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Georgina EG
14th February 2006, 05:35 PM
Announced to-day is that the ringleaders of the Bali 9 are to be shot by a firing squad.

I'm sure they knew the consequences of their actions if they were caught, so having sympathy for them isn't a positive response.

purana
14th February 2006, 05:36 PM
Justice has been served

gurgle
14th February 2006, 05:38 PM
maaaan not another politically charged thread..

can we kill this one now before we all get worked up again?

hawker
14th February 2006, 05:38 PM
I'm sure killing everyone solves the problem ;)

markh
14th February 2006, 05:39 PM
So now if only they'd given the same sentence to the others.... Sorry, no sympathy at all for drug trafficers

Georgina EG
14th February 2006, 05:45 PM
Gurgle, where are the politics? It's about people being caught with large amounts of drugs, tried, found guilty, and being sentenced.

hawker
14th February 2006, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Georgina EG@Feb 14 2006, 05:15 PM
Gurgle, where are the politics? It's about people being caught with large amounts of drugs, tried, found guilty, and being sentenced.
Well if you don't see it as a political issue, then its more a moral issue!

But I'm sure the majority rule. Of course, we should do what China do, and do away with all the fancy stuff. Just try them, find them guilty, take them out the back and shoot them (all in the one day). Problem solved. No one will touch drugs again.

Better yet, lets go one step ahead. Anyone caught speeding in Australia, will be executed by the police on the spot. No one will speed again... Ah... Laws done!

Heidi-Lee
14th February 2006, 05:53 PM
Do the crime, do the time say. In this case the punishment is death, they knew that before the went to Bali. No sympathy from me.

thebag
14th February 2006, 05:55 PM
All I can say is,

If you felt sympathy for Van and his fate, how can you not feel sympathy for the Bali 9(an expression I despise, owing to the fact they sound like political prisoners, and they certainly are not). LIFE, no parole and throw in a spot of hard labour makle them useful, as opposed to worm fodder.

But I don't get the thing of rejoice in the killing of drug traffickers, but stand by whilst murderers and paedophiles live it up in our cosy prison system.

Death is a hell of a price to pay for being stupid. They killed Barlow and Chambers, but we keep going back, so that deterrent thing is really working out well for them.

Boofhead
14th February 2006, 06:04 PM
Here i'll make it political :P

Im against the death penalty no matter what the crime and do sympathise with the familys.

However our Government lost all its international credibility on the issue when Howard declared his support for the death penalty to the Bali bombers.

Youre either against the death penalty or you are not.

gurgle
14th February 2006, 06:06 PM
oh cmon its political cos of how we will all feel strongly one way or another on this topic, thus inevitably leading us toward one big arguement

this is just flamebait, no different to this thread (http://forums.appletalk.com.au/index.php?showtopic=16216&hl=world) in my opinion

markh
14th February 2006, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Boofhead@Feb 14 2006, 07:04 PM

However our Government lost all its international credibility on the issue when Howard declared his support for the death penalty to the Bali bombers.

Youre either against the death penalty or you are not.
Thats sometime I agree with also.. With the case recently in Singapore, was so hypercritical of people to oppose the dead penalty then, but in cases, as like now and the bali bombers support it.. Can't have it both ways..

iain
14th February 2006, 06:10 PM
Only the most barbaric of nations execute their prisoners.

Well done AFP for getting these people killed.

964RSCS
14th February 2006, 06:20 PM
I really don't think it will be too much of a deterent. Perhaps in the short term, but I think it will just serve to make the trafficers smarter, and work harder to avoid being caught.... unfortunately

Regardless of what you may think of the penalities, those involved would have known what the possible penalities would have been when they decided to move the drugs. Perhaps the 'mules' didn't, but the two guys who have been given the death sentence sure would have. To me, those two looked almost philosophical on the news tonight. They took a risk, a gamble, and lost.

Razer
14th February 2006, 06:22 PM
I feel sorry for their families, they didn't do anything wrong and arguebly face a worse punishment then the people that are too be shot.

Phillip
14th February 2006, 06:33 PM
Every single time an Australian has been sentenced to death overseas it's been in relation to drug smuggling. Are Australians just not trying or are we not capable of doing anything more significant than moving drugs around the place? Murder someone, rape someone, molest a kid, blow up a building. That's a crime worthy of death.* Being the godfather for a drug smuggling operation? Now, that's just pussy.

On a more serious note, the life sentences given were stupid. Exactly how much does the Balinese taxpayers have to pay to lock a 20 year old up for the rest of his life? Or has someone forgotten that jails cost the public to run?

*I'm actually opposed to the death penalty even though some people deserve to die.

visional_studios
14th February 2006, 06:34 PM
The should be punished for their crimes, but not to that extent. I believe drug trafficers have the ability to really learn from their mistake and should be given a second chance. If the country insists on a death penalty, it should be reserved for paedophiles and serial rapists etc.

hawker
14th February 2006, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Phillip@Feb 14 2006, 06:03 PM
On a more serious note, the life sentences given were stupid. Exactly how much does the Balinese taxpayer money does it cost to lock a 20 year old up for the rest of his life? Or has someone forgotten that jails cost the public to run?
Does life in Indo mean life?

I mean, I know in the NT for many years, if you went to jail for life, that was it, you were gone (ie. till you were dead). But in most other places, life is only 20-25 years!

Phillip
14th February 2006, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by hawker@Feb 14 2006, 07:35 PM
Does life in Indo mean life?
Apparently it does. According to the 4.30 News on Seven yesterday. Hardly respectable however.

I know in Australia, at least most of the cases I've heard, life doesn't mean "for the rest of your natural life" unless stated. It's a big burden on taxpayers to have to pay to fund someone for the rest of their living life, especially when our life expectancies are among the world's highest.

MacNut
14th February 2006, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by hawker@Feb 14 2006, 06:35 PM
Does life in Indo mean life?

I mean, I know in the NT for many years, if you went to jail for life, that was it, you were gone (ie. till you were dead). But in most other places, life is only 20-25 years!
In Indonesia, if you get a life sentence, you die in gaol

Aa
14th February 2006, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by markh@Feb 14 2006, 05:39 PM
.... Sorry, no sympathy at all for drug trafficers
i guess except for Viagra, Valium, Alcohol, Nicotine, Caffeine, Codeine.....

enjoy your saturday night now won't you... ;)

Currawong
14th February 2006, 07:26 PM
What aa says...I am always reminded of those ads that suggest you should give drugs to your children if they feel sick. We wonder why, later in life, they take illegal drugs when they feel depressed...

The usual hypocrisy will always exist - if the govt. approves it, however bad it is, then it's "Ok", whether it be drugs or killing.

I have to wonder how people can get caught up in shit like this.

the_OM
14th February 2006, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Currawong@Feb 14 2006, 07:26 PM
I have to wonder how people can get caught up in shit like this.
Because they are stupid.

And then their parents will get on tv and blame the federal police and government because they failed as parents.

It's quite an amusing cycle to watch really.

Ben™
15th February 2006, 10:31 AM
Good riddence. They got what they deserved.

mechcon
15th February 2006, 10:55 AM
here here

jesski
15th February 2006, 11:10 AM
While I agree they are stupid.. I still don't think they deserve that.

I'm not against the death penalty altogether - hell, there are some people that probably don't deserve to be alive after things they have done (ie murder).

However... I think that everyone can make mistakes (ok, so I would never be that stupid to make one like that), but I think that it's sad that these young lives are going to waste.

spargo
15th February 2006, 11:42 AM
A waste of a bullet really. Surely there's cheaper ways to delete these scum.

And if you think i'm being harsh, consider the family's affected by those who would have brought and used the trafficked drugs.

Verdict = :thumbup:

mwot
15th February 2006, 11:59 AM
I'm all for justice - who isn't, except for those condemned, perhaps?

Ultimately, if you're responsible (or intend to be, whether you believe you are or not) for screwing someone's life up so bad, I don't believe there can be any equal punishment - except death and even then, there's argument.

That said, the death penalty doesn't sit easy with me. I think it is simply a stark reality of the world in which we live in that such sentences are meted out. I think also you should face up to the consequences of your actions, and different countries have differing consequences.

Regardless, hard drugs = bad, ppl.

symean
15th February 2006, 12:43 PM
I'm against the dealth penalty for any crime for the first offence, but no for re-offenders. A penal system is supposed to be based on the idea that a criminal can be rehabilitated, that he can change. But if you can't learn from your mistakes, you're screwed and don't deserve a third chance.

As far as Australia goes, I think all standard fines and jail terms for re-offences should be doubled.

mechcon
15th February 2006, 01:09 PM
one bullet to save many many many lives, just think of the families and people that would use those drugs, above else, what if it falls into the wrong hands, like children?

Rochelle
15th February 2006, 03:20 PM
They knew the consequences of their actions. They willingly took a gamble and lost. Why should I care about their life when they were so flippant with it?

iMick
15th February 2006, 03:36 PM
I like the capital punishment for re-offenders only idea. I support the death sentence but everyone should get a second chance no matter what they have done.

If you are stupid enough to make the same mistake twice - BAM no soup for you!

P.S. If they have been sentenced to life in prison, isn't that really a death sentence as well? Maybe getting capped would be a kinder fate than 50-60 years in a foreign jail with no hope of release.

forgie
15th February 2006, 03:53 PM
Hmmm. Drug traffickers are not considered as people any more.... me thinks maybe many of those in favour of murdering these people in the name of justice have never experienced drug abuse for themselves and have no concept of what it does to your brain.

Ever met an alcoholic? Would you murder bootleggers if we had prohibition?

Anyone who jumps hastily onto the "it's right to murder people for justice" might want to think about it a little longer - this is a very important moral distinction that you are making, telling someone that they don't deserve to live... it just defies belief that we can murder drug smugglers, then turn a blind eye to crimes committed by businessmen and politicians. But hey, we are a democratic nation, so by the rules of mob rule, the mob rules. I will shut up with my 'use your brain' talk now....

.... back to your beer people, beer and coffee. And xanax. And zoloft. And sleeping pills. And ritalin. And codeine. And cigarettes. Don't forget cigarettes. Look ma, they're addictive! And they make me look cool! But do they kill you? Yes mum, they kill me. Are they legal? Yes ma, they're legal. Oh, that's ok then!

....pffft I need a coffee.... you people need to go and join a witch burning group or something, your morally judgemental attitudes are what keeps any society from properly dealing with social problems like drug abuse.

vicmeldrew
15th February 2006, 04:30 PM
here here (forgie)

AusMac
15th February 2006, 05:23 PM
I believe they said firing squad?

More than one bullet.. nods .. a squad is more than one.

If it was only one bullet, yes it is the cheapest method.

No, I do not believe in the death penalty unless it is issued by you, in defence of your own life.

Whilst these people are found guilty of running a drug smuggling syndicate and for the fact that they have sent 7 other Australians to jail for life, in Changi prison. We may feel they should be put out of "our misery" for good.....

Which one of us wants to shoot up the local tobacco distributor? Face it he is guilty of both a conspiracy to addict and of knowingly trafficking a substance known to be the greatest killer drug of all. To top it off ... He shows no remorse for his actions.

We in Australia actually have the capability of supplying all known heroin addicts from Australian grown opium. We do not need to import it via unscrupulous people and methods, which leads to unscrupulous handling and distribution.
We could have our own system of supplying known addicts until they can be rehabilitated or .. not.
If we made heroin possession legal for registered addicts then they would not be supporting crime.
Thus crime would not be making it's bread and butter money.
If we offered known drug criminals alternative lifestyles .. like life in Changi prison or take an honest job..?
We would be moving a long way towards saving the innocent would be heroin users and would be heroin traffickers.. from a fate worse than death.

Georgina EG
15th February 2006, 05:29 PM
There are 12 in the firing squad, but only one or two have live rounds.

Boofhead
15th February 2006, 05:33 PM
Actually they have a cunning plan. They get 7 riflemen and put 1 real bullet and 6 blanks in the guns. They found it a touch easier recruiting executioners with that method.

Oh and if public policy was made solely based on logic then you are right all drugs would be legalised and distributed via pharmacies and doctors. You register as an addict and are treated as though its an illness. The only minor problem id like ironed out would be a fast universal drug test to help police driving under the influence.

mk1990
15th February 2006, 05:50 PM
Ill go ask someone so strap on some drugs while the cops are after me at the airport, tell them ill kill your parents cause i know where they live.

AusMac
16th February 2006, 03:48 AM
They cannot rely on only one live bullet in the firing squad. There has to be more than one.
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("mk1990" : Feb 15 2006 &#064; 05:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Ill go ask someone so strap on some drugs while the cops are after me at the airport, tell them ill kill your parents cause i know where they live.[/b][/quote] so .. what is your point?

Everyone should know by now that these people were all busted because Scott Rush&#39;s parents dobbed to the AFP. Which was maybe a good thing(in some people&#39;s eyes) because at least the ringleaders(not necessarily the financiers) were pulled in and will be summarily executed. Getting back to the financiers. These are the ones that deserve execution more than any of the others, for they will continue to recruit. It matters not to them that they lose a few couriers.

That is .. if you believe that execution is the method that will stop these people from doing their thing.

detail
16th February 2006, 07:25 AM
I guess the real test for people&#39;s support of execution would be if you would personally carry out an execution.

Well I see a few hands up there.

What if it was your own son or daughter.

Would you still strongly support the death penalty if you had to shoot your own mother.

This support for executions makes it seem to me that we are heading to our own fundamentalist state.

Kallikak
16th February 2006, 08:14 AM
They knew the consequences of their actions. They willingly took a gamble and lost. Why should I care about their life when they were so flippant with it?

Because presumably you know better than they do about the risk, the danger, the stupidity etc of their action, and so your (and my and our) responsibility is to educate, teach and reform etc both before and after their mistakes. It&#39;s called &#39;society&#39;.


The usual hypocrisy will always exist - if the govt. approves it, however bad it is, then it&#39;s "Ok", whether it be drugs or killing.

To me, this gets to the very heart of the matter - hypocrisy. While we live with this mixed standard of killing is ok in context A (e.g. a convicted drug trafficker or rapist) it gets easily morphed into its ok to kill in context B (some bloke in Iraq or someone robbing your house) and then there are individuals who take it all the way to context C (I&#39;ll kill you because you pissed me off, or because you stepped on my shadow).

And this is not just some &#39;slippery slope&#39; argument - this is what happens. People kill for ridiculous reasons, but they feel justified when they do it (though not always later of course). It seems to me that the only solution is to say flatly that killing is wrong - whether it&#39;s by governments or individuals. We have to find other, better ways to deal with these things.

Anyone here watched A Short Film About Kiling (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=5888) from Dekalog by Krzysztof Kieslowski (also of Three Colours fame)?

feeze
16th February 2006, 08:15 AM
I think people are forgetting exactly who Chan and Sukumaran are

They are not some poor hapless fools who made a stupid mistake like the other 7.

They were the ringleaders. They are members of an organised crime syndicate. They lured these kids to Bali with a free holiday, enticed them with money to smuggle THEIR drugs and then threatened their lives and the lives of their families.

Notice how they weren&#39;t carrying any drugs? That&#39;s because they aren&#39;t stupid, they know that if they got caught they would face the death sentence. So instead they recruit others to do their dirty work. They knowingly and deliberately went out and recruited the others and deliberately put their lives at risk so Chan and Sukumaran make money.

You can be guaranteed if Chan and Sukumaran didn&#39;t get caught they would not have felt the slightest bit of pity or remorse for the other 7. They would just gone out and recruited more young Australians to do their dirty work.

Chan and Sukumaran are animals. I feel sorry for the other 7 because they were suckered in by those 2. But I do not feel the slightest bit of sympathy for those 2.

It is people like those 2 who destroy lives. They are cold, calculated criminals with ZERO respect for life.

markh
16th February 2006, 08:59 AM
Sorry, but those 7 who were going to bring in heroin into australia to effect/kill how many people also?.... Kill the lot of them

hawker
16th February 2006, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by markh@Feb 16 2006, 08:29 AM
Sorry, but those 7 who were going to bring in heroin into australia to effect/kill how many people also?.... Kill the lot of them
If execution is the answer - how come people are still doing it after people Aussies were executed in the last couple of decades for the same reasons:

say Barlow and Chambers execution in 1986 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlow_and_Chambers_execution

say maybe Michael McAuliffe in 1993 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McAuliffe

Even more recent Van Tuong Nguyen - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Tuong_Nguyen

It&#39;s obviously the answer&#33;

noisypoppy
16th February 2006, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by markh@Feb 16 2006, 08:59 AM
Sorry, but those 7 who were going to bring in heroin into australia to effect/kill how many people also?.... Kill the lot of them
I *hate* this argument

because it&#39;s the dealers fault that these junkies shove the shit in their arm?

no, it&#39;s their own goddamn fault they started in the first place and continued rather than seeking help.

it&#39;s like those losers who smoke all their lives and turn around and sue the cigarette companies when they get lung cancer

and by the same argument, these people went over there attempting to smuggle, knowing what could happen, and it did...just as junkies who shoot shit into their arms know what can happen.

Also, I dunno about anyone else, but I think I&#39;d rather a bullet than to sit in prison for the rest of my life, especially those Indonesian prisons.

markh
16th February 2006, 10:07 AM
http://www.crikey.com.au/articles/2006/02/15-1525-5013.html

hawker
16th February 2006, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by markh@Feb 16 2006, 09:37 AM
http://www.crikey.com.au/articles/2006/02/15-1525-5013.html

Finally, the Bali Nine took their chances and lost. Maybe two of them will lose their lives. I would rather see those two die in Bali than the hundreds (or maybe thousands) of young Australian addicts who would have died in the gutter in Australia if this importation had been successful.


Fair enough. But come on - as if the addicts are not going to get drugs. This is worse for you and me. Do you know why? Because then the addcits have to pay more, therefore they will brake into more houses/shops etc. We could be the next target&#33;

markh
16th February 2006, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by hawker@Feb 16 2006, 11:47 AM


Fair enough. But come on - as if the addicts are not going to get drugs. This is worse for you and me. Do you know why? Because then the addcits have to pay more, therefore they will brake into more houses/shops etc. We could be the next target&#33;
So by that, you saying we should allow drugs in just to we dont have breakins and crime?

feeze
16th February 2006, 11:52 AM
I personally think this whole situation is hypocritical.

We have a drug problem and a lot of these drugs are being imported from SE Asia. So we scream and cry about it and tell SE Asia to stop the flow drugs.
(We also have to remember that they also have their own drug problems.)

And then when SE Asia does something about it and punishes the the criminals people all of a sudden go "ooohh that&#39;s a bit harsh"

The most hypocritical part of it is, if they weren&#39;t Australians no one would of given a damn.

Kallikak
16th February 2006, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by feeze@Feb 16 2006, 11:52 AM
I personally think this whole situation is hypocritical.

We have a drug problem and a lot of these drugs are being imported from SE Asia. So we scream and cry about it and tell SE Asia to stop the flow drugs.
(We also have to remember that they also have their own drug problems.)

And then when SE Asia does something about it and punishes the the criminals people all of a sudden go "ooohh that&#39;s a bit harsh"

The most hypocritical part of it is, if they weren&#39;t Australians no one would of given a damn.
I give a damn whoever it is. And it&#39;s "harsh" because it *is* harsh. You imply that because these people should be punished, any particular punishment counts. That&#39;s just absurd.

hawker
16th February 2006, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Kallikak@Feb 16 2006, 11:25 AM
I give a damn whoever it is. And it&#39;s "harsh" because it *is* harsh. You imply that because these people should be punished, any particular punishment counts. That&#39;s just absurd.
What about all the innocent people that have been executed over the years? What do they get? Well nothing, they&#39;re dead. But it obviously works.&#33;

iMick
16th February 2006, 04:45 PM
All drugs should be legalized and given away for free by the gov because:

- No more drug syndicates forcing gullible or desperate people into doing stupid things. Drug related crime would disappear after a while.
- People on drugs would fry their brains and die or be able to take control give them up slowly (like with ciggys) because they are not forced to keep using by drug pushers.
- Drugs won&#39;t be cool mkay because they will be legal&#33;&#33; Drugs and Drug usage will finally get some recognition instead of being pushed under the carpet and usage will get lower once people actually realise how damaging they are to there health and family.

Crazy idea but i reckon it has some merit, but stupid conservatism will always get in the way.

hawker
16th February 2006, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by iMick@Feb 16 2006, 04:15 PM
Crazy idea but i reckon it has some merit, but stupid conservatism will always get in the way.
Better than just killing everyone willie nillie&#33;

hawker
16th February 2006, 05:08 PM
Hmm, for those of you that are happy to excute people for any and every reason. A story to warm your hearts:

Iran to hang teenage girl attacked by rapists (http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/4701/17_Year_Old_Girl_Sentenced_To_Death_By_Hanging)

forgie
16th February 2006, 06:25 PM
Nice link - one man&#39;s justice is another mans totalitarianism.

Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone; as someone said earlier, would you be willing to execute your own child or parent had they been a drug trafficker? If you cannot say yes without even pausing to consider, then you have some work to do in becoming a responsible human being. It&#39;s that simple. Most &#39;harsh on drugs&#39; morons live in denial of the fact that one day it could be their kids that are on drugs or trafficking drugs.

There&#39;s another issue here: the AFP have allowed all 9 of them to be arrested in Bali, when they could have arrested the mules here. They have blood on their hands in this whole sorry affair. They haven&#39;t arrested the real drug barons, and the cycle of manipulation and exploitation continues unabated. There&#39;s still drugs on the streets, but 9 extra people have died.

markh
16th February 2006, 06:37 PM
And on what grounds could have the AFP arrested them before leaving Aus? They didn&#39;t have the drugs on them then. They were arrest leaving bali for aus

hawker
16th February 2006, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by markh@Feb 16 2006, 06:07 PM
And on what grounds could have the AFP arrested them before leaving Aus? They didn&#39;t have the drugs on them then. They were arrest leaving bali for aus
Arrested them when entering the country&#33; And they were arrested in Bali, after the AFP tipped them off. They knew where they were.

The debate is not saying, they should not have been arrested. The debate is, is the death penalty really the solution? And the only answer is no. If it was, every country would have it, and we wouldn&#39;t have any crime&#33;

forgie
16th February 2006, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by hawker@Feb 16 2006, 08:22 PM
The debate is, is the death penalty really the solution? And the only answer is no. If it was, every country would have it, and we wouldn&#39;t have any crime&#33;
It still confuses me that people think it&#39;s all cool that we don&#39;t have the death penalty here, but that&#39;s it&#39;s ok for our law enforcement agencies to ensure that our own citizens receive the death penalty in another country. It doesn&#39;t make any sense - you are either pro or against the death penalty, yet the AFP have made it clear that they are pro by tipping off the indonesian police when they could have simply arrested them all on their return to Australia (and had a proper investigation, possibly catching more of the ringleaders). Are any of the rest of you here pro death penalty in Australia?

The Fluffy Duck
16th February 2006, 08:37 PM
death penalty is uncivilsed. But then again I dont like the idea that my tax money is keeping Martin Bryant alive&#33;

Rochelle
17th February 2006, 09:41 AM
The arguement that they were forced to carry those drugs because they were fearful of their families safety is obviously concocted by their lawyers. It&#39;s as believable as the story that Michelle Leslie was slipped those ecstasy tables by a friend and as believable as her return to religion.

Don&#39;t believe everything you read. Especially when it comes from lawyers.

Kallikak
17th February 2006, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Rochelle@Feb 17 2006, 09:41 AM
The arguement that they were forced to carry those drugs because they were fearful of their families safety is obviously concocted by their lawyers. It&#39;s as believable as the story that Michelle Leslie was slipped those ecstasy tables by a friend and as believable as her return to religion.

Don&#39;t believe everything you read. Especially when it comes from lawyers.
Sure - I have doubts about that too, and it&#39;s easy to say it&#39;s &#39;obviously concocted&#39;. But how certain do you need to be to lock up a 20yo for the rest of their life???

AusMac
17th February 2006, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by hawker@Feb 16 2006, 05:08 PM
Hmm, for those of you that are happy to excute people for any and every reason. A story to warm your hearts:

Iran to hang teenage girl attacked by rapists (http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/4701/17_Year_Old_Girl_Sentenced_To_Death_By_Hanging)
I have had a chat about this link you posted with a couple of Muslims and our conversation led to this .. my question: in what way suspicious?

the Muslim response:
boy friends abandon their loved ones ? :rolleyes:
men want to rape girls in public place in iran??? :D
girl takes out knife from pocket ?&#33;?&#33;?&#33;? why would a girl going out with her boy friend have a knife in her pocket ? what kind of girl would carry a knife in her pocket and with what kind of heart...
death penalty is givien for self defence... ??? since when ???

either some information is missing or it was made up.

in the end, its not an islamic rule


In August 2004, Iran’s Islamic penal system sentenced a 16-year-old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, to death after a sham trial, in which she was accused of committing “acts incompatible with chastity”.

The teenage victim had no access to a lawyer at any stage and efforts by her family to retain one were to no avail. Atefeh personally defended herself and told the religious judge that he should punish those who force women into adultery, not the victims. She was eventually hanged in public in the northern town of Neka.

also not an islamic rule. islamic rule in this case is public whipping, and not to inflict pain but to make them (not proud) (no dignity).

Kallikak
17th February 2006, 01:41 PM
The hanging of "Atefeh Rajabi" undoubtedly occurred. It was very widely reported.

This later case and yet another can be read about at http://www.amnesty.org.au/news_features/ne...child_offenders (http://www.amnesty.org.au/news_features/news/adp/iran_amnesty_international_calls_for_end_to_death_ penalty_for_child_offenders)

Not Muslim law? I certainly hope that&#39;s true. But it still happens.

Ken

hawker
17th February 2006, 02:23 PM
As a human being, you have to be pretty disgusted&#33;

Disko
17th February 2006, 02:28 PM
<pre-emptive strike>
How on earth did you guys drag this discussion into religious territory? Lets try keeping things on topic - not just in this thread, but generally. I&#39;m tired of having to clean up holy wars.
</pre-mptive strike>

mwot
17th February 2006, 02:31 PM
I think there are some distinctions between Islamic law and &#39;Islamic&#39; traditions (or at least, there should be), which are more cultural than they are spiritual.

AusMac - are you implying a consipiracy is at hand to further villanise (yet again) our muslim brethren?

I know my muslim brother-in-law would be appalled at that article. Must show it to him sometime and solicit his response.

EDIT: LOL&#33; just read Disko&#39;s post.

/me buttons lips. :ph34r:

AusMac
18th February 2006, 04:03 PM
I don&#39;t want to start religious discussion.
I just wanted to point out that whatever anyone may decide to think about this story in question .. that it is definitely not linked to the regional Religion.