple being an underdog has been one of the best things for them... OS X can't just be a little bit better than Windows, it has to totally obliterate it for people to switch.

That's a very, very good thing.

Hurry up Google!

macmate
27th March 2006, 03:15 PM
i like that forbes atricle.

it really just cements my opinion of microsoft.

Ric

Phillip
27th March 2006, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by dshan@Mar 27 2006, 03:40 PM
I'm opposed to running OS X on generic PCs. Screw Windows users, if they want to run OS X they should buy Macs.
Hardware wise there's no difference between Macs and PCs. If Mac OS X ran nearly was well on PCs as on Macintoshes, Apple will be forced to work much harder on pushing the envelope with their hardware, and create more hardware + software solutions. I am all for it. :)

lavo
27th March 2006, 03:59 PM
In some ways, I felt sorry for the grunts that work at Microsoft. They *really* want to produce a decent product, but seem to be bashing their heads against the wall. I love the joke they had:

Q What's the difference between OSX and Vista?

A Microsoft employees are excited about OSX......

ged
27th March 2006, 07:31 PM
read a few comments on the site.
I wonder if Apple should License OS X to DELL.
I understand Apple get the majority of revenue from their Hardware, but would it be outweight by the take up of OS X on x86 clones?.

Graham
27th March 2006, 09:58 PM
I'm reading through it and, having worked in the IT department of a couple of large banks, I have a lot of sympathy for the developers. Internal politics and changes in direction can choke the life out of any company (see Apple 1993-1997) and that's what's happening here. The quote that sums it all up for me is the vitriolic:

To those saying ďstop pointing fingers, suck it up, take personal responsibilityĒ Iíve got two words. F-YOU. And the brain-addled, arthritic goat you rode in on. I have been sucking it up. For five years. Iíve been working my ass off to build a product and Iíve seen GMs, PUMs, VPs and other overpaid zeros walking around with their heads up the asses. No leadership, no decisions, no goals, no hard choices, no accountability. I've watched at least 40 man-years of dev time down the olí crapper in my org because of worthless management. Now I spend my days adding SAL annotations, fixing PREF*** bugs, and changing comments in the code so we donít call some third-world country by a politically incorrect name in some obscure header file that hasnít had an edit since we were all using SLM. By the time we ship, the damn place will have had another coup and changed its name again, so who cares?

Graham
27th March 2006, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by ged@Mar 27 2006, 08:31 PM
read a few comments on the site.
I wonder if Apple should License OS X to DELL.
I understand Apple get the majority of revenue from their Hardware, but would it be outweight by the take up of OS X on x86 clones?.
OS X is finicky about memory. Put poor quality chips in and it's kernel panic city. Now extend that to all the machines out there with poor quality memory and then add in all the wildly different brands of hardware and the myriad of drivers required for them. Now as soon as OSX hits that hardware there will be masses of reports of problems and the reputation of OS X gets shot to hell. That's why OS X will never be available to all machines.

morpheme2004
27th March 2006, 10:23 PM
Vista - I wouldn't buy it with someone else's money. Then again What do I know, I've only been testing the dog for the last 2-3 yrs...

internet
28th March 2006, 11:03 AM
why was this moved to software general? it's more commentary on an issue rather than software for a mac...

Bart Smastard
28th March 2006, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by internet@Mar 28 2006, 11:03 AM
why was this moved to software general? it's more commentary on an issue rather than software for a mac...
The topic is Vista. It's software. And it's software in general...
Actually, to be precise, it's vapourware :D

arribadia
29th March 2006, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Bart Smastard@Mar 27 2006, 02:47 PM
I with you there brother.

I'm also opposed to running Windows on Macs.
I'd much rather see MS's OS share decline into the domain of Hades, forcing developers to port their games/apps to OS X to keep in business.
While I hope Microsoft would go away too, but let's give them credit where it is due, if not for Microsoft there would not have been any "standard" in the PC industry today. Different companies like.. idk.. "Tandy" or "Dick Smith" or whatever will all package different computers running on different OS' and all of them would be incompatible with each other.

Just like the nightmare the computer industry was a couple decades back.

So while Microsoft is evil I think they were a necessary evil, and I certainly have no delusions that Apple will stay squeaky clean the day that they turn into a market leader either...

marc
29th March 2006, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by arribadia@Mar 29 2006, 08:43 AM
if not for Microsoft there would not have been any "standard" in the PC industry today. Different companies like.. idk.. "Tandy" or "Dick Smith" or whatever will all package different computers running on different OS' and all of them would be incompatible with each other.
Hmmm... I think someone would have come out the winner if it wasn't M$. Everything would have been different, but some standard would have been reached--it's just the way things work out.

feeze
29th March 2006, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by arribadia@Mar 29 2006, 08:43 AM
While I hope Microsoft would go away too, but let's give them credit where it is due, if not for Microsoft there would not have been any "standard" in the PC industry today. Different companies like.. idk.. "Tandy" or "Dick Smith" or whatever will all package different computers running on different OS' and all of them would be incompatible with each other.

Just like the nightmare the computer industry was a couple decades back.

So while Microsoft is evil I think they were a necessary evil, and I certainly have no delusions that Apple will stay squeaky clean the day that they turn into a market leader either...
Ahem, I think can thank the US Government for that. They're are the real reasons why Microsoft became big (that and fact that both Apple's and IBM's legal departments stuffed up big time) :)

iMick
29th March 2006, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by arribadia@Mar 29 2006, 08:43 AM
While I hope Microsoft would go away too, but let's give them credit where it is due, if not for Microsoft there would not have been any "standard" in the PC industry today. Different companies like.. idk.. "Tandy" or "Dick Smith" or whatever will all package different computers running on different OS' and all of them would be incompatible with each other.

Just like the nightmare the computer industry was a couple decades back.

So while Microsoft is evil I think they were a necessary evil, and I certainly have no delusions that Apple will stay squeaky clean the day that they turn into a market leader either...
Excellent way of wording something I have always thought to be true, much to the distain of my linux using friends.

Exocet
30th March 2006, 02:36 PM
That was an excellent read. I've spent the last few days here at work reading through this. So much great information in there, and its always interesting to see the opinions of the people who are being jerked around as much as we are - but from within the company.

Did a full copy/paste into MS word when I was done. 250 odd pages and 80,000 words! No wonder it took me several days to plough through!

antechinus55
30th March 2006, 03:43 PM
a coupla comments:
I look forward to the day when hardware is irrevelent from a users point of view, and they can run whatever OS they want, ie roll on OSX for PCs.
OSX is already available for PCs anyway, in 2 flavours, one hacked version that you can download at any torrent site, the other darwin.
Darwin, linux and BSD give an important clue as to how the full version of OSX could be ported to PCs and remain stable, give a lot of it over to open source. Apple would still make a bundle packaging it and selling it, and compatability issues could be addressed by the user community.
Finally I think the stuff about memory compatability issues is overstated (ducks incomming flames).

On a completely different point. I think you can thank IBM for not copyrighting their original PC design for the standardisation that we see in hardware today. IBMs decision processes for that project are unfathomable, in addition to not copyrighting the hardware they did not buy the OS, they licenced it, non-exclusively, from MS. When Gates (who was about 19) negotiated this deal with IBM he did not have ANY OS, he subsequently bought DOS for $50,000! Gates is the best salesman of the 20th century, he has no peer.

sao

mwot
30th March 2006, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Exocet@Mar 30 2006, 03:36 PM
That was an excellent read. I've spent the last few days here at work reading through this.
Wow. You get paid do that? I want your job! ;)

Graham
30th March 2006, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by antechinus55@Mar 30 2006, 04:43 PM
On a completely different point. I think you can thank IBM for not copyrighting their original PC design for the standardisation that we see in hardware today. IBMs decision processes for that project are unfathomable
At the time they were the largest computer company (and going through yet another anti-trust lawsuit - Microsoft hasn't come close to IBM on those terms) and it was a mainframe world. No-one though PCs would be of interest to anyone other than hobbyists. After all real businesses would never use them and why would 'normal' people want one in their house?

mwot
31st March 2006, 10:34 AM
As an aside, you know the only thing I'm looking forward to when/(if) Vista is actually released, is the ability to have a useful search function in Outlook. Seriously, trying to find neatly filed away emails 8 monthts (or even 8 days!) down the track, is nigh impossible in XP. It's a hit and miss afair.

Spotlight in Tiger is ingenious!

Mind you, given that our office only moved to XP about this time last year (and we're a globaly organisation, so maybe that's got something to with it - cost, et all), it'll be 2009 before we move to Vista!!

Exocet
31st March 2006, 10:44 AM
Exactly, which makes no sense why they'd release it to corp first - cause they're going to be the last people to adopt it!