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sillydog701
18th August 2004, 12:54 AM
Netscape 7.2 released

What's New in Netscape 7.2 (http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/browsing.jsp):
* improved junk mail controls
* popup controls
* international domain name support
* image zoom, fit to window
* Mail views
* developer tools
* Speed and stability enhancements

Mac OS X installer (ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape7/english/7.2/mac/macosx/sea/Netscape-MachO.dmg.gz) (full/offline installer) 17.3MB

System requirement:
Mac OS X 10.1.x, Mac OS X 10.2.x and later
PowerPC 400 MHz, G3, G4, 256 MB RAM, 60 MB of free hard disk space

elvis
18th August 2004, 08:45 AM
People still use netscape? I would have thought that with Safari, Camino and Mozilla Firefox there's not much reason to use a slower, more bloated browser.

decryption
18th August 2004, 11:25 AM
Yeah, Netscape is dead. Dead dead dead.

sillydog701
18th August 2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by decryption@Aug 18 2004, 11:25 AM
Yeah, Netscape is dead. Dead dead dead.
It was Netscape that changed the way people use internet.

It was Netscape to open up its source code, otherwise, there won't be Mozilla at all.
And it was Netscape feeding the Mozilla.org for years.

Disko
18th August 2004, 12:16 PM
Yep. and now its dead. :)

elvis
18th August 2004, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by sillydog701+Aug 18 2004, 11:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sillydog701 @ Aug 18 2004, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-decryption@Aug 18 2004, 11:25 AM
Yeah, Netscape is dead. Dead dead dead.
It was Netscape that changed the way people use internet.

It was Netscape to open up its source code, otherwise, there won&#39;t be Mozilla at all.
And it was Netscape feeding the Mozilla.org for years. [/b][/quote]
It was also Netscape who did some horrid business moves like partnering with Warner Brothers / Time Warner / AOL. Talk about being controlled by one of the biggest bastard corporate monopolies in the world&#33;

The beauty of Mozilla is that they are controlled by Joe Public, which is you and me. That&#39;s the way software should be - goverened by the users. Not goverened by stupid rich white men who want to control the way the interent works.

</soapbox>

sillydog701
18th August 2004, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by elvis@Aug 18 2004, 09:36 PM
The beauty of Mozilla is that they are controlled by Joe Public, which is you and me. That&#39;s the way software should be - goverened by the users.
That&#39;s not true. If you&#39;ve been to Mozilla for long you will know their dirty secret.

elvis
21st August 2004, 12:10 PM
I&#39;ve never had troubles with Mozilla and the directions they&#39;ve taken. Firefox is the best browser I&#39;ve ever had the pleasure of using, and I&#39;ve used it as my default browser on Windows/Linux since the early 0.5.X betas.

Pre that I&#39;ve used a variety of browsers on many platforms without any satisfaction. Netscape (bloated), Chameleon (great potential but slow development), Chimera/Camino, Konqueror, Galeon (all not polished), Mozilla (better than netscape, but still bloated), Opera (just bloody awful), Lynx (teehee), etc, etc.

At the end of the day the numbers speak for themselves. Firefox is really taking the web by storm on a multitude of platforms, and people are migrating to it in hoards. If I test webpages for layout, I&#39;ll always test them in IE, Safari and Firefox. That&#39;s 95% or more of the web market right there.

The trends show that the more the big corporates try to control the market, the more the market grows it&#39;s own collective dissatisfaction and buggers off to the alternatives. Netscape learned that the hard way. Microsoft are in the process of learning it. They announced no new IE until Longhorn. All of a sudden they see people running away from IE6 in droves, and IE7 is announced&#33; The people have spoken.

Disko
21st August 2004, 02:06 PM
IE7? I haven&#39;t heard of that one yet. Got a link? :)

Ozi
21st August 2004, 02:44 PM
Well I can find version 5: http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/inte...nternetexplorer (http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/internetexplorer/internetexplorer.aspx?pid=internetexplorer) but I think version 7 may be a way off for the mac platform. :rolleyes:

Disko
21st August 2004, 02:50 PM
yeah, i think elvis was referring to PC v7

Currawong
21st August 2004, 04:00 PM
Netscape uses the same code as Mozilla, which uses the same code as Firefox. The difference between them is how many features are included. Firefox only has the bare minimum, Mozilla has a comprehensive set and Netscape has a similar comprehensive set of features included, but is usually using not the latest Mozilla code, but code from a couple of versions previous.

elvis
21st August 2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Currawong@Aug 21 2004, 04:00 PM
Netscape uses the same code as Mozilla, which uses the same code as Firefox. The difference between them is how many features are included.
Not quite. All of them use the GRE - Gecko Rendering Engine / Mozilla Rendering Engine / whatever they call it this week:

http://www.mozilla.org/newlayout/faq.html

That basically controls how HTML/XML (and other associated scripts and plugins) are rendered graphically to a screen. The actual code that goes into the rest of the browsers&#39; various bits and peices are different.

That said, Mozilla and Netwcape are quite similar. Mozilla-Firefox is much more different to the other two at a code level.

IE7 (for Windows) was mentioned on a Slashdot article a while back. Basically it mentioned that due to the pressure of people on the Windows platform moving to Firefox in droves, Microsoft was considering pushing IE7 as a separate download and not just for Longhorn. Let me google about and try to find the article. It did sound quite rumour-mill-ish. No confirmations of any description.

This all goes directly against what Microsoft have said of course, in that IE7 will be "Longhorn only" due to it&#39;s design around Aero (the Aqua / Quartz Extreme ripoff). I guess time will tell.

On the Mac side of things, Microsoft did say that they refused to make another browser for Mac ever again. Amusingly they cited that Apple wasn&#39;t being helpful, and that Microsoft could never compete on the same platform without access to Aqua code which meant they would always make an inferior browser. Pot, meet kettle.

Cam
21st August 2004, 11:15 PM
Ahh regarding IE7. I was under the impression that it would not be offered as a seperate download due to its tight integration with Windows Longhorn.. In that case IE7 = 2006?

Note: Mozilla used old Netscape source-code to make their browser.

elvis
22nd August 2004, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by Cam@Aug 21 2004, 11:15 PM
Note: Mozilla used old Netscape source-code to make their browser.
Where do you get this tripe?

The Mozilla source code is OPEN SOURCE. There is no "old" code. The source code pool is submitted via CVS by the development team. Anyone can use it to make other projects. Today&#39;s netscape is built from this same source.

Sorry for the outburst. I think a few folks have some gross misconceptions about how open source works, and how devlopers share code and ideas to make applications.

elvis
22nd August 2004, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by Cam@Aug 21 2004, 11:15 PM
Ahh regarding IE7. I was under the impression that it would not be offered as a seperate download due to its tight integration with Windows Longhorn.. In that case IE7 = 2006?
Story # 1:
"IE6 SP1 Will Be Last Standalone Version"
http://slashdot.org/articles/03/05/31/1650...&tid=126&tid=95 (http://slashdot.org/articles/03/05/31/1650206.shtml?tid=113&tid=126&tid=95)

Story # 2:
"MSIE 7 May Beat Longhorn Out The Gate"
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/0...3&tid=154&tid=1 (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/08/2357243&tid=113&tid=154&tid=1)

Opera, Safari, Mozilla-Firefox, etc, etc all support new W3C standard features that IE does not. RSS, SVG support, future XHTML platforms, blah blah blah.

Microsoft are feeling the heat, and may well be pressured to release IE7 early. Note: that&#39;s not etched in stone, and is a rumour at best. But it&#39;s interesting to see it in discussion all the same.

Quamen
22nd August 2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by elvis+Aug 22 2004, 09:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (elvis @ Aug 22 2004, 09:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cam@Aug 21 2004, 11:15 PM
Note: Mozilla used old Netscape source-code to make their browser.
Where do you get this tripe?

The Mozilla source code is OPEN SOURCE. There is no "old" code. The source code pool is submitted via CVS by the development team. Anyone can use it to make other projects. Today&#39;s netscape is built from this same source.

Sorry for the outburst. I think a few folks have some gross misconceptions about how open source works, and how devlopers share code and ideas to make applications. [/b][/quote]
Strange you say this. When I am quite sure that Mozilla etc. would not even exhist in the form they do today if Netscape had not released their source code a few years ago.

Netscape may be based on the mozilla source now, but when mozilla first started it was based on the netscape code that was released.

elvis
22nd August 2004, 06:37 PM
I&#39;m lost...

We all seem to be talking about Mozilla 5+ years ago. Mozilla today (here, now, this moment) is not old code. Sure, I think Netscape did the smart thing in opening their source code to the world all those years ago. And yes, yay for them for enabling the Mozilla project to be what it is today.

But lets think about it for a moment: 1995: Netscape the once internet giant faces pending corporate doom due to Microsoft&#39;s IE3 and IE4 browsers ripping through the market. Netscape have no choice but to either abandon ship, or appeal to the masses of folk who can help them by opening their source. They take the latter option, and the Mozilla project is born.

Mozilla takes off. First as code-only, and then emerging as usable binaries on the web. It&#39;s finally a whole application that can be used. Netscape realise that their generation 4 software is way to old and bloated, and their generation 6 software is just as bad (if not worse). Meanwhile the lean and mean Mozilla beast has taken leaps and bounds past what is currently Netscape&#39;s best efforts. Netscape in turn use the Mozilla code to re-invent their browser as the new "generation 7" that we see today.

So yes, Mozilla started from Netscape code. Yay. Wee. Huzzah. Mozilla today is a totally different beast. It&#39;s like saying MacOSX 10.3 is crap because 10.0 sucked so much. I mean really... things change. And they do so a lot faster in IT than anywhere else. While Netscape had their part in the history of the web browser, they certainly will not be on my desktop in the near future, while the Mozilla team continue to produce software like Firefox and Thunderbird.

Again, I think many of you need to better understand the process of software development, and in particular software lifecycles and code revisions.

stickman67
23rd August 2004, 10:39 PM
I kinda like Safari. But that&#39;s just me. B)

mbd
23rd August 2004, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by elvis@Aug 18 2004, 09:36 PM
It was also Netscape who did some horrid business moves like partnering with Warner Brothers / Time Warner / AOL. Talk about being controlled by one of the biggest bastard corporate monopolies in the world&#33;
Netscape didn&#39;t partner with WB/TWX/AOL - they were bought by AOL (who later merged/bought Time Warner), much to the disappointment of a lot of the staff at the time. It was necessary pretty much though, as Microsoft (through it&#39;s monopolistic behaviour) had reduced Netscape&#39;s ability to operate in the free market to the point where had it not been bought, it probably would have faded away.

mbd
23rd August 2004, 11:29 PM
But lets think about it for a moment: 1995: Netscape the once internet giant faces pending corporate doom due to Microsoft&#39;s IE3 and IE4 browsers ripping through the market. Netscape have no choice but to either abandon ship, or appeal to the masses of folk who can help them by opening their source. They take the latter option, and the Mozilla project is born.


Err, I think you have your dates wrong there. Netscape open sourced its browser code in January 1998. The beginning of their &#39;giant&#39;ness was in 1995 when they had the 3rd largest IPO in the NASDAQs history. And, by the time they did open source the code, they&#39;d already tried fighting against Microsoft&#39;s unfair practices in other ways; for example, through advertising revenue on the netscape.com website and through the development and sale of enterprise level internet server software...



Netscape realise that their generation 4 software is way to old and bloated, and their generation 6 software is just as bad (if not worse). Meanwhile the lean and mean Mozilla beast has taken leaps and bounds past what is currently Netscape&#39;s best efforts. Netscape in turn use the Mozilla code to re-invent their browser as the new "generation 7" that we see today.


Netscape 6 was also based on mozilla code. It was just an older milestone of mozilla code that was used as the basis for version 6. By the time it was released Mozilla&#39;s source tree had matured quite a lot and the difference was quite noticable.