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  1. 29th August 2011, 07:43 PM #1
    dave2889
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    Default Power Mac G4 Startup Issues

    I have a PowerMac G4 (350 MHz AGP model), with both relatively new 10.4.11 and 9.2.2 installations on the same 160 GB hard drive* which for the most part works OK. But sometimes, mainly when I am switching between OS 9 and OS X, or when I happen to have a CD or DVD in the optical drive (even if it’s non-bootable) I’ll get the folder icon with the alternating Finder icon/question mark indicating no system software has been found, and then I’ll have to unplug the computer from the power outlet before it’ll boot as normal. This has been going on for a while now, and I have no idea why. Not sure whether it’s a hard drive, firmware or logic board issue. I have tried resetting the PRAM/NVRAM, and the hard drive is also not recognized when I start up while pressing the Option key when this happens. This is getting frustrating; any help on this is greatly appreciated.

    *Recognized as 127 GB due to hardware limitations
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  2. 29th August 2011, 10:43 PM #2
    JimWOz
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    Make sure that the disk is selected in the Startup Disk Pref Pane.

    And also investigate the bless command in terminal. - I seem to recall this helps with the older OS's.
    MB C2D 2.4 Black, MB2.0 Black, PBG4/15/1.5GHz, PMG4 MDD Dual 1GHz Server, iMacG3/333MHz-"Tangerine Queen"-decommissioning soon, Epson Stylus 1200, HP LJ2200dN, HP LJ5200N, HP Proliant ML115 Ubuntu Raid 1 Samba Server, Airport Extreme, Airport Express, Netgear 10/100 8 Port, Motorola Surfboard Cable modem. In the closet: HP DC7600 PC, PBG4/12/867MHz, PBG3/333 Bronze, PM6200, PB5300C, SE30, SE.
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  3. 30th August 2011, 02:48 AM #3
    dave2889
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    What is this bless command?
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  4. 30th August 2011, 09:12 AM #4
    JimWOz
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2889 View Post
    What is this bless command?
    Remember, Google is always your friend... Try this for starters.
    MB C2D 2.4 Black, MB2.0 Black, PBG4/15/1.5GHz, PMG4 MDD Dual 1GHz Server, iMacG3/333MHz-"Tangerine Queen"-decommissioning soon, Epson Stylus 1200, HP LJ2200dN, HP LJ5200N, HP Proliant ML115 Ubuntu Raid 1 Samba Server, Airport Extreme, Airport Express, Netgear 10/100 8 Port, Motorola Surfboard Cable modem. In the closet: HP DC7600 PC, PBG4/12/867MHz, PBG3/333 Bronze, PM6200, PB5300C, SE30, SE.
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  5. 30th August 2011, 11:49 AM #5
    dave2889
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    Would that command work with a system that has only one partition? OS 9 and OS X are installed on the same partition.
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  6. 30th August 2011, 03:28 PM #6
    Byrd
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    Sounds also like your PRAM battery (a 3.6V 1/2 size AA NiMH battery) is dead, and not keeping the startup disk preference saved in the PRAM. Ideally if you regularly run OS 9/X, I'd partition the hard disk into two and install the OS onto one partition on its own.

    JB
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  7. 31st August 2011, 01:34 AM #7
    dave2889
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    PRAM battery tests at 3.68 volts, so it's not that.
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  8. 31st August 2011, 08:46 AM #8
    JimWOz
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2889 View Post
    Would that command work with a system that has only one partition? OS 9 and OS X are installed on the same partition.
    Yes, it will.
    I have seen a short delay on my MacBook, with the folder ? icon flash, before finding a valid system and booting, if a system is not selected in the Startup Disk Pref Pane. - I would make sure of this first. This occurred when I swapped HD's I think, so the volumes present were not the same as the previously selected startup disk.

    Byrd's idea about the PRAM battery was good. As a further test of the battery, maybe leave the machine unplugged from the mains for an hour or two, and see if it has remembered the date and time.
    MB C2D 2.4 Black, MB2.0 Black, PBG4/15/1.5GHz, PMG4 MDD Dual 1GHz Server, iMacG3/333MHz-"Tangerine Queen"-decommissioning soon, Epson Stylus 1200, HP LJ2200dN, HP LJ5200N, HP Proliant ML115 Ubuntu Raid 1 Samba Server, Airport Extreme, Airport Express, Netgear 10/100 8 Port, Motorola Surfboard Cable modem. In the closet: HP DC7600 PC, PBG4/12/867MHz, PBG3/333 Bronze, PM6200, PB5300C, SE30, SE.
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  9. 31st August 2011, 03:11 PM #9
    dave2889
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    Sometimes it does flash for a second before booting. Not very often, though, Usually just refuses to boot at all.

    I always unplug the power strip under my desk every night, and yes the machine does remember date and time.

    I've just had the icon come up just while trying to boot up into OSX and again while restarting OSX, didn't touch System Startup at all. Had to unplug again. Seems to be happening more often now
    Last edited by dave2889; 31st August 2011 at 07:58 PM.
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  10. 1st September 2011, 11:57 AM #10
    stewiesno1
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    Whats the state of your hard drive ?
    Can you boot up from an the Tiger CD/DVD and test it in Disk Utility?

    Stewie
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  11. 1st September 2011, 01:33 PM #11
    dave2889
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    It passed verification. I have a spare logic board+processor laying around. Just out of curiosity, I'm going to swap that in, see if I get the same problem.

    EDIT: Didn't fix it at all. I'm going to back up my hard drive and reformat to see if that fixes it.
    Last edited by dave2889; 1st September 2011 at 02:21 PM.
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  12. 1st September 2011, 05:38 PM #12
    dave2889
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    It seems to be fixed now that I put OS 9 and OS X on two separate partitions, as Byrd suggested. I've restarted several times, and it boots up each time. Perhaps having both OSes on the same partition was confusing the system into not booting.

    Thanks for everyones help!
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  13. 1st September 2011, 06:34 PM #13
    dotnet
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    I'm having the same problem with a G4 iMac. After replacing the original 80GB disk with a 160GB one (that's all I could get at the time) the iMac will not restart anymore but show the folder/question mark thingie. I have to turn it off before it will boot. It always starts up fine from off.

    Cheers
    Steffen.
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  14. 1st September 2011, 08:31 PM #14
    Byrd
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    Hi dotnet,

    you might want to go inside the double check that the drive isn't jumpered for master/slave; I think you just need to set it as "CS" (cable select) to do it's thing. Might be the reason why you can't turn it off, as it continually keeps polling the IDE bus looking for something to boot from ...
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