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  1. #641

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    OK, first of all I have never heard the idea that spokes snap because of unbalanced rotation. Unless the Monkeylectrics attach tightly enough to cause significant stress raisers on the spoke, at the attachment point, and the spoke breaks at the attachment point, the smoking gun does not point to anything simian.

    Spokes usually break from fatigue. Spokes will break sooner if they are not stress relieved during the wheelbuild, if there are too few spokes for the kind of usage, or if the usage is especially hard or heavy. The vast majority of bikes have machine-built wheels which are generally not stress-relieved as well as handbuilts. This is an inevitable byproduct of the price point -- wheels shouldn't fail willy-nilly, but if you want bulletproof you have to pay more.

    So:
    1) it's probably not warranty but wear and tear;
    2) the bike shop guy is full of crap;
    3) regardless of 1), the remainder of your warranty period should not be revoked for a spurious reason.
    "He could already picture the YouTube page…and, underneath the little video pane, the first of many thousands of all-capital-letter comments sent in by all the world's useless fuckwits." --Neal Stephenson, Reamde

  2. #642
    scottgrot's Avatar scottgrot is offline Idiot

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    Hey Oren,
    There seems like a few different issues going on.

    1. Broken Spoke.
    2. That idiots behaviour.
    3. I don't see the lights as an issue. More a smoke screen to avoid issue 1.

    Broken spokes are rare but they do happen.
    Aside--you can still ride the bike with a broken spoke. ( I have had 4 brake before I fixed them).
    I would judge that a bike that old shouldn't brake any spokes.

    A spoke is about $1-ish to replace.

    And a broken spoke doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the wheel will break. Bike shop guy should have explained this to you.

    Best bet is to replace said broken spoke, check the tension in the rest of the spokes and be on your way.

    This is what I think you should push with fair trade.
    It is unfortunate that the guy is an idiot, but that is a different issue that needs addressing seperately.

    Make sure it is documented that the lights have never effected your other two bikes and for how long.

    Unfortunately it seems like a massive issue for a simple fix.

    I wouldn't trust the guy to do a proper job fixing it either, given his effable character.

    Let me know how it goes.

    [EDIT]

    I was thinking more about this and that the broken spoke might be seen as normal wear and tear. Hence not covered under warranty. However, bike shop tosser could have offered to charge parts and free labour, a quick 10min job and you are out of his hair and likely to come back again and again because they look after you.

    And also, I agree with everything hangdog said.
    Cheers

  3. #643

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    I use that store and have been back for two "warranty repairs" on my Avanti Explorer 2, I take it you are talking about the guy with the American/Canadian accent.

    I had no issues with my repairs, mind you they were only minor but were handled with no fuss. They replaced my pedals on the spot and I had it in for a fix on a bottom bracket. I did note on my last visit there now is a sign stating "we reserve the right to refuse service"...which I thought was strange.

  4. #644
    ClockWork's Avatar ClockWork is offline I'm the Urban Spaceman, baby

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    Nothin to see here. Move along.
    Last edited by ClockWork; 3rd June 2012 at 11:38 AM.

  5. #645

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork View Post
    Have you had any one-on-one experiences with him, and without the manager there, ajbeardy?
    Last time I dealt with him with no issues, he has always been okay with me. i don't think I have dealt with the Manager when I have been back since I bought the bike. I have been quite a few times to buy accessories.

  6. #646

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    I've wanted to get into road cycling for a while (actually, probably more mountain biking) but I'm put off by the prices of the bikes these days. Gone are the days of a $300 BMX? Yeah, I know you can get cheaper bikes to start off with but within a month or two you're like "Damn, why didn't I get that one...".

    Do many of you guys import your parts? From what I've heard UK sites are apparently awesome for sourcing bits and pieces, or even full bikes.
    If you're interested in helping with a new Aussie forum let me know! http://offtopic.com.au/

  7. #647
    ClockWork's Avatar ClockWork is offline I'm the Urban Spaceman, baby

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    From my experience, things change over 6 months, and if you should ever disagree to forward your own point of view, the trouble begins.

    ---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by OTAU View Post
    I've wanted to get into road cycling for a while (actually, probably more mountain biking) but I'm put off by the prices of the bikes these days. Gone are the days of a $300 BMX? Yeah, I know you can get cheaper bikes to start off with but within a month or two you're like "Damn, why didn't I get that one...".
    One does get what one pays for where the bike itself is concerned, yet I personally see little advantage in purchasing a feather light carbon framed shark for $2,000 or over, as it completely removes the fitness aspect.
    The lighter the bike, the less effort, and me - perhaps odd in my way of thinking - well - I like the effort.
    It has a definite positive psychological effect on my mind scape.

    The general rule appears to be, the heavier the frame of the bike, the cheaper it will be - unless you're going for something with whistles and bells like dual suspension, as you will find in mountain bikes such as Mongoose (Mongeese?) and naturally these models are designed to be sadistically trounced.

    The best thing to do is to decide what you really want to use a bike for.
    I went with the Avanti Verge, because it serves as both an off-road / commuting mountain bike, sturdy and under $1,000.
    Since then, I've changed the tyres to Maxxis Overdrives and changed the seat to something more comfy, but all over time - to when I can afford it.

    Quote Originally Posted by OTAU View Post
    Do many of you guys import your parts? From what I've heard UK sites are apparently awesome for sourcing bits and pieces, or even full bikes.
    I don't know what others do here, but I import through Chain Reaction. I think they're in Ireland.
    The prices for parts are at least a quarter of what we pay here in Australia and their shipping is just amazingly fast! ::thumbs up::
    Lorks! Oh lordy! My bottom's on fire!!
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  8. #648
    melbmac's Avatar melbmac is offline Not banned yet....

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    My 2c (used to work in the industry)...

    The spoke its self... Frankly I would agree that it is probably not warranty but not necessarily because of the lights you've attached to them. Although I agree (in theory) attaching these gizmos to spokes could potentially cause a problem, I really, really doubt it (and good luck proving it without doubt either way). What I do disagree with is the way this guy denied help under "warranty", he could at least offer a repair to keep you riding (replacing a single spoke is not difficult or expensive) while the problems was sorted properly.

    The main issue here is the horrific service IMO, not sure how best to deal with that. Have you tried approaching Avanti Australia directly? I am more than aware of how their business model works in regards to the stores, but there has been a fair bit of good feedback on the way they handle these things. I don't actually think for a second Avanti will have a problem sorting this problem out one way or another, the problem is the douche bag you've had to deal with thus far.

    ---------- Post added at 06:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by OTAU View Post
    I've wanted to get into road cycling for a while (actually, probably more mountain biking) but I'm put off by the prices of the bikes these days. Gone are the days of a $300 BMX? Yeah, I know you can get cheaper bikes to start off with but within a month or two you're like "Damn, why didn't I get that one...".

    Do many of you guys import your parts? From what I've heard UK sites are apparently awesome for sourcing bits and pieces, or even full bikes.
    Cycling like a lot of sports is more about a pissing contest than anything else, if you don't get involved with that then you should be fine. There are plenty of capable bikes out there for not much money (relatively).

    In terms of importing parts.... I import some stuff, everyone does, but on most things I buy local and there have been plenty of occasions where the benefit I have received through having a relationship with my local bike shop has far out weight the financial saving from buying online. Worth considering.

    Wiggle is also worth considering if you do want to buy online.

  9. #649
    ClockWork's Avatar ClockWork is offline I'm the Urban Spaceman, baby

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    Quote Originally Posted by melbmac View Post
    The main issue here is the horrific service IMO, not sure how best to deal with that. Have you tried approaching Avanti Australia directly?
    Sir - that is a brilliant idea, with just one tiny draw-back.
    The Avanti company has a hidden telephone number / location.

    Google it. =P

    As for the douche bag, he claims there is a strict policy which states that no customer is allowed to contact Avanti directly, and naturally, he will not reveal the names of Avanti's directors, nor their e-mails.

    My best bet is to talk directly with the manager when he gets back from his holiday, as I've never had a problem discussing anything with this "super people friendly person".

    My other idea may be a little bit dangerous...



    AddIt: Yeah - Wiggle is also a good place to purchase.
    Lorks! Oh lordy! My bottom's on fire!!
    [Joan of Arc -
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  10. #650

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork View Post
    Sir - that is a brilliant idea, with just one tiny draw-back.
    The Avanti company has a hidden telephone number / location.

    Google it. =P

    As for the douche bag, he claims there is a strict policy which states that no customer is allowed to contact Avanti directly, and naturally, he will not reveal the names of Avanti's directors, nor their e-mails.
    Avanti's general contact page is here: Contact Us | AvantiPlus Online Bike Shop

    Avanti is a division of Sheppard Industries from New Zealand so I'm not really sure if you're going to get hold of a director that easily. But I don't know why the guy in the shop says no-one is allowed to contact Avanti directly when there is a public contact page. Maybe I'm drawing a long bow, but perhaps it's because he's been lying to you about Avanti's verdict on your wheel and your bike's warranty period, and doesn't want to be found out.
    "He could already picture the YouTube page…and, underneath the little video pane, the first of many thousands of all-capital-letter comments sent in by all the world's useless fuckwits." --Neal Stephenson, Reamde

  11. #651
    ClockWork's Avatar ClockWork is offline I'm the Urban Spaceman, baby

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    Quote Originally Posted by hangdog View Post
    Avanti's general contact page is here: Contact Us | AvantiPlus Online Bike Shop
    Ah... thank you very much hangdog. I will make contact ASAP.

    Quote Originally Posted by hangdog View Post
    Maybe I'm drawing a long bow, but perhaps it's because he's been lying to you about Avanti's verdict on your wheel and your bike's warranty period, and doesn't want to be found out.
    I think you're right.
    I think that he thinks this is a personal issue between him and me, and he wants to grind my face in the dirt over it.

    On my last visit to the store, I asked him if he really believed that there was some kind of a personal dispute between myself and him, on the basis that I had disagreed with his point of view. He said that this question would lead us no where.

    In other words... he avoided answering this very simple question.

    I'll keep you all informed over this problem by next weekend.
    Lorks! Oh lordy! My bottom's on fire!!
    [Joan of Arc -
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  12. #652

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    I recall this is not the first time you have had an issue with spokes and monkeylectrics, and to me it just confirms that they put undie stress on the spokes by being tied across 2 spokes

  13. #653

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    Quote Originally Posted by forno View Post
    I recall this is not the first time you have had an issue with spokes and monkeylectrics, and to me it just confirms that they put undie stress on the spokes by being tied across 2 spokes
    Given that he has other MonkeyLectric-equippped bikes without spoke breakage, and that most spoke breakages occur on the vast majority of bikes that don't have MonkeyLectrics, that conclusion might be hasty.
    "He could already picture the YouTube page…and, underneath the little video pane, the first of many thousands of all-capital-letter comments sent in by all the world's useless fuckwits." --Neal Stephenson, Reamde

  14. #654
    ClockWork's Avatar ClockWork is offline I'm the Urban Spaceman, baby

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    Indeed.
    All the spoking problems I've raised here, have been isolated to Avanti Mountain bikes only, both with or without MonkeyLectric brackets... which begins to raise a suspicion that "some" of Avanti's wheels may contain a machined flaw.

    In the case of my cycling friend losing spokes, she tested her Avanti Mountain bike both with and without MonkeyLectrics, and she popped more spokes without the MonkeyLectrics attached.

    I'm am currently seeking a civil and diplomatic solution with one of the owners in the Avanti contact link hangdog posted here.
    Will post the end result.

    AddIt: What does "undie" strength have to do with my spoking issues, forno? Are you suggesting my Y fronts are too constrictive? =P
    Lorks! Oh lordy! My bottom's on fire!!
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  15. #655
    melbmac's Avatar melbmac is offline Not banned yet....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork View Post
    Sir - that is a brilliant idea, with just one tiny draw-back.
    The Avanti company has a hidden telephone number / location.

    Google it. =P
    I'll give you a clue...

    Avanti Bicycle Company Pty Ltd

    Google it. =P

    Managed to find their details quite easily, hope you have some luck with them!
    Last edited by melbmac; 27th April 2012 at 06:57 PM.

  16. #656
    ClockWork's Avatar ClockWork is offline I'm the Urban Spaceman, baby

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    Default Update on difficult situation

    Yes - thank you melbmac - hangdog jumped in a week ago and gave me the directions =)

    Okay - I contacted the Warranty Manager of Sheppard Cycles.
    He also agreed with unnamed Avantiplus employee that the warranty had to be voided because MonkeyLectric brackets were the obvious cause... however - after a number of lengthy telephone discussions, he also agreed that spokes can break without brackets - that a couple of pot-holes would do the trick, thus invalidating the entire theory.

    He told me that a new rear wheel would be sent out to the store for free as "an act of goodwill".
    I feel that this was an unusual direction for two persons so hell bent on a flimsy theory, if you get my drift.

    He told me that he would send the new wheel to the out-let and they would notify me when it got there.

    Today, they notified me... but... they (the employee in question) had not replaced the rear wheel at all, and instead, had decided to repair two broken spokes on the original wheel, void the warranty and have me pay for the two replacement spokes.

    Called the Warranty Manager and asked why this decision had been made over the goodwill promise from four days before.
    He told me that they gave him the wrong information and ordered in a rear wheel with disc brakes, and mine has v-brakes, so to save time, they promised to re-spoke the entire original wheel free of charge.

    I told him that they hadn't re-spoked the entire wheel, but had replaced only two spokes and that I was expected to pay for those spokes... at which point he went silent for around 20 seconds.
    (I expect it was at this point that he realized that said employee really is doing pretty much anything he pleases, and he cannot argue with him either - no more than I can).

    Warranty Manager then tells me he will send a new 26" wheel for a v-brake mountain bike out there by next week, and then tells me he will notify the employee at Avantiplus.

    5 minutes later, I receive a further call from the Warranty Manager asking if it were possible to send the wheel straight to my home or work address, so that I can pick up my slightly re-spoked wheel, ride it home and do the change over myself as it's pretty easy.

    Also... that he suggests I pick up my bike ASAP and leave the shop as quickly as possible.

    Interesting?

    So naturally, I ask, "Do I understand that my warranty is void and I'm now effectively black-listed from the store?"

    He tells me he is unable to divulge this information!

    Just gets better and better, don't it??

    Think about it. Over three weeks to replace two spokes on a bike with warranty on it and I still have to pay.

    As to the fully detailed report I was promised by both the employee and the Warranty Manager which was in the form of your garden variety email, I have now been told that they are unable to show me the report of their findings because it was deleted on both the employee's computer and on the Warranty Manager's computer.

    Why????

    Wait for it.... because it was taking up too much Hard Drive space.
    I'm not shitting you guys.
    That was actually the answer.

    So now I'm thinking... there are basically two possibilities for this vast furphy:

    1. There never was a report of why the spokes popped, thus invalidating the theory that the MonkeyLectric brackets were definitely the cause, and all of this "so called report" was purely an over-the-phone bit of verbal banter most probably about what a wanker I am and how dare I use MonkeyLectric brackets.

    2. If there really was an emailed report, it was so defamatory toward me - it would have been an act of pure legal insanity to show it to me.

    So... after some further discussion, the Warranty Manager told me he would personally email me a recreated version of the report.

    And yes - he did in fact email me ... yet... amazingly - there is no attachment.
    It's a completely blank email entitled: FYI.

    I must admit, I'm utterly livid and furious.

  17. #657

  18. #658

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork View Post
    He told me that a new rear wheel would be sent out to the store for free as "an act of goodwill".
    This is commonly done where a supplier/shop does not admit warranty or fault, but wants the problem to go away because it is causing them too much time/money/aggravation.

    "Do I understand that my warranty is void and I'm now effectively black-listed from the store?"
    I think you would have a very, very good chance of successfully contesting the former through NSW Fair Trading because blaming the MonkeyLectrics is conjecture without clear evidence. The latter -- yes, sounds like the shop guy has cracked it and refuses to deal with you any more. Your contract is with the shop so you could hassle him more for warranty, but it looks like Avanti is willing to deal direct with you to keep the warring parties at bay.
    "He could already picture the YouTube page…and, underneath the little video pane, the first of many thousands of all-capital-letter comments sent in by all the world's useless fuckwits." --Neal Stephenson, Reamde

  19. #659
    melbmac's Avatar melbmac is offline Not banned yet....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClockWork View Post
    Yes - thank you melbmac - hangdog jumped in a week ago and gave me the directions =)
    Thought you were trying to track down their "head office" not just their online support page details..

    Anyway, given the latest update I'd grab my new wheel and move on from these clowns, way more stress than it's worth by the sounds of it.

  20. #660
    ClockWork's Avatar ClockWork is offline I'm the Urban Spaceman, baby

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    Situation appears to have been sorted.
    New wheel arrived Thursday.
    I'm guessing that head office of Avanti came to the conclusion that if I chose to take this to Fair Trading, the bracket verses spokes argument would totally flop, as there is absolutely no logical link between the two parts - nor could it be considered to be a gross alteration or modification of a part.

    However, I still don't know if my warranty is void or if I'm still black-listed, because they say that they can't tell me - which is something I could still contest if I could be bothered - however, as long as that ball-sack is still working at the Top Ryde branch, I have no desire to step in there.
    Lorks! Oh lordy! My bottom's on fire!!
    [Joan of Arc -
    1431]

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