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lawrencium
13th July 2013, 04:10 PM
Hi all,

I have recently discovered a Macintosh Color Classic (M1600) for sale on Gumtree. The seller specifies that it does not boot, though, and is asking for an offer rather than a set price.

It comes with a keyboard and carry case, and from what I can see in the provided images, it looks quite decent.

What would a reasonable/acceptable offer be on a vintage Macintosh of this sort?

Since I have never used or owned a vintage Mac before, would this be a good opportunity to start a collection/hobby?

Any opinions or suggestions? I trust that experienced vintage Mac collectors can assist me in my decision.

Thank you

PO15KA
13th July 2013, 05:15 PM
I might not be an expert on old macs and what needs to be repaired before this can be used but since its not working right now I would offer around $20-$30 I guess

tim
13th July 2013, 07:14 PM
If you could get it for $30 I'd certainly not pass it up.

The Colour Classic allows the motherboard to be pulled straight out the back with no tools.

This gives you access to the battery and ram also.

Go get it!

Byrd
13th July 2013, 07:39 PM
If completely "dead", it could just be that the power switch is not flicked over on the back, you need to power it on via keyboard. The edge connector where the motherboard can also be a little picky, reseating the motherboard and/or cleaning the contacts might also bring it back to life.

Good luck!

lawrencium
13th July 2013, 07:42 PM
Thank you for the responses. I have just contacted the owner asking what they would be willing to accept for the Mac.

Is there anything else I should ask/know before I make a decision?

I have never explored this area of computing/tech before.

Byrd
14th July 2013, 12:16 PM
Up the offer to $50 if need be; the CC is a great vintage machine to start out on. It's usually my first vintage machine to fire up when I feel the need - you can upgrade these to an LC575 board (basically quadruple the speed), and hack it to 640 x 480 resolution. The higher resolution still looks great on the little CRT and you can run any app of this era.

JB

tim
14th July 2013, 12:55 PM
If you get it for $50 and don't like it I would be happy to take it off your hands for the same!

You can't lose then...

lawrencium
14th July 2013, 04:24 PM
Update: I've received a reply from the seller, and they would be willing to accept $10 for the lot.

We are in the process of contacting them for further info.

Thanks for the valuable assistance.

Oldmacs
14th July 2013, 04:57 PM
GO for it!!!!!

lawrencium
14th July 2013, 07:33 PM
The person selling the Mac said that it "sometimes boots, and sometimes doesn't" - I'm guessing I will have to wait until I use it myself.

Would an Apple Desktop Bus Mouse be necessary as soon as I get the machine? (I'm guessing "Yes")

Does anyone here have one they would like to sell if/when I get the Mac?

Again, thank you all for your advice and suggestions.

Oldmacs
14th July 2013, 08:26 PM
Caps? Dodgy Harddrive?

Its a good sign if it does boot sometimes :)
Yes you will need an ADB mouse to use the machine, however you can perform limited actions with just a keyboard :)

cosmichobo
14th July 2013, 08:51 PM
Depending what version of the System is installed... you may be able to turn on Keypad Mouse - and control the cursor using the 1-9 keys on the keypad...

Press COMMAND SHIFT & CLEAR.

If it works, you should get an audible tone to signify that it's turned on/off. Then just try pressing one of the number keys on the keypad to see if the cursor moves.

I think later versions of the OS had this as an option that had to be made available in the System Preferences (Control Panel) first... But it might work.

neoxide
16th July 2013, 03:53 PM
The person selling the Mac said that it "sometimes boots, and sometimes doesn't" - I'm guessing I will have to wait until I use it myself.

Would an Apple Desktop Bus Mouse be necessary as soon as I get the machine? (I'm guessing "Yes")

Does anyone here have one they would like to sell if/when I get the Mac?

Again, thank you all for your advice and suggestions.

$10 is a great price, especially if it has a carry case. I'm not a fan of hugely inflated Mac prices (or any price at all generally).

I'll send you an ADB mouse or two for the price of postage, if you like. I also might have a LC 575 motherboard in 'stock' in case you every decide to do the 'Mystic' upgrade: Upgrading the Color Classic (http://chrislawson.net/writing/macdaniel/010523cl.shtml)

lawrencium
18th July 2013, 12:09 PM
I'll send you an ADB mouse or two for the price of postage, if you like. I also might have a LC 575 motherboard in 'stock' in case you every decide to do the 'Mystic' upgrade: Upgrading the Color Classic (http://chrislawson.net/writing/macdaniel/010523cl.shtml)

Thank you, neoxide. I will keep this in mind.

I am currently researching the potential upgrades for the Color Classic - they seem to be the main selling point of the computer nowadays.

Will post an update when I acquire the Mac. Should be within the next week or so.

lawrencium
19th July 2013, 01:04 PM
Update: I received the Colour Classic yesterday evening - and as expected, it will not power on. Otherwise, it is in excellent condition.


I have read various articles and suggestions on numerous websites, including leaving it plugged in overnight.

As of this morning, it still won't boot. I am also aware that the motherboard section at the rear of the machine can be easily removed, and access other internals is also quite easy.

So, what would the next steps be to try and get the Mac to start up?
Also to note, I have made sure that the rear power switch is 'ON' and I do have the ADB Keyboard connected.

cosmichobo
19th July 2013, 01:34 PM
PRAM battery...? Likely will be dead... might be an issue

lawrencium
19th July 2013, 01:39 PM
Would you recommend removing the PRAM battery and trying to turn it on? Or will it not work unless there is a battery installed?

Byrd
19th July 2013, 01:43 PM
It'll boot without a PRAM battery. Best to throw out the one that is in there too. Remove the rear port cover, slide out the motherboard, blow off 15+ years of dust and around the edge connector inside. Reseat the motherboard firmly. Try again :)

lawrencium
19th July 2013, 01:46 PM
Thank you, I will try this and post an update here soon.

This will be an interesting project.

tim
19th July 2013, 06:48 PM
You are turning it on from the keyboard and it's not working so maybe there is a bit of leakage from the capacitors- pretty common.

If you look at the circuit board in the light you may see some residue around the capacitors. I have had some success with cleaning the residue and getting a colour classic to boot.

If that's the problem it will need recapping at some stage then- no big deal.

lawrencium
19th July 2013, 07:45 PM
Thanks for the suggestion. Although it decided to power on this afternoon, after being plugged in for almost 24 hours.

It boots with the chime, the "Smiley Mac" symbol, then presents me with a login screen titled 'At Ease' - which seems to be from when it was used for educational purposes.

Is there any way to remove this software/program and return it to a regular version of Mac OS?

cosmichobo
19th July 2013, 08:19 PM
Woot! Working Colour Classic for $10! Gawd I'd never have imagined buying one for so little when I saw them unveiled at Apple Centre Darwin 20 years ago...

From memory, you could return to the normal Finder using... the control panel? Though it may be password protected...?

If you google At Ease, you might find a tutorial all about it. I remember finding ways around it when I was in school... :)

Possibly - boot with Extensions Off (now known as Safe Mode - hold the shift key during startup) - might disable it.

Time to crack out some classic Bungie titles... :)

lawrencium
18th August 2013, 06:08 PM
Hi all,

Since my last post, I have managed to acquire an ADB Mouse II from a fellow MacTalk member. This makes using the Mac much easier, as you would already know.

However, I am in need of some assistance regarding the operating system and the removal/bypass of the 'At Ease' software designed to limit the user's use of the Mac.

I have since tried cosmichobo's method (thank you, by the way):
Possibly - boot with Extensions Off (now known as Safe Mode - hold the shift key during startup) - might disable it. though this only gets me as far as a message notifying me of 'Extensions off' mode, but I am presented with a dialogue box asking for an administrator's password to continue.

My lengthy web searches have lead me to very few alternatives, such as booting from a floppy/external disk. I have not been able to find a copy of System 7.x on a compatible floppy thus far, even through eBay Australia & International.

What should my next step be? Any suggestions or experience from other vintage Mac users is appreciated.

Regards,
Lawrence250

cosmichobo
18th August 2013, 08:42 PM
Apple does/did have old versions of their OS on their website, though they're very hard to find. The Color Classic handles 7.1 - 7.6...

I'm not sure if this is 7.5.3 full, or just an update... But worth a shot (as all the other links I can find are dead...)

Index of /Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3 (http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3/)

(If that link comes up with a "We're sorry" page, just try re-load it... It's strange - one second it works, then it's gone...)

If no use, try this page as at least some kind of springboard:

Classic Mac OS Downloads and Updates (http://lowendmac.com/macos.shtml)

Once you've got the software of course, you need to get it onto the computer... "Easiest" option would be a USB floppy drive... but not sure how common they are now, and if they'll work any more, as floppy drives only live so long at the best of times. I have one such drive buried somewhere... No idea where though I'm afraid, and it's been 3-4 years since I last tested it.

Other than that... Without full access to the computer's operating system, you're really pretty limited...

I'd be very surprised if there's no way around that password... Using an instal disk would of course be the legitimate way, but... Surely someone here used to hack their school computers running At Ease? :}

cosmichobo
18th August 2013, 09:52 PM
Forget all that - try these:

Disabling At Ease (http://lowendmac.com/macdan/010319mm.html)

complete atease hacking (http://www.securemac.com/data/com_atease_jibblit.htm)

Deleting At Ease on a Macintosh Classic II (http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2011-08-6-handling-at-ease.htm)

Or if/when you get a working system diskette:


If you forget the administrator password

If you forget the At Ease administrator password, follow the
instructions below instead of those in the manual.

Note: If your startup disk is locked, youll first need to run the
Unlock program on the At Ease 2.0.3 Utilities disk to unlock the
startup disk. Consult the At Ease 2.0 for Workgroups Administrators
Guide for information about the Unlock program.

1. Start up your computer from another startup disk. You can use any
disk that has system software on it. (See the manual that came with
your computer for instructions on choosing a startup disk.) If your
computer came with a floppy disk called Disk Tools, you can use this
disk.

2. Open the System Folder of your usual startup disk.

3. Open the At Ease Items folder inside your System Folder.

4. Drag the At Ease Preferences file to the Trash.

5. Hold down the Option key while you choose Empty Trash from the
Special menu.

6. Restart from your usual startup disk.

7. Open the At Ease Setup for Workgroups application. If you are
using an AppleShare file server as the At Ease disk, your setups may
not appear until you reset the At Ease disk to this file server.

8. If necessary, reconnect to the file server and use the At Ease Disk
command to reselect the server. Make sure you use the information on
the server instead of replacing it with the information on the startup
disk.

9. Choose Administrator Password from the Options menu.

10. In the middle and lower boxes, type a new password. Then click OK.
You can type up to 15 characters. As you type, dots () appear in place
of the text so that anyone nearby will be unable to see what password
you have typed. Be sure to choose a password that only you would know.

11. If you wish, click inside the lower box and type a clue that will
help you remember your new password. You can type up to 63 characters.
The clue will appear each time you are asked to provide the
administrator password. As with the password itself, be sure to choose
a clue that only you will recognize.

12. Click OK. In the future you will need to provide the administrator
password before you can use the At Ease Setup program. You can change
the password at any timebut only after entering the original password.

13. Choose Security from the Options menu.

14. If you wish, turn on the following options. Then click OK.
Allow remote administration Lock startup volume

15. Turn At Ease back on by clicking the On button.

16. Choose Quit from the File menu to leave the At Ease for Workgroups
program.

macman142
19th August 2013, 11:36 AM
Good info!

Ahh AtEase... I'd want to just re-instal the OS personally. BUT I remember it being a pain last time with my Colour Classic, as it was a bit touchy about what it'd boot from and what it wouldn't...

Fairly sure I ended up using an external SCSI CD-ROM and OS 7.6...? That was before my Colour Classic eventually died (logic board caps)...

Though, I do have the original floppies that came with my Colour Classic, some variation of System 7.1 I think...?

And I have a USB floppy drive. Am I allowed to make duplicates of these discs? Don't see why not...?

cosmichobo
19th August 2013, 01:28 PM
IMO as Apple offers them for free on their site, I dont see any issue RE copying them...

lawrencium
19th August 2013, 09:45 PM
Thank you for your extremely helpful input.

From what I have gathered from my research, it seems as though having a copy of the OS install disks and/or an external SCSI drive is the only way to truly bypass/remove At Ease. That would make sense, it seems.

As previously noted, I have been searching for original System 7.x install floppies, though they seem to be non-existent/rare or in CD format.

Would the best option be to purchase an external SCSI hard drive, somehow get System 7 onto it and boot the Colour Classic from there?

Again, thank you for all of your input. I apologise if this all seems rather trivial.

cosmichobo
19th August 2013, 10:32 PM
I'd be inclined to go for an external SCSI CD-ROM... as that's the end solution. Download the software, put it on a CD, and you're happy.

If you go with the HDD, then you need a way to get the data onto it... which wont be easy these days... (I think!?)

macman142
20th August 2013, 03:03 PM
Well, if I'm not breaking any site rules or laws then I'm happy to duplicate my Colour Classic floppy disc set for a nominal fee...?

Only if it will solve your issue and you're happy to re-instal...?

lawrencium
21st August 2013, 01:27 PM
Well, if I'm not breaking any site rules or laws then I'm happy to duplicate my Colour Classic floppy disc set for a nominal fee...?

Thank you macman, if this offer is indeed allowable, I will definitely keep it in mind.

I'm assuming that a re-install of the OS will remove the At Ease software and restore the Colour Classic to it's original state.

macman142
21st August 2013, 03:26 PM
Yes, it will replace the restricted operating system (and AtEase) and re-instal the factory default system configuration.

lawrencium
12th January 2014, 07:29 PM
Well, if I'm not breaking any site rules or laws then I'm happy to duplicate my Colour Classic floppy disc set for a nominal fee...?

Only if it will solve your issue and you're happy to re-instal...?

Hi macman142,

I'm thinking of restoring my Colour Classic's OS now that I have some time to do so.

If it's allowed, does your offer still stand for a copy of Mac OS 7.6.1 on a floppy disk (as said, for a nominal fee)?

Thank you again, to everyone, for all of your help.

macman142
13th January 2014, 01:45 PM
The instal floppies I have for my Colour Classic are System 7.1 I believe, I can supply you with duplicates if required.

I don't have a copy of 7.6 on floppies (only CD but then you need an external CD drive, and I *think* a fair bit of fiddling about for it to be bootable, unless an Apple-badged external SCSI CD drive)...?

7.1 on floppies would certainly be the easiest way out.

lawrencium
13th January 2014, 02:22 PM
That would be good thank you. I'll PM you for further discussion.