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macgeek
14th September 2004, 03:47 PM
MacRumors have the details
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/09/20040914012224.shtml

Which links to screenshot at AppleInsider - look at em while they last ;)

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=649
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=650

Some nice features, tiger is progressing well.

Sorry if this isnt the right place for 'rumor' type posts
cheers

Disko
14th September 2004, 03:50 PM
rumorise away :)

I was actually going to include this in my next news post.

macgeek
14th September 2004, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Disko@Sep 14 2004, 03:50 PM
rumorise away :)

I was actually going to include this in my next news post.
oops, sorry, feel free to remove the post if ya want to put it in your news post ;)

Disko
14th September 2004, 03:58 PM
hey no need for that. It just means i get to put: As discussed in our forums (http://forums.appletalk.com.au/index.php?showtopic=1465)... into the news post :P

edit: here are all the images:
Security prefs (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/syspref-security.gif)
Preview bookmarks (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tifer8a2prev.gif)
Preview tools (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2prev2.gif)
About panel (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2about.gif)
Accounts (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2accounts.gif)
Address book backup (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2addybackup.gif)
Address book sharing (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2addysharing.gif)
New crash screen (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2crash.gif)
Energy Saver (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2energy.gif)
Graphic Calculator1 (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2graph1.gif)
Graphic Calculator2 (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2graph2.gif)
Graphic Calculator3 (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2graph3.gif)
iCal groups (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2ical.gif)
iCal prefs (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2ical2.gif)
iChat Jabber support (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2jabber.gif)
Network Error (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2networkerror.gif)
Safari RSS options (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2safari1.gif)
Safari parental control 1 (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2safariparent.gif)
Safari parental controls 2 (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2safariparental.gif)
Safari security prefs (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2safariprefs2.gif)
iTunes screensaver (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2screensaver.gif)
Sharing (http://www.appletalk.com.au/images/tigerss/tiger8a2sharing.gif)

macgeek
14th September 2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Disko@Sep 14 2004, 03:58 PM
hey no need for that. It just means i get to put: As discussed in our forums (http://forums.appletalk.com.au/index.php?showtopic=1465)... into the news post :P
haha! which means people get to read the post and click the forum link ;) good thinking

Phillip
14th September 2004, 04:48 PM
the features don't seem to be very exciting... hmmm

ricky1206
14th September 2004, 09:51 PM
when it comes out, can we upgrade to it from 10.3.5? Or we have to buy the installation disk and have it installed?

decryption
14th September 2004, 10:09 PM
You would have to buy 10.4. The same as 10.2 to 10.3 was.

Febs
15th September 2004, 12:20 AM
Coming along nicely. :)

I actually saw a copy of Tiger a month ago (and I didn't have to sign an NDA..so I can say that :P). Spotlight is very cool...and the "splash/ripple" effects when Dashboard widgets appear - very, very, very cool.

Cheers,
- Febs.

ricky1206
15th September 2004, 12:36 AM
It will be released next year?

Currawong
15th September 2004, 08:28 AM
I like the idea that when a program crashes, it will give you the option to run the program again with fresh preferences. That feature is more than a decade overdue! The DHCP sharing option is a good addition as well.

As usual, Apple are adding features which are functionally useful and use the power of the underlying system, rather than adding unnecessary features as has happened with Windows.

pipsqeek
15th September 2004, 09:08 AM
Too right Curra.

That feature is well overdue.

Steve

macgeek
15th September 2004, 10:12 AM
Yep, tiger is nice, ive had a play with it and it will be worth the upgrade when it comes out.

The 'under the hood' additions will stand out more then cosmetic changes, which may deter some people at first as they dont visually see much difference. The great additions will become more apparent as more apps start coming out using the new tiger technologies.

cmetom
1st November 2004, 10:32 PM
ok theoretically, how would one start/load/run dashboard?

i see "in the screenshots" that you configure its 'action' button in sys prefs under expose (default is F12), but pushing this button does nothing for me "nudge nudge wink wink".

also, 5400RPM IDE hard drives in external firewire cases are slow - thought u should know ;)


also, someone please tell me i can stop talking like chief wiggum telling secrets.

Comet
2nd November 2004, 12:21 AM
Speaking of DHCP, has anyone had any success in the DHCP release button under Networks to actually do anything?

iSlayer
2nd November 2004, 06:48 AM
havent tried it but the latest build is very nice
even the installer looks cooler.
dont like the graphite over the apple logo in the menubar.
it did run slower then panther on my powerbook though.
old builds seemed to be faster

the_OM
2nd November 2004, 01:25 PM
I think spotlight alone it worth the upgrade. Automator looks nice, however the build i was playing around with didn't have it working on it.
Dashboard actually seems surprisingly cool and a lot better than what it looked like on the wwdc presentation. The ripple effect that it does when you open up a new widget is pretty cool, and that fact that it uses webcore unlike konfabulator makes it 10 times better in terms of speed, responsiveness and using system resources.

Overall speed seemed alright to me, but i hope/pray that it gains a bit before it ships, its a little bit slower than panther at this stage.

cmetom
2nd November 2004, 01:34 PM
how does one actually make dashboard / the widgets appear?
it is default bound to F12 in expose settings, but i moved it to F7 so my optical drive doesn't eject every time i use it.

Phillip
2nd November 2004, 03:55 PM
Got on of the latest builds running on my iPod. Its slow as starting up off the iPod and running it is slow too. Some comments;

1. I am surprised at how fast Spotlight really is. Its pretty great.

2. Dashboard is amazing. The effects are soo cool and even my GeForce 2 graphics can run it pretty well. I love the return of the tile game.

3. I don't like the Mails new interface.

4. The interface in Tiger is too inconsistent right now. Its getting closer to Windows. Apple should just stick with Brushed Metal, Aqua and the Pro Apps interface. I don't like the new one at all infact.

5. It sucks how iPhoto and iMovie isn't included now. Windows is better at making movies and working with digital Photos out of the box. I know new Macs ship with iLife but what about the 10.1 users? or even Mac OS 9 users upgrading?

6 . QT is at last bieng given a decent upgrade. Maybe it will turn QT 7 :)

Sam
2nd November 2004, 06:34 PM
Pioneer DVR-108 is apple's next superdrive?
I belive it is.
proof when I get home...
(tiger beta pics)

spargo
2nd November 2004, 08:19 PM
I know this thread is about features, but could any of you experienced OSX-upgrade campaigners give us newbies a guesstimate on price for the new version?

When I was a Micosoft monkey I stuck with Win98SE for years before finally biting the bullet and getting WinXP... I just couldn't justify the upgrades.

Having only recently got my PowerBook and gotten used to the current OS, I think I will buy it because everything seems so intrincincly linked into the Mac OS and your day-to-day tasks are reliant on it being up-to-date. But what do people in the Apple world generally do..??

In summary, 2 questions:

How much? ($AUD is fine)
Should you buy it/upgrade?


thanks,

cmetom
2nd November 2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Phillip@Nov 2 2004, 04:55 PM
2. Dashboard is amazing. The effects are soo cool and even my GeForce 2 graphics can run it pretty well. I love the return of the tile game.
i'm still wondering how to actually make dashboard open... any help? i have yet to see anything - a title bar, "widgets", anything...

Sam
2nd November 2004, 10:26 PM
I was having a go with the Tiger beta, I had just installed my new Pioneer DVR-108 with 1.14 firmware, and look what I found:

(I didn't have a super drive before this, only a Combo Drive, I only installed the DVR-108 yesterday... for those who don't know, The DVR-108 has no native burn support under 10.3.5 (unless you use patch burn, which I haven't, it also supports 16x DVD burning)

Sam
2nd November 2004, 10:36 PM
And another..

cmetom
2nd November 2004, 10:38 PM
interesting. new superdrive.


how's dashboard for you? how does one make it work?

Sam
2nd November 2004, 10:40 PM
Press F12, works just fine also had it bound to a button on my mouse...

iluvmymactoo
3rd November 2004, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Si_man@Nov 2 2004, 10:40 PM
Press F12, works just fine also had it bound to a button on my mouse...
I heard that the Dashboard's ripple effect will only be to work on an Apple that is 64bit (ie PowerBooks and upwards), which rules out the latest edition iBooks.

Is this true? This was one of the eyecandy features I was looking forward to having on my new iBook.

the_OM
3rd November 2004, 08:28 AM
The upgrade price from jaguar to panther was $229, so most would expect Tiger to be the same.

It could possibly be a little a lower, depending on what the US-Australian exchange rate is when Apple release it.

DVD Plaza
3rd November 2004, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by iluvmymactoo@Nov 3 2004, 08:17 AM
I heard that the Dashboard's ripple effect will only be to work on an Apple that is 64bit (ie PowerBooks and upwards), which rules out the latest edition iBooks.
PowerMacs and iMacs you mean - if there's a 64-bit PowerBook I want it!!!! :D

DVD Plaza
3rd November 2004, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by Phillip@Nov 2 2004, 03:55 PM
1. I am surprised at how fast Spotlight really is. Its pretty great.

3. I don't like the Mails new interface.
Yeah I didn't really give a toss about this Spotlight crap, until I tried it - blew me away that it gave me INSTANT results!!!

But the Mail 2.0 interface? You might not like it but it's now finally usable for me - couldn't stand the old Mail.app...

spargo
3rd November 2004, 09:11 AM
thanks for the answer the_OM.. AUD$229 = £93

If the Dashboard "ripple's" work on a G4 Powerbook - sign me up!!

MightyAtom
3rd November 2004, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by iluvmymactoo@Nov 3 2004, 08:17 AM
I heard that the Dashboard's ripple effect will only be to work on an Apple that is 64bit (ie PowerBooks and upwards), which rules out the latest edition iBooks.

Is this true? This was one of the eyecandy features I was looking forward to having on my new iBook.
Dashboard's ripple effect has nothing to do with the CPU, it's a feature provided by Core Image/Video. It requires a video card capable of pixel level programming, so the lowest fully supported video cards are the Radeon 9600 and GeforceFX 5200. The iBook's Radeon 9200 isn't fully supported but Core Image/Video scale according to the video cards capabilities so you'll still get some eye candy, the "ripple effect" may or may not happen.

iluvmymactoo
3rd November 2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by MightyAtom@Nov 3 2004, 12:51 PM
Dashboard's ripple effect has nothing to do with the CPU, it's a feature provided by Core Image/Video. It requires a video card capable of pixel level programming, so the lowest fully supported video cards are the Radeon 9600 and GeforceFX 5200. The iBook's Radeon 9200 isn't fully supported but Core Image/Video scale according to the video cards capabilities so you'll still get some eye candy, the "ripple effect" may or may not happen.
I'm a little lost on this core imaging situation. Can someone please explain a little more about it.

What disadvantage would there be not having a compatible video card as in the latest iBook? Does this mean it would be pointless for new iBook owners to upgrade to Tiger?

decryption
3rd November 2004, 01:06 PM
iBook owners will run Tiger perfectly fine, and there are many advantages of 10.4 than just Core Image. All it means is that the effects will not run as fast, ala Quartz Extreme enabled videocards.

I for one, will be buying a copy for my iBook at midnight whenever the release date is :P

Or I may just buy a whole new machine with the excuse it comes with Tiger :)

Phillip
3rd November 2004, 04:43 PM
I am not sure what the ripple effect looks like, but I could see the effects when I close a widget. So as far as I know, I can see effects done by CoreImage. (for the person who asked: Press F12 to get Dashboard up and move move your cursor around and a screen will come up allowing you to bring more widgets up) Loving that tile game :P

Last year Panther was $229. Got a free T-Shirt with it as well :) I think I will buy the cheaper academic version of Tiger when it comes next year :P

iluvmymactoo
3rd November 2004, 06:51 PM
Wow well I'm well and truly confused about all of this.

From what I understand Core Imaging invloves what Stan was doing at the WWDC when he was manipulating videos. Was it Stan?

I doubt the ripple effect will be limited to only certain Apple computers. Surely it can't be that labour intensive?

It sounds alot like Core Imaging is set more for high end video editors or progammers to me, as when I read the info on the Apple site they seem to be addressing software developers.

Surely Apple aren't going to release a Longhorn on everyone expecting them to update their computers in order to run Tiger.

It seems odd that Apple have updated the iBooks to their current level only to leave all the iBook users out in the cold when it comes to the eye candy. I recall hearing the audible "oohs" and "aahs" when that ripple effect happened and I can see a hell of a lot of people who have just invested in the latest iBooks getiing pretty ticked off if they can't see it on their computers.

Obviously time will tell.

thomas
3rd November 2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by iluvmymactoo@Nov 3 2004, 06:51 PM
It seems odd that Apple have updated the iBooks to their current level only to leave all the iBook users out in the cold when it comes to the eye candy. I recall hearing the audible "oohs" and "aahs" when that ripple effect happened and I can see a hell of a lot of people who have just invested in the latest iBooks getiing pretty ticked off if they can't see it on their computers.
Bleh, its not that great, the first few times its impressive but you end up not noticing it.

We probably won't see any significant advantages of Core Image/Video for some time. It was the same for Core Audio (Core Audio essentially allowed developers to access audio hardware with minimal effort, just like Core Image/Video do), only now are we seeing a significant amout of cool audio applications coming out that are of any real use. I think it'll take a while for developers to start using the Core Image/Video stuff in any real way, other than dodgy eye candy effects put into applications just for the hell of it....

.....but when it starts getting used properly :D :D :D :D good times.

elvis
3rd November 2004, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by iluvmymactoo@Nov 3 2004, 01:04 PM
I'm a little lost on this core imaging situation. Can someone please explain a little more about it.

What disadvantage would there be not having a compatible video card as in the latest iBook? Does this mean it would be pointless for new iBook owners to upgrade to Tiger?
OK, my browser decided to crash the first time I wrote this. Here goes the second...

Quartz Extreme was introduced to MacOSX 10.2. It enabled window drawing routines to be offloaded from the CPU to the video card essentially by turning every window on your system into a zero-z-depth polygon, and then sticking a texture onto one side that was dynamically updated (ie: the window contents). This allowed not only the CPU to do less during average window moves, but allowed Apple to plan out features like Expose that blatantly call apon these abilities and still allow a system to function at full speed.

Currently Apple uses OpenGL 1.2 as their API (Application Programming Interface). This allows relatively basic hardware rasterisation (meaning the video card can stick a texture on a surface, and not do much else with it).

OpenGL 1.2 is akin to Microsoft's DirectX7. Both are similar in the featurelist and abilities.

Professional 3D folk have known for years how limiting OpenGL 1.2 is. What if someone wanted to do neat lighting effects, or tricky things like refraction and mathematically created random textures? Things like water, light and transparency/translucency are almost impossible with OpenGL 1.2 as the video card has to render literally millions of traced particles of light, which will bog any video card right down.

Along comes OpenGL 2.0 with it's new feature set, including programmable Pixel Shaders (herein, PS). PS does exactly what it sounds like: it shades pixels. "So what?" you say. Well, with these shader scripts, far more dynamic effects can be applied to 3D content on the fly. Programmers are no longer limited by what the hardware itself can do, but can write dynamic and customisable routines for the hardware. Imagine it almost like an infinitely and dynamically changining set of 3D routines, rather than a static series of features. Anything the programmer can think of, they can no create using a program, rather than the limitations of the hardware.

So now those tricky things like water, clouds, smoke, fire and other particle effects, transparency, translucency, refraction and whatnot are simply programmed in and compiled in realtime by the video hardware.

OpenGL 2.0 is similar to Microsoft's DirectX 8 and 9. All of which offer some degree of programmable pixel and vertex shader routines.

Apple will utilise OpenGL 2.0 for further visual effects in OSX 10.4, which they dub "Core Imaging". Imagine it as the next evolution of Quartz Extreme and Expose, but this time will be available in the standard Apple SDK (Software Development Kit) for which all programmers can access for their applications.

Best of all, being a high-level programming language, it means programmers can forget about hardware compatability. As long as the end user has a card with hardware support for the PS and VS features, the drivers will handle the high-level code being turned into real hardware-level instructions.

If you have hardware that doesn't support all of the features, Apple will have the choice of either disabling them, or having them run at a software level. I'm putting my money on them being disable to keep system performance up. So far they are aiming at hardware-level PS2.0 support, found in the ATi Radeon 9500 and up, or the Nvidia GeForce 5200 and up (or whatever Apple is selling these days that are close to that spec). This relates to video cards only. Your G4/G5 matters little, as this is entirely video hardware dependant.

Not to worry however for older hardware owners. Apple have proven that with each of their OSes they ensure good backward compatability with older hardware. My aging iMac 333 runs OSX 10.3 just fine, even without the hardware required to run Quartz Extreme.

Phillip
3rd November 2004, 08:48 PM
WOW. Nice explanation there, Elvis.

Picked up a few things myself. Keep up the good work! ;)

cmetom
5th November 2004, 01:06 AM
thanks all.. it would seem dashboard now works.
the wwdc build i had didn't. latest does.

internet
5th November 2004, 10:53 AM
excellent write up there elvis, i guess you could say 10.4 will be more efficient in it's use of graphics rendering features due to it's use of openGL 2.0? Will this open the doors for more games to be ported and run better on 10.4?

iSlayer
5th November 2004, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by internet@Nov 5 2004, 10:53 AM
excellent write up there elvis, i guess you could say 10.4 will be more efficient in it's use of graphics rendering features due to it's use of openGL 2.0? Will this open the doors for more games to be ported and run better on 10.4?
heres hoping internet
opengl 2.0 will be huge for the mac community
beats using an unfinshed 1.5
only gotta hope that apple can beat doom 3 so it will be fully optimized.

elvis
5th November 2004, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by internet@Nov 5 2004, 10:53 AM
excellent write up there elvis, i guess you could say 10.4 will be more efficient in it's use of graphics rendering features due to it's use of openGL 2.0? Will this open the doors for more games to be ported and run better on 10.4?
OpenGL 2.0 is not "more efficient" or "faster" than openGL 1.2. Don't think of new versions of API's as "better" but rather "bigger".

OpenGL 2.0 is a superset of 1.2, and is 100% backwards compatible with 1.2. The same is true for Microsoft DirectX 6, 7, 8, 9 and the new "DirectX-Next" due out for Longhorn.

Will it allow more games to be ported? I hope so. Take a look at UT2003 or 2004 running side by side on Mac and PC. You'll notice a lot of effects are missing on the Mac version (the same applies to Linux). Things like the warping effects inside the floating life powerups are a good example, as well as the reflections in pools of water. These are just plain missing on the Mac/Linux versions. Why? Simple put, OpenGL 1.2 just doesn't know what to do with the instructions, and therefor the features are left out for that particular rendering API part of the engine.

OpenGL 2.0 means that heavily shader-oriented games like FarCry and STALKER will at least have an avenue to be ported to when hitting Mac. The question is, will developers take the opportunity? DirectX is designed for quick turnaround, and many developers would rather code to it and take on the Windows and XBox users in one hit than put in 200% the effort to satisfy Mac users. Sad but true. There are of course exceptions as we all already know.

Me personally, I'm hoping people open their eyes and understand that open standards like OpenGL are the sensible path to take. John Carmack (head dude at id and Doom's daddy) knows this, and has been publicising it for years. Unfortunately game studios these days are more interested in quick turnaround and dollars than cross-platform support. I think Apple need to up the anti and really make it worthwhile for developers to push games on their platform. How they do that is a good question. Steve Jobs has mentioned time and time again that Mac is not a toy, and is a workstation OS. Whether or not he sticks with that focus will govern whether or not we see a critical mass of developers head towards Mac.

Just between you and I, Windows is slowly turning into a gaming-only OS. Not much better than an XBox, and it crashes more often. :)

internet
5th November 2004, 12:12 PM
very true, many people complain about mac os x lack of games.. dunno if they're just anti mac or what.. i wouldn't mind hacving more games, but i'm not much of a gamer. it's up to apple if they want to let it become a more versitile platform with gaming. it seems the move to openGL 2.0 will help this

i know what yuo mean with not more efficient or anything, but more features, i guess what i said came out wrong.

iSlayer
5th November 2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by internet@Nov 5 2004, 12:12 PM
very true, many people complain about mac os x lack of games.. dunno if they're just anti mac or what.. i wouldn't mind hacving more games, but i'm not much of a gamer. it's up to apple if they want to let it become a more versitile platform with gaming. it seems the move to openGL 2.0 will help this

i know what yuo mean with not more efficient or anything, but more features, i guess what i said came out wrong.
there is no lack of mac games
there is only 2 games i consider great games that are not on macs
and they are of course
gta3 and vicecity
and counterstrike
most big games are out on mac.i have over 50 top class mac games in my collection.most are less then 2 years old.

internet
5th November 2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by elvis@Nov 5 2004, 11:31 AM
Just between you and I, Windows is slowly turning into a gaming-only OS. Not much better than an XBox, and it crashes more often. :)
true in the home market, but work market people need to use exchange, outlook, etc etc, i know that mac os x can integrate with these (evolution can connect to exchange), but many work policies state clients have to use windows

sucks but it's the way

elvis
6th November 2004, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by internet@Nov 5 2004, 12:59 PM
true in the home market, but work market people need to use exchange
"Want to". Not "need to". There is a massive distinction. Nobody (and I mean NOBODY) "needs" Microsoft.

The sooner people realise what their needs and wants are, and how they are different, the world will open it's eyes.

Anyways... desktop based groupware is dead. The future will hold some interesting things, most of which I can't tell you in this thread. :)

decryption
6th November 2004, 11:12 AM
Elvis is right. Groupware based on a desktop application is useless. Web based groupware is much more flexible. You can be anywhere and access the intranet. It just makes a heap more sense than using some uber expensive Microsoft product that has more holes than Swiss cheese and chains you to the one computer.

internet
6th November 2004, 03:18 PM
ok

try going into an organisation as an employee and say "no thanks i want to use my mac"

see how many it admins and management people will tell them to F.O.

i've seen it happen on numerous occasions.. sure there's a few where they let you (sisters boyfriend does it), but many will not be keen on the idea

i work for an IT company that contracts us out to do network security evaluations, upgrades and consulting. this usually involves writing a standard for the organisation. most include a global OS (all pc's using same OS) and global versions of software.

technically it's VERY possible to run os x, i've used my powerbook at work many times, and gone through whole days without missing a beat. but many companies (especially government) will simply not allow it.

that's what i meant :)

internet
6th November 2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by elvis@Nov 6 2004, 06:46 AM
"Want to". Not "need to". There is a massive distinction. Nobody (and I mean NOBODY) "needs"
no. i NEED to use exchange, thus i NEED to use outlook
i need to recieve meetings
i need to have an accessable calendar for co-workers to see your schedule
i need to have access to online address book

this is very much becoming a sad standard in many companies

if i don't have my calendar in outlook (which works into exhange server) open for people to access with my appointments and meetings in it, i get hounded with work, because my resource manager thinks i've got no work!

just an example of how people are forced to use MS!

iluvmymactoo
7th November 2004, 10:23 AM
I was doing a course at TAFE. The networking teacher (as a matter of fact 99.9% of all the TAFE teachers) had a gripe against Apple.

Two of the most ridiculous comments from TAFE teachers to me were:-

1. "Let's face it Apple won't be in business in the next 5 years anyway. How can they be when Microsoft has the market majority" :rolleyes:

2. "If everyone had a Mac, IT people would be out of a job so what&#39;s the sense in that?" <_<

I just wish Apple would push their OS like MS do. Most people who have never seen a Mac have no idea what they&#39;re missing.

thomas
7th November 2004, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by iluvmymactoo@Nov 7 2004, 10:23 AM
2. "If everyone had a Mac, IT people would be out of a job so what&#39;s the sense in that?"
LOL - Guess it makes sense, Microsoft are keeping thousands employed with their shoddy products... :P

zefi
7th November 2004, 11:10 AM
Omg, that reminds me of one of the best old skool Apple ads&#33;

There are these tech support guys sitting around the table and they are all these answering calls with &#39;Windows Tech Support&#39; and then you hear them saying completely weird things like &#39;colon, backslash&#39; or &#39;you need to check the autoexec&#39;. And then you see the one guy who answers a call, &#39;Hello Mac support&#39; and then he pauses, &#39;Hey guys, this calls for you&#39;.

:)

elvis
7th November 2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by internet@Nov 6 2004, 03:25 PM
no. i NEED to use exchange, thus i NEED to use outlook
Wrong again, friend. There are dozens of groupware applications out there in the world that can plug into exchange.

Do you think exchange is magic? That it uses some unkown and completely unique method of authentication and data sharing? Exchange is nothing more than IMAP + LDAP + Kerberos, all of which have open-source equivalent libraries.

Nobody, and I really do mean NOBODY needs Microsoft.

I used to work for an all-MS company. I quit for a large variety of reasons, one being that they refused to use cheaper, safer and open alternatives to Microsoft&#39;s insecure bloat. I now happily run my own IT company and earn a lot more money helping other organisations save money by not using Microsoft software.

There are choices, and no-one is forcing anyone to do anything. The world needs to open their collective eyes and realise this. I&#39;m happy living in my non-Microsoft world. And to be honest, I spend less time worrying about spyware and viruses, and more time helping clients and doing my job.

Any company that still subscribes to the idea of an in-office groupware solution may as well give up doing business. I don&#39;t know a single company that exists only inside a single office. Clients, contacts, production groups, everything is located outside of your office. Your groupware should too.

What happens to exchange users when they are on the road? Do you then have to worry about external security, expensive corporate commercial VPN access, lost laptops, etc, etc?

There are plenty of alternatives, and all of them work better. I get so frustrated when people just close their eyes and tell me they&#39;ll keep wasting their money because "that&#39;s the way we&#39;ve done it for the last 10 years". Welcome to IT. 10 months here go by just as quick as 10 years in any other industry.

internet
7th November 2004, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by elvis@Nov 7 2004, 05:40 PM
Wrong again, friend. There are dozens of groupware applications out there in the world that can plug into exchange.

Do you think exchange is magic? That it uses some unkown and completely unique method of authentication and data sharing? Exchange is nothing more than IMAP + LDAP + Kerberos, all of which have open-source equivalent libraries.

Nobody, and I really do mean NOBODY needs Microsoft.

is my work going to pay for these groupware applications???
they buy my laptop, they put windows on it. i use it.

your really missing my point, i agree with you, you can run a company&#39;s IT sector perfectly without using any microsoft. but i NEED to use microsoft because i am FORCED TO DO SO&#33; I said that i need to use outlook, because it&#39;s what has been given to me. if they gave me an option, by allowing me to use groupware applications, etc.. then i&#39;d go with it, but for now i have to settle with windows xp dualbooting into linux. i&#39;m not losing my job over being forced to use MS.

exchange is not magic, what gave you the impression i thought that??? it&#39;s shit house&#33; i hate it to death, i&#39;d rather be using regular SMTP and POP3, and if someone wants a meeting with me they can bloody well email me or call me rather than sending a meeting request. as with any microsoft product it&#39;s bloated with crappy features and weird bugs..

the_OM
7th November 2004, 08:50 PM
The feature I want the most in 10.4 (or OS X in general) is the ability to tab between dialogue box selections.
You know in windows when a dialogue box comes up and, for example, you have to select between the "OK" or "Cancel" buttons, and you are able to hit the tab button on the keyboard to change which one is selected...... well that small feature is the one I want the most in os x. I hate using the mouse for things like that.

Just out of interest, does anyone know if there&#39;s anyway to get that on os x?

Disko
7th November 2004, 09:38 PM
the_OM: System Prefs > Keyboard & Mouse > Keyboard shortucts > turn on full keyboard access. :)

the_OM
8th November 2004, 09:23 AM
god, thats it?
I&#39;ve been bitching about that feature not being in os x ever since I can remember&#33;

Thanks Disko.

OS X is complete for me now.

decryption
8th November 2004, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by internet@Nov 6 2004, 03:25 PM
no. i NEED to use exchange, thus i NEED to use outlook
i need to recieve meetings
i need to have an accessable calendar for co-workers to see your schedule
i need to have access to online address book

this is very much becoming a sad standard in many companies

if i don&#39;t have my calendar in outlook (which works into exhange server) open for people to access with my appointments and meetings in it, i get hounded with work, because my resource manager thinks i&#39;ve got no work&#33;

just an example of how people are forced to use MS&#33;
You could just use Entourage? http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/ento...d=entourage2004 (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/entourage2004/entourage2004.aspx?pid=entourage2004)

elvis
8th November 2004, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by internet@Nov 7 2004, 08:27 PM
your really missing my point, i agree with you, you can run a company&#39;s IT sector perfectly without using any microsoft. but i NEED to use microsoft because i am FORCED TO DO SO&#33;
If it matters strongly enough, you can quit. I did, and I&#39;m much happier.

Nobody controls you unless you let them. There are infinite choices available to you. :)

spargo
8th November 2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by decryption@Nov 7 2004, 11:37 PM
You could just use Entourage? http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/ento...d=entourage2004 (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/entourage2004/entourage2004.aspx?pid=entourage2004)
I do, and think that it is sensational.. I then use a syncing program I got from the Apple support/downloads site to replicate my Calender and Contacts between iCal and Address Book, and the respective areas in Entourage

All works well..

Disko
9th December 2004, 03:02 PM
As some of you know - there is a new developer build out. Here are some fixes:

Sources have provided us more detailed information about the recently seeded build 8A323 of Mac OS X Tiger beta.


Although the list of the known issues, of which I will not mention the content, is still quite big, this build brings a lot of bug fixes.


Here is the full list of the bugs that were fixed:
- Restarts fail after archive installs
- Long delay before loginwindow after an upgrade install.
- iChat doesn’t always see iSights and Mail might crash with an iSight plugged in.
- xCode will crash when removing break point in gutter
- Fonts added by users are not getting activated.
- Can’t click on toolbar items in some Carbon toolbars (e.g the toolbarin Finder’s preference window).
- Option to Enable Workgroup Management is displayed after logging inthrough Login Window. This will only appear on the initial login if you unclick “Enable Workgroup Management” and click “Remember my choice”.
- Server addresses don’t populate the address field in the “Connect To:” dialog when selecting from the “Favorite Servers” list. Just type the address in the field.
- Text in a Mail compose window may not appear to wrap if you have aspace at the end of the line.
- If you enable SMB file sharing, the passwords of anybody who logs inwill be rejected.
- If you run System Migration AFTER setting up a local user in the SetupAssistant, the migrated user won’t be able write to their own directories. Using System Migration DURING the Setup Assistant worksfine.
- Entourage 2004 deletes messages from IMAP.
- Once you lock an item in the Finder, you may not be able to unlock it (e.g. burnable folders).
- Spotlight may not work when logged into a network home directory.
- syslogd crashes on G3’s.
- Classic hangs on wake from sleep.

iluvmymactoo
9th December 2004, 03:11 PM
As with Panther I will pre-order Tiger when they announce it and then wait impatiently at the AppleCentre of the morning of release.

I&#39;ll drive home like a bat out of hell and spend the day installing and enjoy that "feels like a whole new Mac" feeling :rolleyes:

macmate
9th December 2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by iluvmymactoo@Dec 9 2004, 03:11 PM
As with Panther I will pre-order Tiger when they announce it and then wait impatiently at the AppleCentre of the morning of release.

I&#39;ll drive home like a bat out of hell and spend the day installing and enjoy that "feels like a whole new Mac" feeling :rolleyes:
couldn&#39;t have put it any better :)

Mark T
9th December 2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Comet@Nov 2 2004, 12:21 AM
Speaking of DHCP, has anyone had any success in the DHCP release button under Networks to actually do anything?
Yes.

When I was setting up my home network with the router assigning static IP addresses to particular macs, I seem to remember that clicking on this button got rid of the DHCP assigned address and replaced it with the new static address.


(Doh: just realised that I replied to a post that was over a month old&#33;)

LCGuy
9th December 2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by zefi@Nov 7 2004, 11:10 AM
Omg, that reminds me of one of the best old skool Apple ads&#33;

There are these tech support guys sitting around the table and they are all these answering calls with &#39;Windows Tech Support&#39; and then you hear them saying completely weird things like &#39;colon, backslash&#39; or &#39;you need to check the autoexec&#39;. And then you see the one guy who answers a call, &#39;Hello Mac support&#39; and then he pauses, &#39;Hey guys, this calls for you&#39;.

:)
I know, i love that ad, it reminds me of my job. :D Anyway, as much as i love Tiger, the real question for me is: Will it run on a tray load CRT iMac?

Phillip
10th December 2004, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by LCGuy@Dec 10 2004, 12:40 AM
I know, i love that ad, it reminds me of my job. :D Anyway, as much as i love Tiger, the real question for me is: Will it run on a tray load CRT iMac?
The System requirements as stands today says it requires a Mac with FireWire built in and a DVD Drive. I think the DVD requirement will drop but Firewire required will stay. Apple wants to support less and less hardware cause they need to sell the hardware as well&#33;

I am sure there will be a hack of some sort sort shortly after Tiger&#39;s release. ;)